Let's clear the air. Yes, I stand by when I say "you sitting around waiting for her is foolish". I never said your friend bogus but I said her idea was. See the difference.

In the end it is your life and you are what you make it. So with that being said, if you feel the need to sit around and wait for her then do so. If you willing what to ignore the red flags and see her as a suitable wife then more power to you.

I know what I want and don't want in a mate. When me and my fiancé have issues we sit down and discussion them in a civil, mature matter. Nobody has temper tantrums nor runs away. And one thing for sure the "I dos" doesn't make the problems go away.

Liz28, I do agree with you and thank you for clearing the air. Sitting around waiting for someone to come back is a waste of time and life. It really hurts to move on when you don't want to. Regarding my friend, the psych, suggesting an exit counciling, is what normal people do. You got it right when you say when you have issues with your fiancée, you both sit down in a civil mature manner. That's what my psych friend was suggesting. Now Im left without any answers, drifting in the middle of the ocean, and probably not going to trust anyone else for a long time.. It seems like that's what my ex wants.. Because most normal people who care about someone they loved would not want that to happen... That's why I feel its partially a game... She will not put full closure to things such as calling my family, who bought airline tix, booked hotel, bought dresses for the kids etc.. And apologize to them why this happened. Its only fair and respectful. If I did this I would def call her family out of respect.. Also I think it's a game that she can't call to see how Im doing esp when she knows I didn't want this to end... She can't be that big of a monster can she?

Quote:

---

Now I'm left without any answers, drifting in the middle of the ocean, and probably not going to trust anyone else for a long time..

---

So don't trust her either, as given her actions as you described them, she is not trust worthy, reliable, considerate, or marriage material. Just my opinion, and maybe it was the luckiest day of your life when she called everything off.

Quote:

---

It seems like that's what my ex wants.. Because most normal people who care about someone they loved would not want that to happen...

---

Blows my mind that you didn't see what she was capable of, but for sure you do now.

Quote:

---

That's why I feel its partially a game... She will not put full closure to things such as calling my family, who bought airline tix, booked hotel, bought dresses for the kids etc.. And apologize to them why this happened.

---

That blows my mind also and gives me some insights into what you consider civility, and obviously she does. Live with that.

Quote:

---

Its only fair and respectful. If I did this I would def call her family out of respect..

---

Geez guy, you really are expecting too much here. She ain't like you, and you must have been plenty blind, or in love, or both, not to have a clue about her real nature.

Quote:

---

Also I think it's a game that she can't call to see how I'm doing esp when she knows I didn't want this to end... She can't be that big of a monster can she?

---

Why should she call you, Mr Civilized, and polished, when the game is to train you to be a loyal obedient puppy. Everything you have written smells of spoiled, manipulative brat, and maybe you're her naïve sucker.

Doesn't matter what she does any more. Man up and do the right thing and vanish fro her life and do your own apology for bringing the biatch into your family's life.

Liz is right, its foolish to expect the right things from her. I know your hurt, but don't be sensitive, or you will truly miss the point.

Talaniman, believe me when I tell you this girl had to the best actress Ive ever known. Nobody,friends or family thought she was capable of being such an a hole. Your right,Im glad I saw it now.My family and friends say the same thing as you did; she is trying to make me her obedient little puppy. I have manned up haven't contacted her for a month, still a when there is a ton of reminders everywhere you go.. I just hope that douches heart is aching just like mine, because believe me bro, I will have the last laugh.

I agree with Talniman.
Be a strong man and see the fundamental issue, do not be a 'trained' puppy for a spoiled woman who will make both of you miserable.
I have a relative who used to hide himself in his closet while his girl friend yelled at him.
He was not strong enough to move on, and married her.
He still locks up himself in the closet while his wife is yelling at him for anything. Forever...
Nobody has sympathy anymore because he 'chose' to be miserable.

I really do appreciate the support on this site.. What she did and is doing is deplorable I know this but what I didn't say was out of 60 days with her, 59/60 would be bliss and that one day, we had a really bad day where she would get so mad and impulsive that it was detrimental.. A lot of you are right on when you say she is a spoiled controlling brat.. Its really hard to tell the heart to shut off from someone that for the most part was a decent loving person, who had a flaw.. Nobody is perfect is how I saw it.. Im sure she could give plenty of examples of how Im not perfect either.. As crazy as it seems I do want her back, but it would be under the condition she gets anger management help, or we seek counciling on how to effectively argue. Im with Liz who has it right by sitting down in a calm controlled mature manner to discuss a problem... That's how it should be.. My ex shouldve discussed and not threatened me with the idea of calling off the wedding, I had no say in the matter.. Her impulsiveness got in the way of sensibility. Have a great day all..

Here's another example of how confused I am about my ex... Her mail stopped coming to my house, so one day Im opening my mail and I noticed a large amount check, it wasn't for me it was hers.. So I broke the no contact rule and sent her a text saying in a really light manner"hey hows it going hope all is well, you got a check here what should I do with it?"She texts me back very matter of factly asking me to mail it to her work. Coldly, says thanks but no "How are you doing? Hope your ok" etc.. Im sitting here saying, I couldve just thrown it away and she'd be out 1800 bucks. After 2 months how can she be mad or cold to someone she was going to marry? Any explanation other than her being a or just plain rude?

Well, pslayne, it sounds like she isn't a very good person from everything you have told us. She seems like a very unhappy person, unhappy with herself and she is doing you a favor but leaving you. Who knows, you might have been miserable after you got married. They say that marriage really changes people.

Just follow your heart, and your mind. If you feel that she is worth waiting for, do it. Otherwise, just try and move on with your life. There are plenty of women out there that would like to be with a guy as caring as you seem to be. Trust me, I know.

Quote:

---

That's how it should be.. My ex shouldve discussed and not threatened me with the idea of calling off the wedding, I had no say in the matter.. Her impulsiveness got in the way of sensibility. Have a great day all..

---

The basis for a relationship is grounded in a commitment to be WILLING to work with your partner, to resolve their issue. You were willing, she was not, hmmmm!

Obviously she isn't willing, which leads me to at least consider, she was being nice, and for whatever reason went along with you, but in the end, changed her mind.

Or she showed her true self, and your not willing to accept it, and have overlooked her character in the past

Or a bit of BOTH!

Talaniman your def making strong points but that's not the whole picture in 3 years. She had a big big problem with my ex girlfriend texting me, other girls coming around me, my friends who were single are all dogs, for the lack of a better word. She was nervous that I would want to resort to my old lifestyle, even though I asked her to marry me.But even more importantly, I would never ever have cheated on her nor did she catch me in some suspicious situations. She wanted me to change my cell phone number because of old gf's but I felt that I shouldn't have to change my phone number because of people that meant nothing to me anymore. I figured they would just go away. But eventually I did change my number and when we got into arguments she would bring that up and say I did it too late.. She said I made her feel insecure.. Which is BS because I went way above and beyond to show her I loved her. If we had a fight where we parted for a couple of days, it was always me who initiated contact and said I was sorry.. So I think that is where she is now,. she says she has to find herself and become more secure but can't do that with me for some reason? She says she has to fix her and some rage she's had before she met me.. Let me know what you think minus some of the cynicism.. HAHA!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pslayne2233

..Nobody is perfect is how I saw it.. Im sure she could give plenty of examples of how Im not perfect either.. As crazy as it seems I do want her back, but it would be under the condition she gets anger management help, or we seek counciling on how to effectively argue. ?

---

Absolutely.
People got mad sometimes for various reasons, but should be reasonable. She burst her anger, and "could" yell non stop in public without respect or consideration for fiancé who is supposed to be the most important person in her life, it is a very bad red flag. You can seek a way to change her, if she is willing to participate, but you said she would not do it for you or your future marriage. Actually, She is going to the opposite direction and called off the wedding.
If she does not motivated to change her anger mgmt, can you really make her change? Have you ever heard the old phrase "never make your partner as a project"? Because it is hard to change people.
She has so much pride and ego, it will be even harder to change it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pslayne2233

..After 2 months how can she be mad or cold to someone she was gonna marry?? Any explanation other than her being a or just plain rude?

---

Sometimes, I have a small disagreement with my husband, but we both face each other ASAP, say sorry for "misunderstanding", and make peace right away. We are in love, we are willing to meet in the middle with respect.(If I did not respect him, or his judgment, I would not marry him, and I have to reconsider his view point even though it makes me not happy initially. Right?) The last thing we like to do is hurt ourselves by hurting each other even for an hour. In fact, each reconsolidation makes our love deeper. Can you see the difference here? I hate to say but it seems she does not love you (or love you enough) to make a life time commitment beyond respect, argument style, or anger mgmt etc.

I can see you love her so much. You might have many sleepless nights already and played the 'bad day' repeatedly in your mind, and confused about your decision. It seems you are very sweet person. You concerned you made her insecure with ex-gf matter unexpectedly. (I do not buy it. You made life time commitment, and it should not be a matter at this point.)She might be under stress for wedding plan besides of her demanding job. She might be in PM or under birth control pill. There are hundreds of reasons you can think of to justify her, however, the bottom line is she should be reasonable, or if she was not, then has to come back and make it up to you at least. She has not done or a plan to do it so far. It is the bigger problem.

You like to hear that she should be hurtful now. Yes, it is true. Who doesn't when the wedding is off? However,
1) she created the issue
2) she called the wedding off to punish you by herself
3) she knows both are hurtful
4) BUT still her desire to mold you in her way is much stronger than coming back to your arms & get married.
5) she is using the wedding as the reinforcement to train you at this point

In love, we are all weak. We do not need logic/power game/brain, but simply want to be with the person and be happy even though he/she has fault. However, she is cold, furious, and punishing you in order to take control of you.

How can you make your marriage work if her self-destructive, unreasonable, and hurtful logic is empowering her love and hurt both of you? Do you have enough love to be 100% in her way, apologize for anything you did not do wrong to make her happy whenever conflict arises? Then you should turn off your self-esteem switch completely, and run after her.
The problem is still
1) it is questioning if she will forgive (?? ) you & marry you until you prove you know how to press the right button to please her as a 100% loyal partner
2) even though you successfully pass her stress test (!) & get married, it will be very difficult to maintain your marriage happy, because once she knows her power over you, she will require more extreme or get board after for a while. It will be a typical powerful wife with a no self-esteem husband combination, she will loose respect and interest from you very quickly, frustrated, and be more controlling. It will be a bad cycle.

Once again, if I am you, I will do my best to regain the full respect & love from her. Otherwise, I will forget about the marriage, and move on. Do not caught up with the idea of getting married, and focus on the "goal" of the marriage. I think it is a good idea to be cool with NC, and take a control as a man. You have to let her know you are not a easy cookie. She is a good catch in your eyes, so as you in her eyes. Be confident! She did not want to let go completely, and you are in better shape than you think.

What can you loose? In worst case, you will lose the possible bad marriage. In best case, you will get a 'trained' brainy wife who will make the marriage workable. Win-Win situation. FYI. I guess you know we are here to help you to see the truth objectively, not harsh on you over your agony.

Winding 200 thank you very much for the encouragement and the help.. You know when I think of it, every time we've had a bad fight, it was I who always was the one to reconcile. Some arguments, she would come to her senses and talk things over. But the big ones, were always me. It is a win win situation for me, I lose a quick tempered irrational person, or she will come back with enough respect to at least meet me half way in disagreements. Just a question, is it obvious that she didn't want to let go completely and Im not seeing it, because she has not tried to contact me in any form. Please embellish on how Im in better shape than I think... I tend to think of worse case scenarios and live off them... Thanks again for taking the time to help and responding!

Of course you are in better shape now. You don't have to bow down to move forward, you can make decisions without thinking of her first. Take the time to grieve for this part of your life darlin, but be willing to see the things that weren't so great as well. It sounds an awful lot like you were doing all the compromising and she didn't do much. Maybe now you can do a little for yourself.

Im just shocked,well maybe I shouldn't be seeing that she is showing her true colors as a very selfish person, that she has not tried to reach out not for reconciliation, but just to see how Im doing as a person. Or an old friend for that matter. This can't be just because this is she is trying to control me, can it? Reflecting back there have been situations where she may have displayed those qualities of trying to manipulate to get control. But this one is the mother of all manipulation, if that's the case. There is no doubt in my mind that she was deeply in love with me so that can't be the answer. I feel that she has so much egg on her face from overreacting and calling off the wedding that she has to follow through with what she's doing or she is going to look even crazier, of course all at my expense and feelings. Everywhere Ive read says the No Contact rule really works, displaces their anger with feelings of missing you, at the same time getting control over your own feelings. She broke it off with me, by all means she should contact me, me mot contacting her in any situation right? Or is that just playing a manipulative game? Thanks again everyone!.

Quote:

---

Everywhere Ive read says the No Contact rule really works, displaces their anger with feelings of missing you, at the same time getting control over your own feelings.

---

You are not correct, as NO CONTACT is for YOU to gain perspective, NOT for her to miss you.

Quote:

---

She broke it off with me, by all means she should contact me, me not contacting her in any situation right?

---

You need to get your own self together, whether she tries to contact you or not. Stop trying to rationalize her behavior with your own sense of what she should be doing. Its about what you should be doing with the facts you have. She dumped you. That's the fact. Now get through the feelings and cope with them.

Quote:

---

Or is that just playing a manipulative game? Thanks again everyone!.

---

Since your right there, and know her, how do you expect us to know what she is motivated by? For all we know, she may be tired of the way your acting, or has just had a change in heart. Her motives are not as important as how you deal with them. That's the point, not the questions with no answers, but the actions you take, which is obvious as you get over your shock, and let your emotional dust settles.

Talinamin you said in an earlier post is that she is manipulating me to be the loyal obedient puppy on a leash.. If you could say that then why do you feel you(we) can't tell me or suggest to me what her motives could be? Some girls do that passive aggressive behavior just to see if your still into them correct? But wrong I agree. Also, absence makes the heart grow fonder so why wouldn't the no contact work? It also reliquishes some control because she has to be thinking where did my little puppy go right? Puts perspective for me as well.. Are you a trained professional or just been through the ringer a few times, because you have great insight

As I said I work in the medical field and have never fully agreed with psychiatrists or psychologists. I went to one for the 1st time and all she said was I don't know to everything. FOS. I asked her haven't you dealt with many cases similar to mine that you should have an idea, she said I don't know.. That was my final session.. My point is Im finding more insight than a schoooled professional.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pslayne2233

Just a question, is it obvious that she didnt want to let go completely and Im not seeing it, because she has not tried to contact me in any form.

---

So, here we go.
1) You say that there was no issue, but the day's incident caused the breakup. In case, it is a fairy simple & girly power game even though it is very brutal. The wedding is the hostage for dramatic effect.

2) She called off the wedding, but refused to give you closure. It means she does not want you to be clean and go out for date. She is holding you tight while she is debating. What she actually saying is "I will be possible for a while, catch me in my way if you do not want to loose me."
She uses NC, and it gives you frustration. You report to her your pain in a 'half way' NC, and it proves her strategy is working. Again, it is stress test to train you not actual break.

3) D-Day: Even better, you have a W-day which will be the explosion point for her. If she does not hear from you until that point, she will be really furious and worried. Her plan is not losing the years of investment on you, but winning you as loyal one. By the time, she will contact you in any form, and you will have a good chance to talk it over. Expect more fighting & twisted drama at this point. She will not just come out and say sorry, and it will be very hurtful for both of you until she has no choice but give in 'after find the right excuses to save her face' or you have to give in finally.

Your max pain for NC will be until the wedding day, I guess.

4) Although you will go through heart wrenching dramas, I see you guys will marry if you still have strong will.

5) The last, you are in a better shape because you are away from the turbulence & her control, and re-shaping your plans for your better future by yourself.

Organize your belief and 'MUST HAVE' list in the relationship. You need to sit tight, be calm, and tell what you want from her persistently. If you can be patient, you will gain the girl who has to respect you without choice. Otherwise, you will lose the possible bad & irrational marriage. Win win situation.

My question is, how much you want to play the game. She is wasting the energy from both of you to fight not nurture the love itself. In my opinion, even though you win 'the wedding' game, you will need a lot of patience to make it work in the life long journey. If you loose you patience as she does, the marriage will be nothing but turbulence. If children is involved in the situation, it will be really destructive. What is your strategy to deal with her if she uses sex, cold treatment, children or all of above to constantly train you in the marriage in case?

I feel tired already and I am not sure I want to be in it if I am a man if I want to be happy... In general, bride-to-be is very happy in the period, lost in euphoria, and rarely call the wedding off unless there is a REALLY serious issue. She is a forceful fighter type. I guess you are attracted to a strong woman.

