Let's clear the air. Yes, I stand by when I say "you sitting around waiting for her is foolish". I never said your friend bogus but I said her idea was. See the difference.

In the end it is your life and you are what you make it. So with that being said, if you feel the need to sit around and wait for her then do so. If you willing what to ignore the red flags and see her as a suitable wife then more power to you.

I know what I want and don't want in a mate. When me and my fiancé have issues we sit down and discussion them in a civil, mature matter. Nobody has temper tantrums nor runs away. And one thing for sure the "I dos" doesn't make the problems go away.

Liz28, I do agree with you and thank you for clearing the air. Sitting around waiting for someone to come back is a waste of time and life. It really hurts to move on when you don't want to. Regarding my friend, the psych, suggesting an exit counciling, is what normal people do. You got it right when you say when you have issues with your fiancée, you both sit down in a civil mature manner. That's what my psych friend was suggesting. Now Im left without any answers, drifting in the middle of the ocean, and probably not going to trust anyone else for a long time.. It seems like that's what my ex wants.. Because most normal people who care about someone they loved would not want that to happen... That's why I feel its partially a game... She will not put full closure to things such as calling my family, who bought airline tix, booked hotel, bought dresses for the kids etc.. And apologize to them why this happened. Its only fair and respectful. If I did this I would def call her family out of respect.. Also I think it's a game that she can't call to see how Im doing esp when she knows I didn't want this to end... She can't be that big of a monster can she?

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Now I'm left without any answers, drifting in the middle of the ocean, and probably not going to trust anyone else for a long time..

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So don't trust her either, as given her actions as you described them, she is not trust worthy, reliable, considerate, or marriage material. Just my opinion, and maybe it was the luckiest day of your life when she called everything off.

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It seems like that's what my ex wants.. Because most normal people who care about someone they loved would not want that to happen...

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Blows my mind that you didn't see what she was capable of, but for sure you do now.

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That's why I feel its partially a game... She will not put full closure to things such as calling my family, who bought airline tix, booked hotel, bought dresses for the kids etc.. And apologize to them why this happened.

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That blows my mind also and gives me some insights into what you consider civility, and obviously she does. Live with that.

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Its only fair and respectful. If I did this I would def call her family out of respect..

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Geez guy, you really are expecting too much here. She ain't like you, and you must have been plenty blind, or in love, or both, not to have a clue about her real nature.

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Also I think it's a game that she can't call to see how I'm doing esp when she knows I didn't want this to end... She can't be that big of a monster can she?

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Why should she call you, Mr Civilized, and polished, when the game is to train you to be a loyal obedient puppy. Everything you have written smells of spoiled, manipulative brat, and maybe you're her naïve sucker.

Doesn't matter what she does any more. Man up and do the right thing and vanish fro her life and do your own apology for bringing the biatch into your family's life.

Liz is right, its foolish to expect the right things from her. I know your hurt, but don't be sensitive, or you will truly miss the point.

Talaniman, believe me when I tell you this girl had to the best actress Ive ever known. Nobody,friends or family thought she was capable of being such an a hole. Your right,Im glad I saw it now.My family and friends say the same thing as you did; she is trying to make me her obedient little puppy. I have manned up haven't contacted her for a month, still a when there is a ton of reminders everywhere you go.. I just hope that douches heart is aching just like mine, because believe me bro, I will have the last laugh.

I agree with Talniman.
Be a strong man and see the fundamental issue, do not be a 'trained' puppy for a spoiled woman who will make both of you miserable.
I have a relative who used to hide himself in his closet while his girl friend yelled at him.
He was not strong enough to move on, and married her.
He still locks up himself in the closet while his wife is yelling at him for anything. Forever...
Nobody has sympathy anymore because he 'chose' to be miserable.

I really do appreciate the support on this site.. What she did and is doing is deplorable I know this but what I didn't say was out of 60 days with her, 59/60 would be bliss and that one day, we had a really bad day where she would get so mad and impulsive that it was detrimental.. A lot of you are right on when you say she is a spoiled controlling brat.. Its really hard to tell the heart to shut off from someone that for the most part was a decent loving person, who had a flaw.. Nobody is perfect is how I saw it.. Im sure she could give plenty of examples of how Im not perfect either.. As crazy as it seems I do want her back, but it would be under the condition she gets anger management help, or we seek counciling on how to effectively argue. Im with Liz who has it right by sitting down in a calm controlled mature manner to discuss a problem... That's how it should be.. My ex shouldve discussed and not threatened me with the idea of calling off the wedding, I had no say in the matter.. Her impulsiveness got in the way of sensibility. Have a great day all..

Here's another example of how confused I am about my ex... Her mail stopped coming to my house, so one day Im opening my mail and I noticed a large amount check, it wasn't for me it was hers.. So I broke the no contact rule and sent her a text saying in a really light manner"hey hows it going hope all is well, you got a check here what should I do with it?"She texts me back very matter of factly asking me to mail it to her work. Coldly, says thanks but no "How are you doing? Hope your ok" etc.. Im sitting here saying, I couldve just thrown it away and she'd be out 1800 bucks. After 2 months how can she be mad or cold to someone she was going to marry? Any explanation other than her being a or just plain rude?

Well, pslayne, it sounds like she isn't a very good person from everything you have told us. She seems like a very unhappy person, unhappy with herself and she is doing you a favor but leaving you. Who knows, you might have been miserable after you got married. They say that marriage really changes people.

Just follow your heart, and your mind. If you feel that she is worth waiting for, do it. Otherwise, just try and move on with your life. There are plenty of women out there that would like to be with a guy as caring as you seem to be. Trust me, I know.

