Quote:

---

Originally Posted by forksandspoons

Actually, it was answered. I feel like all you see are the numbers 21, and 14, because you have overlooked certain things.

I didnt know her age at first. When I did, I told her we had to stop talking, and we did for a week.

I also said, that if I get a no go from her parents, I would back off.

What is your real objection? Can't you see I care for her?

---

What was answered? How you met? I don't see it, can you please repeat it or reference the post #?

I don't think anyone is overlooking anything. What you fail to understand is we have to go on our experience. And our experience says that an adult having a relationship with a child almost always is wrong and doesn't go well. Will you be the exception? It's possible and I think we are allowing for that possibility.

But the fact remains, that even once you knew her age you reinstated contact WITHOUT talking to her parents FIRST. That to me is objectionable.

And you complain about us not listening to you, but you aren't listening to us. I think most of the responses here have been clear. If you want to continue with this relationship, you get her parents on board before you do ANYTHING more. Whatever our personal feeling about this, it is her parents who have control here. And that has been the consistent message given.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by forksandspoons

Thank you for your input judy. There is no sense in us going back and forth. I will never convince you, and thats ok. I dont expect everyone to approve. As a matter of fact, I am very pleased with the amount of support I have got. I was expecting nothing but responses like frchuck. I appreciate you all for hearing me out, and I hope her parents give me the same chance.

There seems to be quite a few intelligent people here. I will be sure to return. Anymore feedback in the meantime would be appreciated.

---

Here's a thought - answer a direct question and see if you change my mind. You did read that I have asked you several times where/how you met and where/how you met after that?

I assume you feel that the only intelligent people here are those who agree that there is no problem with your relationship as it stands?

Based on this response, your failure to answer direct questions and your general tone I do think you and the 14 year old are on the same emotional/maturity level.

FIRST POST

"I told her I want to meet her parents and ask for their approval before getting more serious."

Was that not clear?

And yea, adult/child relationships usually don't work. I am up against a lot of prejudice, and will turn people against me if her parents give me the green light. Ive thought long and hard about it, and I decided I am up for the challenge. I will take the scrutiny that comes along with, and try my hardest to prove them wrong, for her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by forksandspoons

FIRST POST

"I told her I want to meet her parents and ask for their approval before getting more serious."

Was that not clear?

And yea, adult/child relationships usually dont work. I am up against a lot of prejudice, and will turn people against me if her parents give me the green light. Ive thought long and hard about it, and I decided I am up for the challenge. I will take the scrutiny that comes along with, and try my hardest to prove them wrong, for her.

---

People have told me a lot of things. It's actions that speak volumes, not words.

You still don't remember where and how you met her?

So - you told a 14 year old that you want to meet her parents but for whatever reason you have not but you are still in contact AND go to her dance recitals to "see" her? Sounds to me like she's a typical 14-year old. The less her parents know, the better.

I'd do less asking and more doing. I keep hearing about your good intentions BUT the relationship has been "on" for some time (apparently) and all "we" hear are good intentions. Keep procrastinating and she'll be "legal" by the time you speak with her parents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by forksandspoons

FIRST POST

"I told her I want to meet her parents and ask for their approval before getting more serious."

Was that not clear?

And yea, adult/child relationships usually dont work. I am up against a lot of prejudice, and will turn people against me if her parents give me the green light. Ive thought long and hard about it, and I decided I am up for the challenge. I will take the scrutiny that comes along with, and try my hardest to prove them wrong, for her.

---

Nope its not clear enough. What you should have said is; "I want to meet her parents and ask for their approval before we do ANYTHING more." The more contact you have with her before getting her parents approval, the harder it makes for the parents to approve. If I were in their shoes I would see an adult trying to start a relationship with a child behind my back. And I would cut it off.

"Here's a thought - answer a direct question and see if you change my mind. You did read that I have asked you several times where/how you met and where/how you met after that?"I said, a friend of a friend. We were at a picnic party. Saw her the next day as well and learned of her age. Since then Ive been calling her.

I assume you feel that the only intelligent people here are those who agree that there is no problem with your relationship as it stands?

