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Originally Posted by chuff

Dude, I'm not going to B.S. you. I've noticed. Your defensive and angery at some of us for trying to help you out.

That being said, you recognize this is a negative trait you have. You can fix it.

First women go for guys with confidence and personality over looks. Howard Stern doens't have women show up to his studio willing to undress because he's a great looking guy.

You come off as angry, short, and defensive in these posts so I imagine that is evident in your life as well. That is what is going to turn off a woman. Not your looks.

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Okay, what you say is fair and may be valid... but negative attitude is not the reason I've been unsuccessful at going after women. I'm not always angry, short and defensive. Sure, sometimes I am, but usually it's actually directed at my mother. In fact, I'll have to admit that I generally am angry, short and defensive with my mother. Even if she's just asking me a simple question, I take on this negative attitude with her, and I'm not sure why. But I'm not like this to others in general.

I don't disagree with you that having confidence is very important, and average or even below average looking guys with confidence can get good women. However, I don't think you would disagree that being good looking certainly doesn't hurt.

Whatever the case, yes, confidence is an issue for me when dealing with girls. I am not confident and assertive, and this is a large reason why I have been unsuccessful with going after the women I have liked.

Perhaps this is something that I can or should get counselling on as well, but it's not the main issue at hand at the moment.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Soul, You come off as very intelligent, but you have no empathy. You must feel what another is going thru and be willing to give of yourself to do what it takes to make them happy. No clinical definition will take the place of feeling what your partner is about. You have explained and analyzed everything that is written, but the meaning of those words seem to be lost. To write off her feelings, wants, and needs, in such a cold manner and not take them to heart is disrespectful in a committed, healthy relationship. You have a lot of growing to do so get out of the books and talk to your female about your FEELINGS and HERS. And pay attention, the solution to your problems is right in front of you, work together to be healthy and happy. You have to give of yourself, and if whacking off means she can't get her 20 mins then stop it. If a counsellor helps you see how selfish you are then get one, now and take her too. It takes a lot of work to make a relationship work, so get busy.

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Okay, I do know where you're coming from on this... really, I do. In fact, I think this is pretty much the mindset of my girlfriend.

So what you are saying is that even though I don't want to have sex, I should just do it anyway because it will make her happy. However, I may be able to stand doing this for a week or even a month, but eventually it will get to the point where *I* am unhappy because I am constantly being forced to do something against my will. Is this selfish? Yes, I guess maybe it is. It's either she is unhappy because she is not getting sex, or I am unhappy because I am giving her the sex. So should I do this even though it will make me unhappy?

Once again, I have mentioned that whacking off is not the reason we don't have sex. Even if I don't masturbate, I still don't want to have sex.

Hi Soul,

Hope you don't mind me asking, but it stuck out for me big time, although I think you said you don't know the answer, but to me it is important that you do get to the root of it. Why, are you like that with your Mother? Do you know there is an old saying, don't know how much validity in it there is, but to me it can be an indicator. The saying is, you know how a boyfriend or husband or a man in general will treat you, based on the way he treats and respects his mother. Just something for you to think about. You did say you don't treat others the same way, but Soul, not a good thing with your Mother, that should be at the top of your list for when you get your councilling.

Soul, we all need a helping hand now and then. It may be best for you to first go to the sessions alone to sort out all the concerns you have, and resolve those, before getting into the relationship concerns.

I read this in the other thread, and it expresses my feelings to a T...

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Originally Posted by dboyblue85