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That's how it should be.. My ex shouldve discussed and not threatened me with the idea of calling off the wedding, I had no say in the matter.. Her impulsiveness got in the way of sensibility. Have a great day all..

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The basis for a relationship is grounded in a commitment to be WILLING to work with your partner, to resolve their issue. You were willing, she was not, hmmmm!

Obviously she isn't willing, which leads me to at least consider, she was being nice, and for whatever reason went along with you, but in the end, changed her mind.

Or she showed her true self, and your not willing to accept it, and have overlooked her character in the past

Or a bit of BOTH!

Talaniman your def making strong points but that's not the whole picture in 3 years. She had a big big problem with my ex girlfriend texting me, other girls coming around me, my friends who were single are all dogs, for the lack of a better word. She was nervous that I would want to resort to my old lifestyle, even though I asked her to marry me.But even more importantly, I would never ever have cheated on her nor did she catch me in some suspicious situations. She wanted me to change my cell phone number because of old gf's but I felt that I shouldn't have to change my phone number because of people that meant nothing to me anymore. I figured they would just go away. But eventually I did change my number and when we got into arguments she would bring that up and say I did it too late.. She said I made her feel insecure.. Which is BS because I went way above and beyond to show her I loved her. If we had a fight where we parted for a couple of days, it was always me who initiated contact and said I was sorry.. So I think that is where she is now,. she says she has to find herself and become more secure but can't do that with me for some reason? She says she has to fix her and some rage she's had before she met me.. Let me know what you think minus some of the cynicism.. HAHA!!

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Originally Posted by pslayne2233

..Nobody is perfect is how I saw it.. Im sure she could give plenty of examples of how Im not perfect either.. As crazy as it seems I do want her back, but it would be under the condition she gets anger management help, or we seek counciling on how to effectively argue. ?

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Absolutely.
People got mad sometimes for various reasons, but should be reasonable. She burst her anger, and "could" yell non stop in public without respect or consideration for fiancé who is supposed to be the most important person in her life, it is a very bad red flag. You can seek a way to change her, if she is willing to participate, but you said she would not do it for you or your future marriage. Actually, She is going to the opposite direction and called off the wedding.
If she does not motivated to change her anger mgmt, can you really make her change? Have you ever heard the old phrase "never make your partner as a project"? Because it is hard to change people.
She has so much pride and ego, it will be even harder to change it.

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Originally Posted by pslayne2233

..After 2 months how can she be mad or cold to someone she was gonna marry?? Any explanation other than her being a or just plain rude?

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Sometimes, I have a small disagreement with my husband, but we both face each other ASAP, say sorry for "misunderstanding", and make peace right away. We are in love, we are willing to meet in the middle with respect.(If I did not respect him, or his judgment, I would not marry him, and I have to reconsider his view point even though it makes me not happy initially. Right?) The last thing we like to do is hurt ourselves by hurting each other even for an hour. In fact, each reconsolidation makes our love deeper. Can you see the difference here? I hate to say but it seems she does not love you (or love you enough) to make a life time commitment beyond respect, argument style, or anger mgmt etc.

I can see you love her so much. You might have many sleepless nights already and played the 'bad day' repeatedly in your mind, and confused about your decision. It seems you are very sweet person. You concerned you made her insecure with ex-gf matter unexpectedly. (I do not buy it. You made life time commitment, and it should not be a matter at this point.)She might be under stress for wedding plan besides of her demanding job. She might be in PM or under birth control pill. There are hundreds of reasons you can think of to justify her, however, the bottom line is she should be reasonable, or if she was not, then has to come back and make it up to you at least. She has not done or a plan to do it so far. It is the bigger problem.

You like to hear that she should be hurtful now. Yes, it is true. Who doesn't when the wedding is off? However,
1) she created the issue
2) she called the wedding off to punish you by herself
3) she knows both are hurtful
4) BUT still her desire to mold you in her way is much stronger than coming back to your arms & get married.
5) she is using the wedding as the reinforcement to train you at this point

In love, we are all weak. We do not need logic/power game/brain, but simply want to be with the person and be happy even though he/she has fault. However, she is cold, furious, and punishing you in order to take control of you.

How can you make your marriage work if her self-destructive, unreasonable, and hurtful logic is empowering her love and hurt both of you? Do you have enough love to be 100% in her way, apologize for anything you did not do wrong to make her happy whenever conflict arises? Then you should turn off your self-esteem switch completely, and run after her.
The problem is still
1) it is questioning if she will forgive (?? ) you & marry you until you prove you know how to press the right button to please her as a 100% loyal partner
2) even though you successfully pass her stress test (!) & get married, it will be very difficult to maintain your marriage happy, because once she knows her power over you, she will require more extreme or get board after for a while. It will be a typical powerful wife with a no self-esteem husband combination, she will loose respect and interest from you very quickly, frustrated, and be more controlling. It will be a bad cycle.

Once again, if I am you, I will do my best to regain the full respect & love from her. Otherwise, I will forget about the marriage, and move on. Do not caught up with the idea of getting married, and focus on the "goal" of the marriage. I think it is a good idea to be cool with NC, and take a control as a man. You have to let her know you are not a easy cookie. She is a good catch in your eyes, so as you in her eyes. Be confident! She did not want to let go completely, and you are in better shape than you think.

What can you loose? In worst case, you will lose the possible bad marriage. In best case, you will get a 'trained' brainy wife who will make the marriage workable. Win-Win situation. FYI. I guess you know we are here to help you to see the truth objectively, not harsh on you over your agony.

Winding 200 thank you very much for the encouragement and the help.. You know when I think of it, every time we've had a bad fight, it was I who always was the one to reconcile. Some arguments, she would come to her senses and talk things over. But the big ones, were always me. It is a win win situation for me, I lose a quick tempered irrational person, or she will come back with enough respect to at least meet me half way in disagreements. Just a question, is it obvious that she didn't want to let go completely and Im not seeing it, because she has not tried to contact me in any form. Please embellish on how Im in better shape than I think... I tend to think of worse case scenarios and live off them... Thanks again for taking the time to help and responding!

Of course you are in better shape now. You don't have to bow down to move forward, you can make decisions without thinking of her first. Take the time to grieve for this part of your life darlin, but be willing to see the things that weren't so great as well. It sounds an awful lot like you were doing all the compromising and she didn't do much. Maybe now you can do a little for yourself.

Im just shocked,well maybe I shouldn't be seeing that she is showing her true colors as a very selfish person, that she has not tried to reach out not for reconciliation, but just to see how Im doing as a person. Or an old friend for that matter. This can't be just because this is she is trying to control me, can it? Reflecting back there have been situations where she may have displayed those qualities of trying to manipulate to get control. But this one is the mother of all manipulation, if that's the case. There is no doubt in my mind that she was deeply in love with me so that can't be the answer. I feel that she has so much egg on her face from overreacting and calling off the wedding that she has to follow through with what she's doing or she is going to look even crazier, of course all at my expense and feelings. Everywhere Ive read says the No Contact rule really works, displaces their anger with feelings of missing you, at the same time getting control over your own feelings. She broke it off with me, by all means she should contact me, me mot contacting her in any situation right? Or is that just playing a manipulative game? Thanks again everyone!.

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Everywhere Ive read says the No Contact rule really works, displaces their anger with feelings of missing you, at the same time getting control over your own feelings.

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You are not correct, as NO CONTACT is for YOU to gain perspective, NOT for her to miss you.

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She broke it off with me, by all means she should contact me, me not contacting her in any situation right?

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You need to get your own self together, whether she tries to contact you or not. Stop trying to rationalize her behavior with your own sense of what she should be doing. Its about what you should be doing with the facts you have. She dumped you. That's the fact. Now get through the feelings and cope with them.

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Or is that just playing a manipulative game? Thanks again everyone!.

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Since your right there, and know her, how do you expect us to know what she is motivated by? For all we know, she may be tired of the way your acting, or has just had a change in heart. Her motives are not as important as how you deal with them. That's the point, not the questions with no answers, but the actions you take, which is obvious as you get over your shock, and let your emotional dust settles.

Talinamin you said in an earlier post is that she is manipulating me to be the loyal obedient puppy on a leash.. If you could say that then why do you feel you(we) can't tell me or suggest to me what her motives could be? Some girls do that passive aggressive behavior just to see if your still into them correct? But wrong I agree. Also, absence makes the heart grow fonder so why wouldn't the no contact work? It also reliquishes some control because she has to be thinking where did my little puppy go right? Puts perspective for me as well.. Are you a trained professional or just been through the ringer a few times, because you have great insight

As I said I work in the medical field and have never fully agreed with psychiatrists or psychologists. I went to one for the 1st time and all she said was I don't know to everything. FOS. I asked her haven't you dealt with many cases similar to mine that you should have an idea, she said I don't know.. That was my final session.. My point is Im finding more insight than a schoooled professional.

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Originally Posted by pslayne2233

Just a question, is it obvious that she didnt want to let go completely and Im not seeing it, because she has not tried to contact me in any form.

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So, here we go.
1) You say that there was no issue, but the day's incident caused the breakup. In case, it is a fairy simple & girly power game even though it is very brutal. The wedding is the hostage for dramatic effect.

2) She called off the wedding, but refused to give you closure. It means she does not want you to be clean and go out for date. She is holding you tight while she is debating. What she actually saying is "I will be possible for a while, catch me in my way if you do not want to loose me."
She uses NC, and it gives you frustration. You report to her your pain in a 'half way' NC, and it proves her strategy is working. Again, it is stress test to train you not actual break.

3) D-Day: Even better, you have a W-day which will be the explosion point for her. If she does not hear from you until that point, she will be really furious and worried. Her plan is not losing the years of investment on you, but winning you as loyal one. By the time, she will contact you in any form, and you will have a good chance to talk it over. Expect more fighting & twisted drama at this point. She will not just come out and say sorry, and it will be very hurtful for both of you until she has no choice but give in 'after find the right excuses to save her face' or you have to give in finally.

Your max pain for NC will be until the wedding day, I guess.

4) Although you will go through heart wrenching dramas, I see you guys will marry if you still have strong will.

5) The last, you are in a better shape because you are away from the turbulence & her control, and re-shaping your plans for your better future by yourself.

Organize your belief and 'MUST HAVE' list in the relationship. You need to sit tight, be calm, and tell what you want from her persistently. If you can be patient, you will gain the girl who has to respect you without choice. Otherwise, you will lose the possible bad & irrational marriage. Win win situation.

My question is, how much you want to play the game. She is wasting the energy from both of you to fight not nurture the love itself. In my opinion, even though you win 'the wedding' game, you will need a lot of patience to make it work in the life long journey. If you loose you patience as she does, the marriage will be nothing but turbulence. If children is involved in the situation, it will be really destructive. What is your strategy to deal with her if she uses sex, cold treatment, children or all of above to constantly train you in the marriage in case?

I feel tired already and I am not sure I want to be in it if I am a man if I want to be happy... In general, bride-to-be is very happy in the period, lost in euphoria, and rarely call the wedding off unless there is a REALLY serious issue. She is a forceful fighter type. I guess you are attracted to a strong woman.

