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I couldn't agree more with hheath. All I can do us sit here and think of my friends daughter, who is also very mature, and like heath mentioned, has not even started her period, to think if her saying a 20 year old man makes my blood curdle. I can't possibly imagine what a man sees in a young teen.
I think you're here looking for validation for being a pedophile, because let's face it, you are.
You are grooming this girl and if I had a way I would find you and protect her. Do you realize I am in my 40s and the guilt of my abuse still haunts me. I blame myself at times, even knowing it is not my fault. I take no pride in my appearance and still struggle with that as if I don't look nice then I won't be hurt. If I hide my feelings and stay away from others I will be safe. My abusers groomed me to be the perfect girlfriend/wife. I stayed silent until I was an adult. Just because you are not having sex with her does not mean you are not abusing her.
You say she has had a rough life why are you making it worse? You could also suggest counseling for her so she can not get into bad relationships. Please listen to someone who went through this. If you really truly love her you will stop seeing her, and get help. If it is meant to be when she is an adult then you two can date. Let her enjoy her life as a teen, let her grow up and experience a normal life.
I could write more about the long term consequences of what you are doing and I hope you are listening and stop this now. If you don't I hope someone rescues this little girl so she does not suffer like I did.
You say she had a rough life yet her parents and grandparents "love" you, are these the same people that made her life "rough"? I am inclined to believe they also are not apt to make the best judgment either.
I never said that I was an expert, but I gave my own experience that I've seen firsthand. Every word that the experts have said here are valid, but I just feel like they aren't taking into consideration that they could really be in love, and that OP might just be a decent guy, and that that girl is on the same mental level as him.
Yes I agree that if the OP isn't giving us the full story, and is just looking for ways to manipulate and trap her in a relationship, then that isn't right. I will be the first person to go hunt him down. But I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe everyone should read his question and give him the benefit of the doubt. I know there are many twisted people out there, but there are also many nice people out there. I've known friends who dated much older or much younger people, and a lot of them were religious(Catholic and others) and shared the same beliefs. Their parents approved of their dating choices after meeting them, even if they were apprehensive at first when learning about the age gap. I'm just saying that he could just be a decent guy, and if her grandparents met him and approve, then I'm sure that means more than random people online giving their opinion, no matter how much of an expert they are.
So I guess my advice would be just to keep getting to know her. You haven't really known her for an extended time yet. Don't try to rush into marriage yet, even if her grandparents would allow it. You can hang out with her and date her, but make sure you stay true to your word of not doing anything sexual with a minor. Just get to know her man, and by the time she becomes legal for you to date, you will have known her for over 4 years, and you'll know if she's the kind of person that you can imagine spending your life with. But just be weary that no matter how mature she is now, her tastes could change down the road.
So don't have too much expectations, but I'm sure if your "love" is true as you say, it will withstand a short 4 years.
So you don't want negative comments but you are a grown man who is dating a child. If you are attracted to a 14 year old child you need counseling, seriously. She should not have become your girlfriend because the moment you realized she was 14, something in your brain should have said "child - inappropriate - grossly inappropriate".
You say she'll be going to college "really soon". Uhm, not really. Try four years from now. She must be what, a freshman or at the oldest a young sophomore?
You're talking marriage to her? How is this beneficial to a girl who has aspirations for college? To marry a much older guy before she even knows herself, has any idea what she wants out of life?
You can say she's "mature" for her age. Incidentally, that's pretty much what every pedophile says about the victims they coerce into "relationships". Every older person who inappropriately takes advantage of situations like a bad homelife and offers some alternative to what that child knows is not good, such as marriage - claims that the young person is "mature" for their age. Well, get this - teenagers ARE mature in a lot of ways. That doesn't mean they are ready to date adults.
At 14 she's really not even old enough to date at all, much less talk marriage with an adult man. I wasn't even allowed to go on a date until I was 16 and yes, I was very mature. I was a straight A student, in every club, had a lot of responsibility at home, was not a giggling airhead type - I was a responsible, mature girl. But I was still a girl. This girl you supposedly "love" is also still a girl. 14 is the age kids start freshman year of high school - many kids are 14 in the eighth grade. This is a CHILD.
You need counseling to learn appropriate boundaries. Leave this girl alone - don't be her friend, just be done. She needs parents and guidance, not a predatory guy who's taking advantage of her insecurities and crap home life for some half-baked weirdly inappropriate "relationship". You are way, way, way off base here. You are "that guy" who goes after girls who are still children as an adult man. Is that who you want to be? No exceptions, no explanations, no conditions - you ARE that guy. Think about it.