I am not an expert but I have a little experience here. I have been married 3 years and together with my wife 5 years. We are both 30 years old. I am American and she is Danish. We got together in California 9-10-01. I was homeless at the time. Since then we have climbed literal mountains together. Pun intended and included. Seen 100's of waterfalls. Traveled 40 of the 50 states together. Been to Rome, Italy. We worked and lived closely together for years. From living with no money in a tent to now living in an apartment in Copenhagen, Denmark with a substantial account and studying in college. Never getting help. We traveled for years on the road having many adventures. We never had a great sexual attraction for each other. Part of it is a skin disorder she has that makes it difficult and painful to have. We have talked openly about it, but to no avail. Neither of us like the idea of separating. We also don't like the idea of going through life with no sexual fulfillment. But life together without sex is better than our lives apart.
Personally, our attraction has not been physical, but instead mental and emotional minus the sexual. Personally, we believe these things outlast the sexual drive when it comes to being together for the long haul.
The point in this is
1. everyones situation is unique.
2. People have to define their relationships and what is important to them for themselves.(everyone is unique)
3. If you don't have attraction for the other now then it probably won't be there later. Is that something you and your partner can live with and truly accept. IF NOT-THEN END IT NOW!. It won't get easier to end later. If you are going to go through the rest of your life feeling like your missing out than it won't work. Things will only get more complicating.

I am sure many people will not agree with me on this one, but SEX is NOT necessary for a relationship. Think of the people with physical dispositions that make sex impossible. Are they doomed to solitude for life?

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Yes, the only problem is, my girlfriend doesn't share this same line of thinking.

Okay, Soul you found someone else who shares your pain and that should make you feel as though you are not alone, however, your issues still remain. Don't you think?

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Originally Posted by Soul

Okay, what you say is fair and may be valid... but negative attitude is not the reason I've been unsuccesful at going after women. I'm not always angry, short and defensive. Sure, sometimes I am, but usually it's actually directed at my mother. In fact, I'll have to admit that I generally am angry, short and defensive with my mother. Even if she's just asking me a simple question, I take on this negative attitude with her, and I'm not sure why. But I'm not like this to others in general.
Perhaps this is something that I can or should get counselling on as well, but it's not the main issue at hand at the moment.

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I do know why and you, of course, can take this any way you wish. I had a terrible relationship with my father, from an early age onward, which left me puzzled later on about why I could never seem to tolerate him very well for a number of years. It left me impaired through no fault of my own and every single relationship I had with men in any capacity whatsoever was diminished, altered and affected by this until I took my sorry self to someone who knew what they were doing and worked it out. I will tell it to you straight -- it wasn't easy but it was a thousand percent worth it. Mother-son arrangements work exactly the same way... you only need look at how unsuccessful you've been with nearly all living women to begin to see it - only ones on paper are safe enough for you and that speaks volumes to me. Sad volumes that should not have turned out like that.

Now if you are interested in how to select a counselor that is capable of that kind of deep and rewarding work, let me know as I have lots to say about that - for you not just any counselor will do. But I would ask before that for your intellect to factor in this very relevant fact: It takes living free of it to really understand what a prisoner you once were. Before that you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. If we can agreee on that, then the rest of what I have to say might make sense.

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Hi Soul,

Hope you don't mind me asking, but it stuck out for me big time, although I think you said you don't know the answer, but to me it is important that you do get to the root of it. Why, are you like that with your Mother? Do you know there is an old saying, don't know how much validity in it there is, but to me it can be an indicator. The saying is, you know how a boyfriend or husband or a man in general will treat you, based on the way he treats and respects his mother. Just something for you to think about. You did say you don't treat others the same way, but Soul, not a good thing with your Mother, that should be at the top of your list for when you get your councilling.

Soul, we all need a helping hand now and then. It may be best for you to first go to the sessions alone to sort out all the concerns you have, and resolve those, before getting into the relationship concerns.

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Yeah, I thought that probably would stick out, so I definitely don't mind addressing it.

As I said, I am not completely sure why I am like that with my mother. I'm thinking one POSSIBLE reason might be because I really resented how she forced me to get a university degree. After the first year or two, I was sure that wasn't what I wanted to do, and would have preferred going to a technical/trade school instead. Basically, I felt forced to spend the next three years doing something I didn't want to do in order to get my degree, and those three years was possibly the most unpleasant I've had in my life.

Okay, I will bring this up for my personal counselling.

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Okay, Soul you found someone else who shares your pain and that should make you feel as though you are not alone, however, your issues still remain. Don't you think?

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Well, yes, of course... I was just saying what he expressed is how I feel completely. However, it only works if both people feel the same way.

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Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

I do know why and you, of course, can take this any way you wish. I had a terrible relationship with my father, from an early age onward, which left me puzzled later on about why I could never seem to tolerate him very well for a number of years. It left me impaired through no fault of my own and every single relationship I had with men in any capacity whatsoever was diminished, altered and affected by this until I took my sorry self to someone who knew what they were doing and worked it out. I will tell it to you straight -- it wasn't easy but it was a thousand percent worth it. Mother-son arrangements work exactly the same way..... you only need look at how unsuccessful you've been with nearly all living women to begin to see it - only ones on paper are safe enough for you and that speaks volumes to me. Sad volumes that should not have turned out like that.

Now if you are interested in how to select a counselor that is capable of that kind of deep and rewarding work, let me know as I have lots to say about that - for you not just any counselor will do. But I would ask before that for your intellect to factor in this very relevent fact: It takes living free of it to really understand what a prisoner you once were. Before that you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. If we can agreee on that, then the rest of what I have to say might make sense.

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Please do share your knowledge on how I should select the right counsellor to deal with this issue.

Honestly, I don't REALLY want to be this way with my mother... and in reality, I don't consciously feel bitter anymore that she forced me to get a token university degree, but I just fine myself unconsciously still automatically being like that with her all the time.

Hmm, now that I think of it, another thing that has bothered me about her is that she always snoops into my stuff, looking at my credit card statements and all that. One of the things I definitely will need to do is get a lock for my room door.

Do you still live at home? And if so, if you don't mind me asking, why?

Yes - that's a little weird. More stuff unfolds.

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Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

Do you still live at home? And if so, if you don't mind me asking, why?

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Yes, I do still live at home.

Although I had never officially moved out, I was really living at my girlfriend's place for the last four and a half years. I sleep there every night, and I don't go home for days at a home. I go to work from her place, and go right there after work. She lives with her mom as well.

Just last week, my girlfriend actually moved to another town three hours drive away to take a job promotion, so I have just recently gone back to really living at home.

Why do I still live at home?

Unofficial answer, because it's the Chinese way.

Official answer, mostly because of financial reasons.

Just in the past year, I have started making enough such that I COULD move out on my own if I wanted to, but I personally don't feel there's enough reason for me to do that at this point.

My parents don't care to have me leave their home, and I don't particular care to move out either.

Thank you for answering my questions.

About the counselor - I have been to quite a few counselors over my years (I was at one time very messed up and some of it has healed very slowly) and so I was eventually able to determine which were potent and which were not. This is not to say they didn't all pace themselves for me, they did that, yes. Any ethical therapist knows when to push and when to pace. But there are some so lame, for lack of a better word, especially for intellectually sophisticated people, that its almost a waste of time and money. I would recommend to you the same criteria I use now, if you are serious about it and that is this -- you need to be with someone who you are largely comfortable with so you can talk openly but also very importantly a bit uncomfortable with too. What that little discomfort is... is your recgonition that the counselor's ability to confront you is both real and effective-- without that you can spin a lot of wheels.

About living at home: I am mindful of cultural differences and of varying individual tastes too. But I need to say there are some universal rites of passage into adulthood you may have passed (like acquiring a girlfriend and a degree) and not passed (like how you aren't on your own financially and how your sex life appears stuck somewhere in adolescence, which I believe it actually is). What a talented therapist will help with the most is for you to grow into who you were meant to be. Don't be surprised if, in the process, things like living at home become too difficult to continue. Sooner or later, all fledglings leave the nest or perish - it is the way of all life. It will mean you are ready.

I wish for you lots and lots of wonderful growing, Soul. Maybe then you will know who you are. And you will have found how very much more you have to offer, to a woman--maybe your girlfriend, maybe not-- and to the world. Otherwise your only alternative is to remain stuffed in that tight little box you're in, let go of your current girlfriend and hope that you can find a girl stuffed in her own tight little box who shares the same need for sexless intimacy. But from how I see it, that really is a shortchanged arrangement, especially since I once was there myself and am not there anymore. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to share with you. Good luck.