Winding200
Awesome insight.. wow Im so impressed how bright a lot of the people are on this sight.. I have been giving full NC have not spoken or tried to call her or any other contact as brutal as its been since June 19th. So are you suggesting that I contact her and be persistent?"You need to sit tight, be calm, and tell what you want from her persistently." Im pretty sure her real serious issue as to why she called it off is because she felt I would eventually leave her and uses leaving her at the restaurant when she was causing a scene.Its almost like she is forcing a self fulfilled prophecy. She was afraid I would leave and she pushed a situation so to that would happen. Also, Im not sure if you read the thread about how I sent her a text(the only 1in a 6 weeks) about a large amount check she got in the mail.. I texted her very nonchalantly and cordial telling her about the check and I said I hope alls well.. She only texted me back where to mail it, which was her work. Never said I hope your OK too, never asked a thing about me. Don't you find that awfully weird to be that standoffish to someone you dated for 3 years and live with for 1 and about to be married in 3 months? Was that a game or could someone just fall out of love like that and not care? Thank you so much for your advice.. As I said before, this site has been incredibly helpful.. Much appreciated..

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So are you suggesting that I contact her and be persistent?

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I did a big puzzle for you, you will work on the details.
If I am you, I will wait, and talk to her JUST AFTER she contact you by the W-Day. She will really need to talk it over, and it is the best time to negotiate. Right now, she is treating you with 'brutal treatment', your communication will not be effective. If you keep the NC loner, she has to talk to you by W-Day, because her cold treatment period will be expired after that.

Last text over check:
OK. I got it. You were in NC indeed. Even though you helped out to get the check, you were not apologetic enough to satisfy her, she could not forgive you, and was so cold. Her focus is on power & control, not love & caring anymore. As I said, it is very brutal power game, and she is planning not to loose it or change herself so far.

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Im pretty sure her real serious issue as to why she called it off is because she felt I would eventually leave her and uses leaving her at the restaurant when she was causing a scene.Its almost like she is forcing a self fulfilled prophecy.

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You think it is totally unreasonable to extend the restaurant scene that much.
Here is my interpretation using unspoken word in her side.

"I(your ex) feel you would eventually leave me if I am nasty in marriage & I maybe be nasty in marriage helplessly without control, because you COULD leave me at the restaurant. I need to know you would be with me, take any treatment I give you in marriage anywhere & anyhow. It does not matter who's fault it is. If you COULD leave me in restaurant, you are not totally blinded by LOVE, and I cannot control you fully. Show me I have full control over you. I am not planning to change my attitude. You change yourself for me. Otherwise, it is over."

Your ex is not simply short tempered person, but has a strong will to escalate it to the largest scale to get what she wants. If she wanted to be reasonable, she did not have to call the wedding off. Have you ever thought if it was not only one time 'hot temper', but she finally lost her patience unexpectedly before W-day? She has worked hard to make the relationship, but could not be patient anymore, gave up, and walked out? Once again, if she was simply short tempered person,
1) she would not escalate it that level
2) she would regret (short temper = emotional. In the case she would change her mood frequently)
3) she would try to talk it over with love
3) or she would come back long time ago (or did not leave)

Winding 200, I think you are right again about the power control 100%.. The one thing Im starting to believe which Im sure anyone who goes through the NC, is that the other person just does not care anymore, especially if they haven't made contact by then. Im not sure the W day is as important to her as I would like to think. Im getting the impression she is happy our relationship is over.. As for the check incident your dead on again, I was loose and casual, and she was trying to portray that I was just a nothing stranger to her. As for restaurant scene, again so accurate. This is not the first time she has tried to exert control over me using her temper and escalation. She is an exceptionally unreasonable person when she hits that red zone of her temper, completely irrational and rather immature. I really believe that because of the fact she told her family of the incident and they told her they do not support our relationship, hence this is why she moved on and hasn't looked back thus far. You are confident that she will try to contact me at some point? I guess if she doesn't , our relationship was a farce and I really didn't lose anything but lost an actor of false love. You wrote "If you COULD leave me in restaurant, you are not totally blinded by LOVE, and I cannot control you fully. Show me I have full control over you. I am not planning to change my attitude. You change yourself for me. Otherwise, it is over." Couldn't be any closer to exactly how she has been in our relationship! Thanks for your brilliant insight again.

Pslayne2233,
I am confident she will contact you. She did not give you the closure. Remember? Cheer up!

Is it possible that her NC and my NC will just cause us 2 drift apart? Also, if she said she was still in love with me, is it possible for that to diminish? Im banking on the heart growing fonder instead of out of sight out of mind..
Winding 200... She didn't give me closure but another person on this site feels she won't give closure , this is her way of closing because she's selfish and doesn't care about closure for me, just her own.. any thoughts?

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is it possible that her NC and my NC will just cause us 2 drift apart?

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No. We are trying to make you gain the 'appropriate sense' out of it which will be ONLY your weapon in this war.

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also, if she said she was still in love with me, is it possible for that to diminish?

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Oh, boy! No.
You are single minded, and just hear what you want to hear. If she had enough love, she did not create this much pain. She decided to be alone because SHE COULD BE without you. You are desperate and confused again. Where is the logical plan you had as a man?

I laid out all my opinions already. I will be more straigt forward. You are in a highly risky & toxic type relationship which will bring more uncontrollable disaster like Florida Hurricanes. It will destroy you & your dignity if you are not strong enough to handle it. I cannot believe you cannot wait to jump in the eye of the Hurricane. I will say NO, and wait until she contacts you to see how it goes. If you jump on now, it will only announce your weakness, you will totally loose the ground, and the game is over even before start. I thought you were smarter than that. I must overestimated you.

So, you still believe she is worth it, huh?
If you can be cosfused so easily, you will be possibly on wedding without fixing the serious issues. If then, you definitely need pre-nub, and a good divorce lawyer stand-by in my opinion. It is your call. In Florida, there are plenty of sunny days between Hurricanes. Do you really want to fix the Hurricanes first or ignore & jump in the Hurricanes? Oh, boy.

Winding 200.. There must be some confusion here.. I will absolutely not contact her ever again unless she contacts me first... Your absolutely right, if I were talk to her and try to make amends, I will be nothing more than a welcome mat and she will have less respect for me more than ever. I think the questions I asked i.e. NC and drifting apart and falling out of love from distance were rhetorical.. My own questions that I never had to address before until now.. Ive never been this in love before.. Your absolutely correct getting back with her unless she changes would be like jumping into the eye of a hurricane.. That's precisely why I walked away and have not contacted her. I have dignity and self esteem.. Im just ignorant to the fact that people want to play power games when in relationships, I thought were about love.. Again, this is on her, she broke off the wedding,although she said she didn't want to, so its on her to repair, and that in itself is going to be an uphill battle, what could she possibly say to make me believe she wouldn't do something so foolish and irrational again? I will never talk to her again unless she initiates with humility and honesty.

pslayne2233,
OK. I admit it was my confusion then. I thought you were losing patience, and intended to break NC. I am glad my assumption was wrong. It is also funny, I was just about asking you why you started the NC while ago, and you answered the question automatically. HAHA

I canot agree enough it is not worth to waste energy for power game (even for a minute) not nurturing 'the great love' in the relationship. Is it relevant some countries are still in war in this earth? (I am trying to be funny) I guess everybody has different priority.

I start to think that the motivation can be: she is seeing 'marriage' as a new set up, and trying to level up as she wants, while you are seeing it as an extension of love. I do not understand why she has to be so extreme though. Are you sure you guys had no issues at all for 3 years? A bride-to-be in the period is the happiest person in life time, should be far from the warrior zone. The level of rage concerns me.

Regading to NC, I found out the great meaning, power & benefit in this site. You can search through here. People are very supportive, and helping each other to land on happy relationship in this site. It is powerful because it is real, and based on the lessons they learned in the past by their own hard way. I know you are going through difficult time, and should feel free to talk it out & get some answers. I think it is more beneficial than talking to close friends, since we can get more objective & multiple answers. It feels great I have 'the place' I can talk about anything, and get support all the time!

Once again, it is given that your ex will be emotional by W-Day (who cannot be in the situation?), and it will be the best timeframe for communication. I hope she recovers from the unreasonable rage, comes out with humble ears, and you guys 'finally' talk it over. Good Luck!

Question for question:
When did you find out you have never been this in love before? What is the reason do you think it is?

Winding 200.. I am struggling from time to time but I have too much pride to let someone break off a marriage like that and I go back to her to get back together.. I treated her like a queen.. No we had some issues over the past 3 years as most couples do.. Its a learning experience, growing together.. I believe a big problem with her is my past.. I was single for so long that she felt people don't change and will always revert to what they knew in the past.. Admittedly embarrassing I dated too many women.. She is the type of person that needs complete steadiness in her life, her life was/is so mapped out and organized, that any argument we had shook her ground, much of which was over exaggerated. She is definitely dramatic. Because of my past I treated most of my relationships as a revolving door, meaning they didn't mean that much to me to care, so often I would just break up with them, no questions asked. I initially took this approach when my ex and we first started dating. I would tell her to leave my house, or foolishly break it off,when we argued, only to find out that's not what I really wanted. I would find myself always trying to reconcile with her and successfully all of the time, she wanted this to work, she loved me.. But retrospectively thinking, it takes 2 to argue and she would rarely give in.So as you can see this type of relationship made her feel unsteady.. But at some point,I realized that I loved this girl so much that I would change from how I would act towards her when arguing. I would try to talk her through it only to have her escalate more. I even tried to have a code word that would say that the argument was getting too out of control lets take a 5min break and regroup, she couldn't control her temper. This is where I tried and she didn't meet me half way. But she knew all of these incidents when she accepted my proposal.. I never said or did any of those things again. This was the girl for me.. And she really was ecstatic about the wedding, she would tell everyone she knew, she was so excited to go pick out her dress, pick out the rings etc.. There were nosigns that she was getting cold feet.. Like I said, the night of the restaurant incident, she looked at me with such love and said she wanted to be pregnant within a year.We were mapping out our summer vacations in that same week, so you see there were no signs that she wanted it over.. You made a very interesting point, when I did talk to her a few days after initial breakup she told me she had a rage inside of her even before she met me, that she needed help with.. but wouldn't do it with me..? I never thought I would meet my ideal girl to answer your question... I knew she was the one by her passion, beauty, affectionate,intelligence, moral standards, how we wanted to raise children, family oriented, etc.. even her fervor in arguing, to a point of course.. I am madly in love with this woman. Im praying she comes back to me..

FYI.

Controlling Wife Type
In my observation, some women try to control their husbands way too much in marriage, it can cause imbalance in family mechanism. There are two types of extreme controlling method.

Lap dog... husband is basically treated like a lap dog. When husband does favorable things, wife treats him with affection, verbal appraise, extra attention, and good sex, food etc. It is typical "HAPPY WIFE, HAPPY LIFE" setting. When wife looks at him, husband automatically feels he has to do something to please her. It actually makes family peaceful and both parties happy & satisfied. Draw back is when wife controls him with too much details (typical micro-management), husband loose masculinity in long run.

Trash... husband is treated like absolutely "nothing or trash" when he cannot deliver the favorable behavior to wife. Wife punishes him with cold treatment, cynical criticism, verbal abuse, yelling, and public humiliation, Wife openly present husband as stupid and useless to make her look better (unknowingly she is only making herself as loser's wife), and find themselves nobody wants to invite them for BBQ party. The couple loose happiness, and respect from family & friends. It is very destructive & painful for man, and he looses identity, dignity, and suffers by depression due to the self worthless . Husband will dreams about rebel, cheating, or leaving, and finally execute the plan when he cannot take it anymore. (Some still stay because they do not have 'guts' to leave or to protect kids. )


Some women mix both methods.
What is her type you think?

pslayne2233,
I have read your sincere post, and it touched my heart!
Before I say anything, I have 2 questions for you.

1. Have you ever divorced before?
2. It is very important question:
Has she ever apologized sincerely or said sorry and meant with her heart to you for the past 3 years in any occasions?
(It means beyond the level you guys bump each other in kitchen and say sorry instead of saying excuse me. You know what I am trying to say here)

Winding 200 reading these descriptions LMAO! Its def not the trash description, she would be openly happy(act or not who knows at this point)and affectionate when in others company.additionally I would never let anyone treat me like that in the 1st place.. Remember I had the attitude my way or highway before we met.. For the most part Im a confident person, although she has challenged that during all this at times. But the 1st description sounds more like her.. Good deeds get rewarded anything done unknowingly wrong or not I get the punishment.. Just a little insight of how much that could happen... One day we were watching a movie, I just happened to mention I thought Penelope Cruz was good looking.. My ex left for work 4 hrs early and when I called her to ask where she went, she replied, you just keep watching Penelope.. The lap dog said something she didn't like and left the house. Insanely jealous type as well as you can see. Just a reinforcement from your thought process, You really feel that this is being dragged out for a power control issue? I guess I could see that considering in the past it has always been me to initiate the reconciliation, but if this is the case, it completely blows my mind that some people are like that.. I never thought I could be a romantic, but I sure believe and really enjoy being in love. Damn double edged sword though, hurts so much when it is static.. Thanks again for helping out... Honestly Im getting better and more insightful from reading your posts and from your advice day by day..

Winding 200, no I have never been divorced nor ever engaged, this was my 1st time.. I thought I was going to be the eternal bachelor.Honestly, I can't remember her taking any responsibility for any serious argument we've had. It was always me.. Even up until the restaurant scene she caused , I called her and asked for an apology for publicly humiliating me.. Her reply was I want you to say your sorry for leaving me there first.. I said her, fine I never wanted to fight nor walk out in the first place , so sorry it any of it happened.. She still took less of the resposibility..

Winding 200 sorry for all the typos, hope you can follow along!

I am here to help you see the fact objectively.

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I knew she was the one by her passion, beauty, affectionate, intelligence, moral standards, how we wanted to raise children, family oriented, etc.

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I see good enough elements in her to be your intriguing & spicy girlfriend. You forgot to add exotic, cultural (from PR), and charismatic (we will talk about it later).

I do not see "understanding, caring, nurturing, emotionally stable, warm, peace maker, etc" kind of elements which will make a good wife. If she has not created the brutal breakup, it would not be a matter, but since she has, you SHOULD re-evaluate her character.

For her character, she is also unreasonable, outrageous (rage), childish (Penelope Cruz? How childish... ), out-of control, arguing, self-centered, irresponsible, cruel, nasty (public humiliation), arrogant (no apology), stubborn and emotional abuser & quitter (called off wedding) who refuse to even talk it over. She is not a good wife material. Period. She will likely make the marriage disaster if she does not change herself. Please read on...

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there were no signs that she was getting cold feet.

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I do fully agree with you that you both did not have cold feet.

Your past & her security issue:
You were legally single, and eligible to date multiple girls casually.
I am not saying that your relationship style was ideal. You must hurt some innocent girls multiple times I am pretty sure. (what goes around, it comes around HA HA)

Regarding to your past, you guys have been together for 3 yrs, lived for 1, engaged, have pending wedding, and you have never cheated on her. There is no ground she has to be obsessed by your past, and still suffer from insecurity issues. You both passed the phase long time ago as all we know.

The real issue is she could not resolve her anger toward your past, because she CANNOT accept it, and she does not like it. She clearly knows it is useless to focus on your past, because she has no control over it, however could not help it to stop bothering her. I see it is your first time engagement, marriage to leave your freedom behind to start a new life with her. She knows the meaning very clearly. If she wanted to be secure from your past, SHE SHOULD RUSH the wedding to tie you up completely. So, your past is not the real issue, but an excuse for her to be outrageous. "YOU would leave me eventually..." statement is again totally BS and pointless, since you have a proven track record that you never been married & divorced in your life before.
If you marry, you will find her still talking about your past besides of your other 100's of imperfections & faults at age 80. It is her nature. Something will be always bugging her "A LOT", she will constantly make a big deal out of it, and she will flip & be outrageous helplessly to control everything in her way.


Bottom line is she is obsessive & compulsive person. Nothing will make her happy, and she will constantly outburst with rage.
I see this type of people in my work environment, and most of them are very successful & charismatic. It makes perfect sense because their obsessive & compulsive nature push them to focus on the 'imperfect & unfinished' tasks, force them to outrageously work hard to make it 'perfect & successful'. YOU will be 'the ongoing project' she will consume full of her rage in this setting under the name of 'LOVE & MARRIAGE'. That is what she is. For her, marriage is getting full authority to have you as her project, mold you in her way, she even could not wait to initiate it, and she began the power game even before the wedding in the restaurant.

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I even tried to have a code word that would say that the argument was getting too out of control lets take a 5min break and regroup, she couldn't control her temper...

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You made a very interesting point, when I did talk to her a few days after initial breakup she told me she had a rage inside of her even before she met me, that she needed help with..

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It is VERY bad. 5 STAR RATED RED FLAG!
Her rage is coming from her nature. According to your information, it seems to me she has been acting out with unreasonable rage, and you could not successfully resolved it for the past 3 yrs. You have seen the issue, but you did not take it too seriously until now. She pushed the envelop too hard at this time, and you got the signal finally. The bad news is it is only the initial warning for appetizer. The good news is you could see it before wedding.

No decent man/woman deserved pubic humiliation in any circumstances. Any argument between couples should be done behind of door, not in public. You left the scene to avoid it, and it made her more furious. She is forcing hard now to make you to take it without resistance or avoidance. What she is saying is "Why do you care of saving your face from other strangers here? You are mine, and only focus on me & accommodate with me. When I am in rage, I will be out of control as you have seen for the past 3 yrs. Do not even try to avoid it." At the moment, wedding was almost done deal, she tested her authority in public little too early. In her mind, you should not dare to avoid it by that time. Do you think she did not know the public humiliation is not acceptable for any decent man/woman, but only for criminals? Do you think she would take it if you yelled at her in the restaurant? I pointed it out multiple times. If it was honest rage, she did not have to break off.

Even though she has all the dream traits you were looking for, she has a great fault. She is not a good wife material. She will easily make marriage disaster by flipping her mood in a second. I will leave her alone until she comes back, can realize & accept it, work it out, and finally reconstruct herself. I know how much you love her, and I am pretty sure you will not mind to make it as a long term project you guys work together.
Even worse, you say she rarely apologize. It means she does not believe she can be possibly wrong in any circumstances. For her, apologizing is shameful and IMPOSSIBLE to do it because she cannot accept her mistake or failure "to be perfect". Bottom line is she does not know how to step back, negotiate, deal with issues, or fight fairly. You have been together for 3 yrs , but had not 'real constructive conversation' with her. You always have apologized her to keep the peace at the moment. So, Until she can apologize sincerely without taking it as her 'bitter defeat' internally, you should not make any wedding talk.

In marriage, a couple have to make decisions daily base as a team. Disagreement is inevitable event though they have common goal for 'happiness'. If you cannot communicate & fight with her fairly, your marriage is dead.

Until you are being flat for her without any integrity left, she will continue to come back & battle with you by fully utilizing her rage. She has endless resource of rage from her nature. Scary... When something goes wrong, she will blame rage in her. " It is not me, it is rage in me." If she decided to be irresponsible for it, it is out of control...

Pslyne2233,

When is you W-day?
How many people think you guys should get married so far?

Winding 200. I cannot believe how incredibly accurate your assessment is of my situation.. you have described her personality. The majority of our fights usually began when we were going or I asked her to go to my hometown, where my ex gf's lived and we could've potentially ran into.. My response was typically "who cares Im in love with you, you were the only person I ever asked to marry me".. She still would be upset. You'd never know she had these types of behaviors if you ever met her, she was completely charming and cordial always. Recently my brother said to me he always wondered about her because she was always in a excessively happy mood. He thought it was an act at times, but know knows it was through her behaviors now. Virtually everyone I know are in shock that she is acting this way. People who really, really cared for her. Regarding the restaurant, she and her family thought that was the ultimate act of disrespect even though I was pleading with her that I didn't want to fight with her. I had exhausted all options to try to stop what she was doing.. I had no choice. She told me that her brother in this situation wouldve ran home got the car, drove her home, then told her she was wrong for doing that... So what they're saying is I should have put aside my own anger and humiliation, deal with her anger, and saw to it she wasn't left there alone. I walked home its only 1/4 mile from my house, she couldve called me out of concern, or took a taxi.. Like I said this was a yale/harvard grad, she couldn't have figured those things out?? She wanted to fight point blank... Again you are 100% correct, she suffers from the perfect syndrome and can never be wrong and apologize. On a different note Karma and I are not getting along, Karma is def letting me have a taste of my own medicine, SOB! haha.. I really don't see her coming around because of the hole she has dug and her ego being too big to overcome what she has created. I hope Im wrong and not just thinking negatively.. If by cahnce we do get back together we will be in counceling within the 1st week we get back together. This cannot and will not happen again. The wedding day was set to be Oct 17th. Many people will ask me why do I want to marry such a self centered, mean, selfish, Im started to question that myself.. This standoff has been going on too long and Im starting to get angry towards her actions and coldness. Winding 200 May God bless you, you've been a godsend and so helpful.. Thanks again!

pslayne2233,
you are very welcome. I did my best to be objective & analytical for you. I am glad it is helpful.

I think you better forget about her now, get focused on yourself & healed from the pointlessly heart wrenching drama. You know the 'real value of her' now, calm down, and re-evaluate the past 3 yrs with sober mind as well. You will realize the 'truth' a lot at this point. I know you did your best for her. The good news is you enjoyed her for 3 yrs while she behaved her best to get married. You should not have any regret even though you let go completely. I strongly believe that it will be only downhill from here even though she comes back. Do not expect too much to protect you from disappointment.

The statistics shows 45.8% of married couple end up divorce in 10 years in US (sadly), even though they had the perfect start. What could be yours honestly? I guess you know what I am trying to say here. We want to be in relationship to be happy, not suffering & be killed day by day.

Why don't you make a plan to take a good vacation to mind off as a single if your time permits? I am a world traveler, and always learn something new & excited in each trip. I think it is better ides to get fresh air, and make a new plan for tomorrow. Are you having good sleep in these days?

Winding 200.. I am getting better, through others insight and good ole time itself.. I think I read that divorce stats are actually down around 36-38% now which I'm sure is prob a financial reason some stay together.. Can u embellish something for me that you said.. Why do you think it will be downhill if she were to comeback? I would think she learned(hopefully) that she needed to change some things to make it work.. Are you still confident she will be back as you said prior? Also what did you mean when you said don't expect too much to protect me from disappointment? I have been keeping busy as much as I can.. My sleep is fine... Much appreciated responses

The divorce rate data of mine was not the most updated one. Is yours in last year? Regardless of the reason, I am glad the rate dropped. I am catholic, and anti-divorce. Once a couple wed in religion, I believe they have to make it work with their full heart for life time.

I am confident you guys will have communication. She will come in any forms, (possibly in a more dramatic & nasty way to demonstrate in my opinion), and it will give you a cue to talk it over. It is not coming back to your arms, but giving you a chance to talk it over. It is human nature to revisit the place on the memorial day (!). Negative reinforcement is certainly a type of reinforcement. Her anger is demonstrating her obsession. For an extreme example, if she resumes verbal attack around the W-day, it means she is breaking up NC, and you can step in and interact. Right now she resides in her ice land, and you should not knock the door.

"dont expect too much to protect me from disappointment "
I am talking about the progress & outcome, quality of relationship if you guys try the second time. You want to try hard, but you do not know how much she is willing to meet in a half way. If she already filtered out her anger, gained sanity, and deeply regrets, meets you with love, the damage can be recovered somewhat, you can make enough emotional reunion to try it again. What if she is still in the monstrous land? The argument will last forever without progress. Your emotional and mental resources will be drained, and you might want to walk away. You will have bad karma, exhausted, and resentful.
In my experience, the second time relationship is not as good as first one. Trust, intimacy, excitement, anticipation, and optimism is broken, and it will be filled with full of doubt and lack of confidence instead, and almost like in a 'rebound relationship' with the same person.
The truth is, if she COULD break up for months before pending wedding, she will possibly repeat it over and over again. The first time is always hard, but second time is much easier.
She did break off due to the crazy idea of "possibly you will leave me eventually...", which is only existing in her head but fabricated with her logic. She can make anything as 'the' reason she has to break up with you. Have you ever thought she might file a divorce because "you can possibly have fantasy over Penelope Cruz, and it is emotional cheating & will leave her eventually & emotionally"? HAHA Please do not laugh. To me she seems have a bipolar or personality disorder like symptom. (Sorry, I recently read too many mental illness books. I hope you understand I am not trying to attack her.) You guys will need professional counseling, but it will be a long process.

You think you can not replace her (really?), and you want to try hard to be logical & patient for both of you, while protect your dignity. But be honest, I am pessimistic about the outcome. It is given that it will be a hard journey with a woman she erupts like a volcano without any warning sign. I asked you this before. Why do you want this? You have choices as much she has.

Winding 200 we have that in common and my ex knows that I am anti divorce. Once Im married,that is it for me. I don't care what happens in the relationship,outside of infidelity, I will work through the problems that married people are posed with.Thick and thin, good times and in bad. Those are what I believe in and will never change my belief in that.I remain steadfast in my word.That is probably a reason I want my ex back so badly, I felt as if she was my wife. We lived together, she had a ring, the love, all we needed was the official piece of paper and a ceremony. Love is my marriage. I can see what your saying about the 2nd time being more challenging, trust and doubt will be on my mind,Im sure... I feel like the window of opportunity is closing for her. By that I mean this has gone on too long if it is a power game, and we are approaching 3 months apart. I feel that is ample time to sort things through. If she is missing me as much as Im missing her, I don't see the reason why she cannot reach out to me.. Im starting to get angry that she is treating our relationship as if it was insignificant. Not to sound redundant, but the check incident was a perfect forum just to ask how Im doing and hoping Im OK, just as I did to her. Its pure courtesy to ask how someone is doing especially if you were/are in love with them. Is it possible that was her display of "not caring" because I have broke all contact just as she asked,and she thinks I don't care for her? Ive spoken to some women, and they feel the same as you, it's a power struggle, and if that is really the case, she is just an a@#hole. Those same women say she did exactly opposite(cold,obtuse) of how she really feels. because if she was really over it she couldve been at least more thankful let alone cordial. As to your question about dating other women, I feel she is the one(as crazy as that sounds), my heart is on fire for her. She does have great qualities about her or I wouldve told her where the door is a long time ago. As of right now, Im taking care of me, working as much as I can, trying to stay emotional focused, I have been working out like a fiend, but I always feel like there is something big missing and its her. Im hoping she feels the same and comes to her senses, because like I said before, Im getting angry from her mistreatment, and she's going to lose me at some point close in the future.. Have a great day Winding 200!

pslayne2233,
All you said is so correct and accurate. You are a such a decent man who is in love indeed. I cannot believe she broke off from you & her luck for a crazy reason nobody understands. It is her loss... The bottomline is if she cherished the relationship as you do, she would not break it off even for a minute, and it has been too long... You have tried so hard to talk it over, and she has refused. You need to accept that she is not caring it as much as you do.

When I had a relationship problem, I had poured myself into work & totally became a workaholic. It was the most productive way to heal. HAHA we have that in common as well. Have a great day, friend!