Thank you for your input judy. There is no sense in us going back and forth. I will never convince you, and thats ok. Yes. You are correct.

Based on this response, your failure to answer direct questions and your general tone I do think you and the 14 year old are on the same emotional/maturity level.
Are you serious? What is wrong with you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by forksandspoons;2925894

Based on this response, your failure to answer direct questions and your general tone I do think you and the 14 year old are on the same emotional/maturity level.[/I

Are you serious? What is wrong with you?

---

Nothing is wrong with me. That's why I'm not posting questions like this on an open forum.

If you don't want to continue the conversation stop responding.

First, thank you for supplying how you met. I don't recall reading that previously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by forksandspoons

Based on this response, your failure to answer direct questions and your general tone I do think you and the 14 year old are on the same emotional/maturity level.
Are you serious? What is wrong with you?

---

Again, you are close to the line here. I don't see anything wrong with Judy's read here. I've been saying similar. I will, again, remind you to be polite and civil.

It's already been said in one way or another but I can tell you, if a 21 year old guy came to me wanting to have a relationship with my 14 year old daughter, well... My first response would not be all that friendly and if I found it continuing anyway, I would do anything I could to put a stop to it. I don't care what the intentions are or how wonderful and super the guy is. 14 is still just a kid and there is no business for an adult guy to be dealing with a kid that age... doesn't matter what the reasons.

I also agree with Judy... most of the people that agree with you probably don't have kids. Once you have kids, you look at things completely differently than you do before kids.

I find it amusing that you came on here and started this (and your very first post was defensive right off the bat) and you're all pissed off at the responses you got from some people... not to mention that you keep saying you don't need to defend yourself. Really?

We've asked about your cultural background. I know that being from a 100% German background has colored my feelings and attitudes about things, even though I'm a fourth-generation German-American, so am totally American.

Am curious about you -- and also about the girl. I know from doing counseling how important culture can be in a relationship and how it can affect families getting along with other families. Could cultural differences become a stumbling block for you and your future with this girl?

I haven't demonstrated that I am pissed whatsoever. I thanked those who agreed, and disagreed with me. Not sure what you are getting at.

Wondergirl, you have been the most helpful person here. {Insults removed}

She is part Puerto Rican, Italian, and German.

I am half Italian, half german.

Her hispanic genes are not very apparent.

Don't play stupid... I can read. I read this thread. I can see what you wrote and how you got mad at Fr_Chuck and jumped Judy a few posts back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by forksandspoons

Thank you for remaining objective and reasonable.

---

You're welcome -- must be my Teutonic pragmatism at work.

Quote:

---

She is part Puerto Rican, Italian, and German.

I am half Italian, half german.

---

That sounds like a good meeting of cultural norms and beliefs. What other commonalities do the two of you have -- things that could be advantages that would help you as you build a case to present to her parents?

Would there be opportunities for both families to get together and do things together?

Let me tell you a story about a young teen girl. Years ago when I was fourteen or so, I idolized my first cousin who was (and probably still is) a very handsome guy, is well-spoken, smart, clever, was very mature and a student at Yale (so he was in his late teens or early 20s). He talked to me like I was an adult, didn't put me down or tease me, treated me respectfully. I drooled over him almost as much as I drooled over the then heart-throb Pat Boone. (Oh, the memories!)

But then something amazing happened. I discovered boys once I started high school. To date, the only boys I had known were from my small town and were like brothers since I'd known them for years. I was with these delicious high school boys every day in class, but my cousin was around only on occasional weekends when he came to visit us from college.

My drooling for my cousin stopped as drooling over male classmates commenced. I'm guessing this will be your young lady friend's experience too.

That sounds like a good meeting of cultural norms and beliefs. What other commonalities do the two of you have-- things that could be advantages that would help you as you build a case to present to her parents?

As I said before, in the story of the girl at school that gets made fun of. It shows me that we share common values. I am very big on treating people right. We like the same kind of food, we both like video games, we like amusement parks, shopping, sports. Our idea of fun is going out and driving go carts on a Friday night or just staying home and watching a movie, not getting drunk and screwing. Our idea of a relationship is companionship, being there for each other, not sex.