Look, couldn't you just wait a few more years until you both are older?
I could sit here and point out the dangers in this, but I won't.
When I was 14, I dated an 18 year old. With my parents approval. He was a family friend, so that was the only reason why they allowed it in the first place. What I can remember most about it was I felt as if I was too young to be dating. My mind as well as my body was different then. Like a little girl, because I was a little girl, and like most 14 year olds, they don't know what they want. You may think she does, but she doesn't.
She is still very young. Allow her to be young. She has plenty of time fir grown up things.
Trust me, there are many girls (20 year old girls) out there. Perhaps you should consider someone your age, and hey, maybee up the road you two might end up together. Just not now.
Wild guess. You're 14, aren't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by MadlyInLove
If he IS giving us the full story, he is an immature man who is leveraging the bad home situation of a child and grooming her for a predatory relationship. He may not intend to do so and may not have the self-awareness to know he is doing so, but that's what he is doing. This child will not be of an age of a consent for several years yet. To suggest that he continue to get to know her is grossly inappropriate and shows very poor judgement on your part. He needs to leave her alone and get counseling for himself. What he is doing could ruin both of their lives. There is no angle, no excuse, no explanation, not contrivance available to make a 20 year old going after a 14 year old and calling her his "girlfriend" appropriate or remotely OK. It's a predatory relationship.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadlyInLove
No. I don't get the impression she is 14. Her verbage is almost adult like. A very young adult, but an adult.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alty
Well, that makes it 100 times worse. That an adult could give the advice she's given, urging on a predator, is abhorrent!Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma1999
What she doesn't seem to understand is that her opinion and the things she's seen, don't amount to a pile of nuts on this thread. This is about the law, not about opinion, and an adult, mentioning marriage to a child, dating her, buying her things, etc. etc. well, everything the OP said makes it clear that he's grooming this child. That's very much against the law, and not subject to opinion.
Worse, the OP doesn't want to hear the facts, he wants someone to agree with him so he can continue grooming this child for his own pleasure, and this Madly person has now given him the encouragement he was looking for. She's urging him to continue breaking the law.
This makes me sick.
awtactical, I have to wonder if you have ever had a psychological evaluation to discover why you are attracted to children. I am not going to speak from a legal standpoint, you have already heard that. I am going to speak from a psychological standpoint.
I understand you are saying that she is mature, however according to Erik Erikson's Developmental Stages, this girl is an adolescent and is in the life stage of Identity vs Role Confusion. You, on the other hand, are in the life stage of Young Adulthood, which means young adults need to form intimate, loving relationships with other people. Success leads to strong relationships, while failure results in loneliness and isolation.
It appears that you need to form an intimate loving relationship with someone, however you haven't been able to do so with someone your age. Rather than continuing on in your search of finding a relationship with a peer, you are afraid of loneliness and isolation. In order to prevent yourself from being lonely, you are quite successfully grooming a child who is psychologically confused with her own identity. At her age it is impossible NOT to be confused with her identity no matter how mature she is.
By continuing this "relationship," whether sexual or not, you are quite effectively damaging her psyche. Neither you or she realize that now, but it will damage her as an adult.
It is quite obvious that you need a complete and comprehensive mental evaluation to determine your need/desire attract the attention of someone so much younger than you. Is it possible that you have the maturity of a 14 year old?
When I was 14, I was SURE of a LOT of things.
Two years later, I was SURE of a lot of DIFFERENT things.
Two years after THAT, I was SURE of ANOTHER different set of things.
Three years after THAT, I was SURE of yet ANOTHER different set of things.
Five years after THAT, and the things I am SURE of are STILL changing.
I am NOT the same person, with the same set of interests, goals, and values as I was at 23. Or 21. Or 18. Or 16. Or 14.
The person I was at 14 bore little resemblance to who I was at 16, and only a passing resemblance to who I was at 18. By the time I turned 21, almost NOTHING I was SURE of at 14 was the same. The person I was at 14 would not recognize the person I've become, at 26. I've learned, grown, matured, and changed too much.
No matter how SURE she is about wanting to date you, it WILL change. She CAN'T know what she wants out of life, because she lacks the knowledge and experience to know what her options are. