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I agree here with BMI , how would you feel?? If she wants to be with you then let her finish it with her husband and THEN you can go for it. She is cheating emotionally on her Husband and your there helping. Just think , if she cheats on her now husband there's always a chance in the future she will do it to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by BMI
From your words, I am not so clear about what your girl thinks! She said her marriage is a shell, she has to be committed to her word,but she also said she always believes you will be together again! How? It seems she does not love her husband,but she married him,I don't know why! (maybe just for loneliness or maybe just for making a living,I don't know)she does not love her husband, and she still has feeling for you,believe you will be together again! But she does not end up her marriage unless her husband leaves first,I do not know why either! If she really still loves you and want to be with you and feel sorry for her husband, she should talk with her husband,then find a way out!if not,maybe it is true that you and her husband means the same for her,she can live with any one of you for the rest of her life,now her marriage is boring,she does not love her husband enough,but you are there,you can talk with her,make her feel a little happy in the boring marriage,but be noted that any man can do that! If there is no that man,life goes on,will make no difference for her as time pass by! I think it would be good if you go away,and let her make a decision,or you guys talk with her husband!whatever you do,don't hurt others! No one deserves pain!
I think we're beyond the cheating stage. He knows it just an emotional thing right now and as long he as he knows that we're okay still. (He's about 10 older than her and previously divorced) No chance she'd cheat on me. She never did all the time we dated exclusively and if I had called her earlier, she would never have married him. She's even told me this. I cannot walk away from her. She even told me to not walk away. I think she's still working this out in her brain as her heart says yes... again. Plus, walking away a second time?? I feel life has a way of self correcting for mistakes that shouldnt've happened in the past. I could've taken 2 jobs by now in another state over the past 2 years, but something kept pulling me back. I so glad I didn't go because I would never know this feeling now... both good and bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by friend4u178
So no, I can't walk away. I want to but I can't and I won't. Yes, I think she's cheating emotionally on her husband... but the marriage died a long time ago. Now just basically roommates... not a good reason to stay in it. I hope she sees this soon. I will never be happy without her... she and I complete and click on so many levels it's scary. I am banking on everything... letting everything ride... all the marbles, pulling out all the stops, going for broke, whatever it takes and wherever it takes. Crazy huh? Totally not me but telling someone "I love you" has never been easier or more true. Ya can't love two people and be married. I say be true to your heart. A talk is coming up with her and I... and I'm terrified of how it will end because she's always been the rational one and usually regrets her decision on these things later saying I was right. I KNOW I'm right on this one. I've never been so clear or so sure of anything in life.
So how do I proceed? Attacking her marriage is not a good option. Even if I reiterate all the things she told me about it and ask her how she could consider staying married to one she doesn't really truly love, her answer isn't fair to either of us as she'll say she can't. Maybe just wait for a few more months for her to sort it out and then bring up this stuff?
Daily e-mails, phone calls, flirting, dates, gifts, contact... you tell me. If these aren't signs, I don't know what is.
Thoughts?
First how dare you contact and start seeing a married women, that is just the sign of a real "dog" who does not care about others or moral values at all. I am disgusted.
You stop seeing her, recommend she gets married counseling, AFter a while if her and her husband can't make it, and they divorce in latter time, then after a few months after the divorce you may consider dating her.
If not, may all the misery this type of relationship brings be what you find.
Hey Chicago,
I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, I am only trying to help with what I think is the best think for all parties involved. Whether its what you want to hear is not the concern.
You say that the marriage died but you are in no position to comment on that, its not YOUR marriage. Also, that they are just roomates and that's not a good reason to stay together, again, these are not things that are up to you to deceide. Your justifying the emotional cheating by saying that the marriage is dead and so it lessens the crime, which it doesn't. IF she ends the marriage than you may consider the "signs", as long as you continue to engage in this situation you both are guilty.
I understand what you are saying, believe me. I know whatit is like to want somebody beyond any reason, to do anything for that person, but also to shut out reality and convince myself I am in the right and that this is all for "love", or its fate. Please consider this, I'm not trying to convince you as it seems you will not change your mind and I know its hard to see what I'm seeing when your in the situation and want to see something else. It's wrong Chicago, justifying your feelings and convincing yourself it was "meant to be" will see somebody hurt in the future.
When you do the right thing the right result will happen for you. Please see that.
Yes, you can walk away. You can, but you don't want to and therefore, you won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago95
She's either not as dissatisfied with her marriage as she has led you to believe, or she has a higher tolerance for a bad relationship than you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago95
If you're that sure, tell her to call you when her divorce is final. In the meantime, leave her alone to make her decision. Your constant availability and urging yourself on her is actually what's making it possible for her to continue in this holding pattern, delaying making a decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago95
A few more months of constant interaction behind her husband's back will produce a few more months of what you already have--vacillation, hesitation, and indecision.Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago95
Oh they're signs all right. Signs that she loves the excitement of the forbidden (you) without wanting to give up the comfort of the familiar (him). She's using you, and probably will keep doing it for as long as you let her. You may think you're waiting for her to decide, but actually, she's waiting for you to make her decide.Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago95
Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
All very good points. Thank you. However, know this... she initiated first contact, and subsequent e-mails and IM's. Says she cannot stop thinking of me (nor I her), she realizes that she made a wrong choice but is torn between staying in a situation she's expressly said is not too great. I am simply following my heart. In her heart she also feels the same thing. I've asked if she wants me out of her life... she said no. I can think of nothing more cruel than to (as you suggest) turn a cold shoulder to someone as special as she is and who is reaching out for help. That's not me. I did that 7 years ago... and still feel sick about it. Note: I have never offered her advice on her relationship with her husband nor on the subject of divorce. I fully recognize she has to be the one who makes that decision. Says it's so hard because she wants to be with me but not sure if she can divorce and live with those regrets too. Bottom line... if I had not left her life, she and I would be set. She feels trapped. So, maybe this paints a better picture and puts me in a different light?
What are your thoughts now? (For the record, my closest friend who is married and very honorable in his actions sees my side and is supportive) If she was happy in a marriage, why talk to an ex, go on dates with an ex? She's not that type of girl to just enjoy the fact that it's wrong. In fact that is what is making her sick because she knows its not right, but can't help it as she and I have so much more in common than her husband and misses all we had... because she doesn't have that in her marriage... even after counseling. Ultimately, she feels she made a mistake but doesn't know how to get out. It's her move I know on divorce but I do not see any logic nor humaneness in breaking contact with her in this time of need... did I mention she is some isolated and doesn't have many friends to talk to about this??
Just because she initiated the first contact doesn't mean it's right. I know you would love to think she would never do this to you, but she would. If she is married and it's to the point that the husband knows, and she isn't affected by that... I would worry. Explain that this relationship is not healthy emotionally for either of you... and you must be the one to end it, but this time with good reason. You may have been childish the first time, but from what I see... you haven't done much growing up since then. Not trying to be rude, but what adult thinks it's okay to have a time limit put on conversations and abide by it? If you want no restrictions, she will have to leave. However, do you want that hanging over your head? I would hope not. Please.. please.. please do some soul searching and find the truth and morality to this subject... it's just not right!
I'm not suggesting cruelty or turning a cold shoulder. Tell her how much you love her and how much it hurts to do the right thing. Tell her how much you hope she decides to get a divorce. All I'm suggesting is that you stop enabling her indecision.Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago95
She can help it, and she does know how, but your constant presence and availability makes it harder for her to act on her knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago95
The logic and humaneness is in not prolonging unnecessarily a wrong and hurtful situation. Every day that this goes unresolved adds to the karmic baggage that all three of you will have to carry away from it. Do the logical and humane thing and cut it short. If she divorces him and comes to you, your relationship will be healthier for it. If she decides to stick with her marriage, it will be easier to fix, and you will find it easier to move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago95
Just testing to see if last post worked
Yes it did
Fourteen years ago I met the love of my life. Love at first site. Dated for 4 years. Marriage was in future. Split was over little things... nothing fundamentally wrong. Went on to pursue my degree and lived on my own and found myself. Devastated to realize she had been married 6 years. Marriage was mainly rebound from me and a bit pressured. Says she never really loved him... always loved me... and wouldn'tve married if I had given her hope that I'd be back. Her marriage is sexless, emotionless, and no real connection/little in common. Marriage counseling has failed. Have been dating for 2 years now. Exchange birthday gifts and Christmas gifts. Family reaquainted with her. Sleeping together on weekends and taking vacations together. Talk to her/e-mail every day. Has told him she has feelings for me and she wants something different. Says she'll marry me. Going to counseling to get "tools" to get out of marriage and make decision. He doesn't believe in divorce (first wife left him) and she doesn't want to be the instigator of divorce.
Q is this. How long does general counseling of this type last? How long until she may act after counseling to file for divorce?
Spare me the details about "other fish in sea" and "married women off limits". She's different affair is different. Following my heart. Waiting is killing me but she's the one and no one else.
PS... I know there are alotta nay sayers out there. Have you heard of Dr. Nancy Kalish's book "Lost Loves Found" A therapist told me about it. It's a collection of stories about lost loves found again and how people ended perfectly good marriages to go back to their first true love. Goes into detail about how strong and deep a bond sometimes exists between those who really found true love and for one reason or another parted. IT HAPPENS AND you have Ph.D writing about it not too mention... much documentation via letters and stories.
I'm curious to know what one's response is now
Sparing the 'other fish in the sea' and the 'married = unavailable' and came up with nothing.
Good luck to you.
Right now you do not need to be the other guy 'that broke them up' in others eyes.
Be supportive of HER decisions without influencing them. Keep your distance as far as romance and dating until she is to a place where she is free to be in a relationship with you.
Your description certainly didn't sound like a "love of your life" sort of deal. I can't believe you fell for her story, as well. If you get together with this person, you are being disrespectful of an already existing relationship- how would you feel if somebody did that to you?
Try to play the tape ahead a bit to six years or so from now... when she's telling her new boyfriend that she's never loved you, is in a sexless relationship, but she just doesn't want to get divorced...
Well lets only hope she is telling the truth to you. But if you were the love of her life why did she take that walk to the alter? Why did she move on and not look back? Why didn't she contact you before she took the leep into marriage? Maybe she is the love of your life, but are you truly the love of her life? Maybe she needs someone and having you there to catch her when she falls from divorce is comforting to her and that's why she tells you those things. Will she still be there or stay? Well we don't know. But I would be cautious and just back away a bit. Because no matter what, you are the other guy. Would she divorce had you not come back in to her life? Maybe not, so you are the other guy, the one that split them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago95
Every type of affair is different, don't try to justify your situation.
If you want us to spare the only details that seem to matter, why the hell are you here?
Another thing you need to think about. You need to really wonder what is going on in the counsling. Are they there to divorce easily, which there is no easy divorce. Or are they really there to work on the marriage. You only know what she tells you. Trust me I have been in the shoes on the other side. I had the affair and regretted it. But the whole time I was with the other man acting happy, I was at the same time in counseling working on my marriage with out him knowing. You don't know.
Ask Me Help Desk - Search Results, This is the whole story.
It could be years!Quote:
Q is this. How long does general counseling of this type last?
She can have a divorce anytime she pleases.Quote:
How long until she may act after counseling to file for divorce?
From your history, its obvious you only see what you want to anyway. Like any common dope fiend. Except she is your drug of choice, and you may need help, more than she does.Quote:
Spare me the details about "other fish in sea" and "married women off limits".
Cheating is cheating, your reasons will never change that, or justify the actions of you both. Your cheaters, and both of you are not healthy enough to sustain a healthy relationship.Quote:
She's different affair is different.
Thats why you have wasted YEARS, on someone who is sick, and unavailable.Quote:
Following my heart.
Thats what all addicted people say.Quote:
Waiting is killing me but she's the one and no one else.
My advice, get help with your problems, you really are out there, and need to get back to reality, so you can build a fresh happy life.
Whatever it was that was "little" to break you up in the first place was probably not so "little" at that time. visit that and figure it out.
Also...
What I don't understand is if she is interested in divorce what is there to counsel on? What' the wait... two years is longer than it needs to be if you are who she would like to be with. Life is short and Karma's a b!tch. Be careful what energy you draw back to yourself.
Believe in yourself enough to know that you deserve better than this part time love.
Leave her to decide what it is that she is going to do, right now she has it all. Cake and eating it too. It's not fair to you.
Well it seems to me like you guys are soulmates, I have not read dr. nancy's book though, but my beleifs are if soulmates are lucky enough to find each other in this life, then they should make every effort to be together and if bith individuals are married or one is married they SHOULD DIVOURCE THEIR SPOUSE.
That's my take on the situation, good luck to you:)
I am not sure I believe that someone should divorce for their *soul mate*
I do believe in lost love mates 'found' but you have to have patience.
It is her decision but often I see perfect couples, soul mates, two people totally in love but the married one, as much as they may want out of the marriage, stays because it is what they are use to and comfortable with.
She may want to leave. She may want to be with you but she may be afraid and put it off indefinitely.
I really do not think you should encourage her to divorce. She has to make her decisions in her time. All you can do is ask her to keep you informed with things like when does she think she will have her divorce.
Hi:
Very complicated story so very brief. Ex-girlfriend whom I dated for 4 years in college and should've married. We were set, but I messed it up (not sexually, just stupid stuff like picking on her)--I hadn't really matured then. Went to grad. Schools and lost touch but I never stopped thinking over. She got married as she didn't hear from me and thought unresolvable differences. Now, 6 years later, she admits she doesn't want to spend the rest of her life with a guy 15 years her senior. Never loved him and still doesn't. BUT, doesn't want to be the divorcer. Husband doesn't believe in divorce... except for adultery. Knows of affair, but she hasn't told him details. This is husband's 2nd wife (first wife had affair and divorced him) and he married only for companionship. Marriage counseling: Failed as husband not interested. Affair keeps going on with no end. Says we'll be together... she's even going to counseling to get help to get out. Q is this: If I end it how likely is she to realize how much she misses me and divorces him? Or is it unlikely? Can't go forward, can't go back. Stuck. She's the one.
I don't think she is the one. YOU told us she doesn't want to be the divorcer, that would tell me something, that she really doesn't love you. Sorry just an opinion. Your wasting your time, and being involved with a married woman. Ex girlfriend or whatever, you have no business being with her.
Leave her alone, she's married. Happily or unhappily, she's married. She's obviously not interested in leaving him. She's having her cake and eating it too.
Great advice!Quote:
Originally Posted by chihuahuamomma
You never get involved with someone married.
Thanks but my questions were if I am to give an ultimatum or give her time, how likely is it that she would divorce him after knowing how life is with me and experiencing the real possibility that I won't be around. And BTW, she reciprocated e-mails, phone calls, everything. Hard to walk away from one's faith because it damn well certainly feels that this is happening for a reason. The only girl I've ever loved and who just happens to not have ever stopped loving me, is in a bad marriage from start, has been dating me, gone on vacation with me, and says wants to be with me seems all to coincidental. Maybe this is where faith comes in and I must walk away so that she can walk with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
If she wanted to be with you she would get a divorce and walk away from her so called unhealthy marriage. She's cheating and so are you.
Not wanting to be a divorcer is just a BS excuse.
Leave her alone to sort her drama out , if there is any , and find someone who's available.
Does she love you enough to get a divorce?
The answer to that will lead you to a more defined answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by none12345
Wow! That's something I never really considered. When I ask her if she loves him, she says no. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with him? No. She and I are even seeing counselors/pscyh because she feels this is happening for a reason and wants to know what's holding her back and mine has told me to keep seeing her, that her issues are workable, that it's apparent she loves me and were it not for that, it might be hopeless. Guess love conquers all? But a real Q is this. Her dysfunctional husband is also seeing a counselor... she doesn't know why nor has asked (they talk very little). Might he be trying to cope or try to justify getting a divorce as he has told her he doesn't believe in divorce but also stated adultery is grounds for divorce. Can't help but think if she really told him what was going on, he wouldn't be so understanding. But she doesn't want to be the adulterer... even though she already is. Thoughts?
1) She's married so she's off limits nor matter how you see it.
2) She knows you want to be with her, so if she wanted to be with you, she would divorce her husband regardless of all the excuses.
3) Unless she divorces her husband, you need to move on with your life. If she comes to you then great (but emphasis on after she divorces), but you can't put your life on hold for a married woman.
4) You don't want to end up being the guy she cheats on her husband with and you don't want to be her rebound.
Explain this: The counselor I see disagrees with those thoughts as I mentioned earlier. In fact, she knows of situations where while it takes time... a divorce does happen. Goin' on 2 years dating and she's never home with him on weekends. MAIN Q IS THIS... ANY IDEA AS TO WHY HE'S SEEKING INDIVIDUAL COUNSELING? And BTW, if you knew the whole story she's essentially married only by paper. Crazy I know... but going on vacation, staying over, dating essentially kills any chance for her current marriage succeeding eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by I wish
We don't have the answers to that. The point is, she's married so you got to stay away from her mess until she figures it out.
Only if she's single, then you can consider a relationship with her. Let her sort out your problems, while you live your own life. If she wants to be with you, she will find you.
Don't you want more?
Don't you want a woman to love you with every fiber of her being? Want to show you off to the world? Bring you home to her parents and share her life with you?
Don't you think you deserve that?
This married woman cannot give that to you.
Chicago. You asked us a question, we answered it. You don't like it. If you want to continue your affair, go ahead but I can GUARANTEE you it won't end the way you want it to.
If she loves you SO much, why can't she SEPARATE from her husband? Get her own place or move in with you? If she causes the separation and KNOWS that it's because she was cheating and left him for you, don't you think he'd file for divorce? Then she wouldn't have to be concerned with being the "divorcer".
How would we know why he's seeing counseling?Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago95
Because his wife is screwing another man?
Because his wife won't talk to him?
Because he feels cuckolded?
You post reeks of self righteous justification to continue in this cheating charade.
If your GF really cared about you and genuinely wanted to diminish the pain her husband is feeling then she would file for divorce now and cease this stupidity around not wanting to initiate the separation. A person with integrity and compassion would do what is required to avoid hurting people.
It may well be a marriage on paper only, but her actions in these circumstances only serve to make matters worse for all concerned.
Take off your 'rose colored glasses'. Open your eyes. Wake up. Something is not quite right here.
I agree with many of your points but I'm not wearing rose colored glasses. Her marriage was bad from beginning (married for all the wrong reasons). Many offers by him for her to leave (if you want to divorce me... go ahead... I'm not going to change) and prayed for something to happen. I called 8 wrenching years later and we picked up right where we left of on conversation. She aknowledged this was happening for reason & glad I was back in life. Can't help feel this is life correcting for what shoudn'tve happened. One thing to know about me is I took her for granted maybe... got cocky (not really me). That happened with her the first time around. Never again. Yes, she should divorce. It's why she's seeking counseling (4 months) to figure out why she's hesitant (b/c he's got a "good heart") and she's making progress. Once counselor and her sort through issues it is her hope that she will divorce with a clear conscience knowing she tried everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini54
One other Q is this: Don't you think she should tell her parents? They have much influence over her and put her husband in higher regards than her as he cooks, cleans, etc. while she brings home the paycheck. Makes her upset and me too because they don't know all the lies (how he's killed her dreams and wishes, never any intimacy, connection). He's 15 years older than her and has neck problems enough to not do factory work but app. He's able to swing a sledge hammer and bust up cement steps and put in a wood entry way. (A first rate BS con man if you ask me).
2nd Q: He says he doesn't believe in divorce except adultry is grounds for divorce. He suspected his first wife of having an affair. But isn't it possible that if she told him everything he could change his belief and file?
One other bit: She has Int. cysti. Which can limit sex because pain. With him it never happened-too painful. When we did it, miraculously no pain! Explain that. Seems to be another sign that she and I are supposed to be together. Recog. It's wrong but she and I both know we want to marry and we're in our 30's not just some 18 year olds who aren't aware of implications.
Chicago, your making all kinds of excuses why she is with this man. It is what it is. YOU have no right butting in their business, whether it's a past girlfriend or what. How can she make her marriage work with you in the picture. Besides if your going to counseling for this and there telling you to stick by her, then your at the wrong counselor. What comes around goes around... remember that... someday it will come back to bite you.. Don't mean too be harsh its just the facts... Let her live her life alone with her husband, sorry butt out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully123
Her marriage wasn't working from get go. No sex, no nothing. Tell me how likely it is that she'd divorce him if I walked away. Scene is diifferent this time... because before I came around she wasn't happy (depressed) and just thought her marriage of no hope or dreams was typical.
She knows how I feel and how things really could be. Do you think she'd still stick it out with him and forgoe her real feelings, sex, and happiness or would she probably realize she has to divorce?
I can't understand how she can consider going back considering all the damage she's done with having an affair. We have 17 years of history!! We have gone as far as we can except being married. :( I so want this to work. If I have to have faith and walk away I will... but want to know your input on the odds of her leaving him after 6 years of marriage and no kids. Believe me, neither of us would be doing anything like this if we didn't intend on marrying. She's even said many times she will marry me. Moot point. I just don't want to as she says maybe "wait till he dies" or he divorces her. She says divorce is "unlikely" but many things she said we're unlikely and have changed. I.E vacation. Please help.. agony!
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