Actually the oddity here is that this may work against you. It appears that you both have strong moral and ethical values. The problem this causes for you is that the likelihood is she got those values from her parents. And parents that were able to instill such values on a 14 yr old are also very unlikely to approve of this relationship.

I'm not trying to discourage from talking to them, just preparing you for disappointment.

Scott, I don't know why I can't message you. This board is very different than one I am used to. I really didn't mean to be rude. Please don't lock this as I am sincere in saying that there are smart people here and I am finding it very helpful.

That is a good point. I really don't have the highest of hopes, but I am going to do it first chance I get.

You have to be a member for a certain amount of time to send PMs.

I have found this thread mostly to be a good discussion. And I think you have gotten a lot of good advice, though you may not agree that some of it has been good. Otherwise I might have closed it already. But, your own admittedly, sharp tongue, has gotten the better of you sometimes. One of the problems we face with this medium is that we only get 30% of communication here. We miss the audio and visual cues that come with face to face communication. You have to go into this with the assumption that people are trying to help you.

For sure. I did agree with the majority of it. I didn't mean to give the impression that I was angry. I know this is serious taboo here and I have a good conscience. I am literally prepared to go to her door and be greeted with a fist to the face.

Anyway, I will definitely be back around. I found this place via Google and it was just what I was looking for. It seems most of you are older than me, educated, and some parents.

I have just re-read and find that the word "love" is thrown around very loosely.

At any rate - hopefully now OP speaks with the parents and life goes on. When he DOES speak with the parents I would leave out the part about how long he's going to wait to have sex with their daughter.

Well good luck to you and keep us posted.

Just because you have feelings for someone doesn't mean you should act on them, or allow yourself to be so carried away by them that you cross the lines of good behavior. An adult who influences a child without permission from the parents is crossing that line. Not being fully open and accountable by her parents is also crossing that line, and undermining any actions they see fit to take on this matter. That's dishonest, and deceptive, and while you say you only have the best intentions, your actions are NOT.

Leave her alone until your words and actions match, and you have spoken to her parents, because the FACT is only they can approve of any contact she has with any one. Fact is as an adult you even talking to her without their express knowledge is custodial interference, and you can be prosecuted as such.

Now you can talk of your feelings and intentions all you want, but if you ignore the very real consequences of your actions and the effect they have on a child, and the possible negative effect they will have on her relationship with her parents, then I respectfully submit you while seemingly intelligent, are not as thoughtful and mature as you should be because this is not about what you want, but about good behavior toward a child.

That's the bottom line, and I hope you have enough FACTS to make a good decision for yourself, because feelings don't count when it comes to children, and outside influences.

Leave her alone, and stop influencing someone else's child.

"Not being fully open and accountable by her parents is also crossing that line."

I am sorry, but I am sick of reading this. I have made it clear to her that I MUST have her parents approval before seeing her again. I have stated a few times that I would back off if they gave the word. I also said that not doing so would be selfish, and unfair to her, and her family. Not just parents. I do not want to cause any dysfunction in their home. I don't want them getting mad at her, and would ask them to hate me instead.

"while you say you only have the best intentions, your actions are NOT."

How is that? Was I to ask her parents permission as soon as I met her? How would we have ever known we care for each other? The whole point of meeting your partners family is to do it after the feelings develop. Otherwise it doesn't really work does it?

Our conversations are innocent and appropriate.

I am unable to explain EVERYTHING that I have thought of, because Ive given it hours of thought, and you haven't raised anything new.

What about you? Are you in a good place right now, physically as you heal and emotionally, in general? Do you want to get a bachelor's, which means you'll go back to school? (I think you mentioned that somewhere along the line.) What kind of study? Career possibilities? What about dating young women your age? Is that in the realm of possibility?

Thoughts and feelings don't amount to a hill of beans, nor do good intentions when weighed against actions that have to be taken. So until you have actually taken steps to talk to her parents then you are WRONG! The right thing to do is leave her alone and stop playing with her young mind and do the right thing.

I don't give a rats patoot how you spin this, it changes nothing, and is just you justifying bad behavior. Your spin of this situation means nothing in light of the FACTS, whether you agree or not. No more excuses. Man up, and do what's right and stop being led down a crooked path by feelings you seem unable to control. That's TROUBLE you are asking for.

I am in a very good place right now. I am just about fully healed from my medical issues. I was granted a medical withdraw last year because of it. I was unable to work and had to collect unemployment. I am now functional again and have been working full time since August.

I was working on a degree in sports administration. Career possibilities include sales, marketing, athletic directing, etc. It is basically like a business degree, with a specialty in sports. I live near Philadelphia and Reading, PA, which have large sports markets with opportunity.

I can get a girl my own age. I have had girls my own age, but I don't want any of them. They are all fake and superficial.

"So until you have actually taken steps to talk to her parents then you are WRONG!"Uhh, I agree, so what is the argument?

Talking about this here, has made me want to push her harder for a parent meet. I agree with you 100% in the quote I included.

"I can get a girl my own age. I have had girls my own age, but I dont want any of them. They are all fake and superficial."

This may be perceived wrong. I just mean that, she is great, just what I want in a girl. I haven't met a girl my age that has made me feel love. Ive had crushes, but not love.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by forksandspoons

I am sorry, but I am sick of reading this. I have made it clear to her that I MUST have her parents approval before seeing her again. I have stated a few times that I would back off if they gave the word. I also said that not doing so would be selfish, and unfair to her, and her family. Not just parents. I do not want to cause any dysfunction in their home. I dont want them getting mad at her, and would ask them to hate me instead.

"while you say you only have the best intentions, your actions are NOT."

How is that? Was I to ask her parents permission as soon as I met her? How would we have ever known we care for each other? The whole point of meeting your partners family is to do it after the feelings develop. Otherwise it doesn't really work does it?

Our conversations are innocent and appropriate.

I am unable to explain EVERYTHING that I have thought of, because Ive given it hours of thought, and you haven't raised anything new.

---

First, you opened yourself up for this by posting the question. We can only advise based on what we know of the situation.

Second, You should not even be talking to her without her parents approval. Its not just about seeing her, taking to her is an issue.

Third, no you didn't need to ask parental approval as soon as you met her. But as soon as you found out her age, you should not have made any contact with her other than to arrange parental approval. Once you decided that you felt you wanted to continue to talk to her, you should have had one conversation that went like this; I would like to remain in contact with you, but given your age, I need to get your parent's permission first. So when can I meet them?

Finally, you say your conversations are innocent and appropriate. What you aren't getting that just the FACT of your conversations without her parents approval is inappropriate.

What you aren't getting that just the FACT of your conversations without her parents approval is inappropriate.You are right. I am going to bring this up tomorrow.

Cut me some slack here. This is not a normal situation and I am doing the best I can to approach this appropriately and respectfully. Its not like there is a handbook on something like this. I never expected this to happen, it just kind of.. happened.

I may have not been perfect, but overall I think I have done well. My only real mistake was not pushing to meet her parents sooner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by forksandspoons

My only real mistake was not pushing to meet her parents sooner.

---

I disagree. Your only real mistake was not leaving her alone the MINUTE you found out how old she is.

j_9, your trolling is not appreciated, and is unnecessary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by forksandspoons

What you aren't getting that just the FACT of your conversations without her parents approval is inappropriate.You are right. I am going to bring this up tomorrow.

Cut me some slack here. This is not a normal situation and I am doing the best I can to approach this appropriately and respectfully. Its not like there is a handbook on something like this. I never expected this to happen, it just kind of..happened.

I may have not been perfect, but overall I think I have done well. My only real mistake was not pushing to meet her parents sooner.

---

You are going to bring this up tomorrow? Bring it up with... the 14 year old? Call her parents and set up a meet and greet? I realize you think you've done well. In what aspects of this "relationship" have you done well? The sneaking around behind her parents' back aspect?

Why is this not a "normal" situation. What makes your "love" for a 14 year old when you are an adult any different from all the other adults who are "in love" with a child?

If you don't want to hear this, stop posting... and answering.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by forksandspoons

j_9, your trolling is not appreciated, and is unnecessary.

---

I'm sorry you feel that it is unnecessary, however I am a mother of 4 children. Their ages are 25, 24, 18 and 9. Three of these are boys and one girl. My girl is 18. I can tell you what I would do if any of my children were in this situation. By that I mean if my boys were infatuated with a child 6 years younger than themselves, and my daughter with a boy 6 years older than herself.

I was also in a similar situation when I was 18. So I think I have some experience here. But you just don't want to hear it because it's not what you want to hear.

So, to those who do not approve (j9, judy, etc.. )

If I meet her parents, lets say, tomorrow for the sake of discussion, and they approve. I take it from there, and follow their rules and treat the girl with the dignity she deserves, what is the problem? If we can make it 3 and a half years in a platonic relationship, we probably really love each other. It would be well worth the wait.

She will be 18, and I will be 25. Her dad was 20, and mom was 30 when they had her. She has an older brother also. My mom was 19, and dad was 26 when my older sister was born.

If his mother dated when she was 14 and his father was 21 I see this going nowhere - and that must be the case or this latest post has no relevance.

Be sure to tell the parents that you don't intend to have sex with their daughter until she's legal. That will set their minds at ease.

Oh, it's not just the mothers of daughters. If my son at 21 was "in love" with a 14 year old I would also be concerned about him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by forksandspoons

I can get a girl my own age. I have had girls my own age, but I dont want any of them. They are all fake and superficial.

---

I was reading along regarding your career possibilities and smiling -- until I hit a speed bump. "They" AREN'T all fake and superficial. Heavenly days! Comments like that make me wonder about your maturity. Have you ever heard of the negative effect of universalizing something?

Judy, you also have the ability to leave this thread. I am not going anywhere. If you want to continue with your closed minded answers, be my guest.

My mom did not know my dad when she was 14. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

You have no right to dictate who answers or who answers your questions. You put this question on a public board, you will answers whether you like them or not.

So judy, please answer my question. What is wrong with that? You busted my balls when I overlooked a question.

>>>"American values? That's just code for white middle-class prejudices and discrimination, justification for greed and hatred. I believe in giving everyone, as I encounter them, one at a time the full value of their dignity and their honor in the world, without premature judgment. I call that a value."<<<<

Fork... your first post already judged and stereotyped the people here... but then I think deep down you knew what to expect and that is why you started already on the defensive.

I think you already know what is in the best interest of this young girl but you are hoping that someone, somewhere, will back you up in what you want.

She likely doesn't want you to meet her parents because she too knows deep down what the outcome will be.

Her behavior with the classmates is not all that unusual as you seem to think. I personally know many, many young people who would act, and have acted, the same way. Many even younger than her.

Both of you are at different stages of physical and especially cognitive development. She doesn't realize it, and you likely don't as well. This is not whether you like the same things, or think the same way about things.

Consider how much you have changed since you were 14.

You said that you would never hurt her, but that is what will happen if you push this to go further. If you truly love her as you say you do, give her the time and space needed for her development to take place. Whether you realize it or not, your influence at this time in her life will likely hamper that because of the differences.

It is admirable that you feel so passionately about what you feel, but you need to put what you feel aside, step back, and look at this thoughtfully and with consideration to her best interest at this time in her life.

You have no right to dictate who answers or who answers your questions. You put this question on a public board, you will answers whether you like them or not.I am not dictating anything. She gave me the same option. I am making her aware that no one is forcing her to be here either.

Answer my question please.

Thank you doula. I appreciate this response.

Yes, I started on the defensive. Im not stupid, I know how this situation is seen.

Anyway, she has been the one pushing to see me, not the other way around. I always tell her I need to meet her parents first. We haven't had a very serious discussion about specifics of making it happen, but she would set it up.

Do you know if she has mentioned you to her friends?