Winding200
Awesome insight.. wow Im so impressed how bright a lot of the people are on this sight.. I have been giving full NC have not spoken or tried to call her or any other contact as brutal as its been since June 19th. So are you suggesting that I contact her and be persistent?"You need to sit tight, be calm, and tell what you want from her persistently." Im pretty sure her real serious issue as to why she called it off is because she felt I would eventually leave her and uses leaving her at the restaurant when she was causing a scene.Its almost like she is forcing a self fulfilled prophecy. She was afraid I would leave and she pushed a situation so to that would happen. Also, Im not sure if you read the thread about how I sent her a text(the only 1in a 6 weeks) about a large amount check she got in the mail.. I texted her very nonchalantly and cordial telling her about the check and I said I hope alls well.. She only texted me back where to mail it, which was her work. Never said I hope your OK too, never asked a thing about me. Don't you find that awfully weird to be that standoffish to someone you dated for 3 years and live with for 1 and about to be married in 3 months? Was that a game or could someone just fall out of love like that and not care? Thank you so much for your advice.. As I said before, this site has been incredibly helpful.. Much appreciated..

Quote:

---

So are you suggesting that I contact her and be persistent?

---

I did a big puzzle for you, you will work on the details.
If I am you, I will wait, and talk to her JUST AFTER she contact you by the W-Day. She will really need to talk it over, and it is the best time to negotiate. Right now, she is treating you with 'brutal treatment', your communication will not be effective. If you keep the NC loner, she has to talk to you by W-Day, because her cold treatment period will be expired after that.

Last text over check:
OK. I got it. You were in NC indeed. Even though you helped out to get the check, you were not apologetic enough to satisfy her, she could not forgive you, and was so cold. Her focus is on power & control, not love & caring anymore. As I said, it is very brutal power game, and she is planning not to loose it or change herself so far.

Quote:

---

Im pretty sure her real serious issue as to why she called it off is because she felt I would eventually leave her and uses leaving her at the restaurant when she was causing a scene.Its almost like she is forcing a self fulfilled prophecy.

---

You think it is totally unreasonable to extend the restaurant scene that much.
Here is my interpretation using unspoken word in her side.

"I(your ex) feel you would eventually leave me if I am nasty in marriage & I maybe be nasty in marriage helplessly without control, because you COULD leave me at the restaurant. I need to know you would be with me, take any treatment I give you in marriage anywhere & anyhow. It does not matter who's fault it is. If you COULD leave me in restaurant, you are not totally blinded by LOVE, and I cannot control you fully. Show me I have full control over you. I am not planning to change my attitude. You change yourself for me. Otherwise, it is over."

Your ex is not simply short tempered person, but has a strong will to escalate it to the largest scale to get what she wants. If she wanted to be reasonable, she did not have to call the wedding off. Have you ever thought if it was not only one time 'hot temper', but she finally lost her patience unexpectedly before W-day? She has worked hard to make the relationship, but could not be patient anymore, gave up, and walked out? Once again, if she was simply short tempered person,
1) she would not escalate it that level
2) she would regret (short temper = emotional. In the case she would change her mood frequently)
3) she would try to talk it over with love
3) or she would come back long time ago (or did not leave)

Winding 200, I think you are right again about the power control 100%.. The one thing Im starting to believe which Im sure anyone who goes through the NC, is that the other person just does not care anymore, especially if they haven't made contact by then. Im not sure the W day is as important to her as I would like to think. Im getting the impression she is happy our relationship is over.. As for the check incident your dead on again, I was loose and casual, and she was trying to portray that I was just a nothing stranger to her. As for restaurant scene, again so accurate. This is not the first time she has tried to exert control over me using her temper and escalation. She is an exceptionally unreasonable person when she hits that red zone of her temper, completely irrational and rather immature. I really believe that because of the fact she told her family of the incident and they told her they do not support our relationship, hence this is why she moved on and hasn't looked back thus far. You are confident that she will try to contact me at some point? I guess if she doesn't , our relationship was a farce and I really didn't lose anything but lost an actor of false love. You wrote "If you COULD leave me in restaurant, you are not totally blinded by LOVE, and I cannot control you fully. Show me I have full control over you. I am not planning to change my attitude. You change yourself for me. Otherwise, it is over." Couldn't be any closer to exactly how she has been in our relationship! Thanks for your brilliant insight again.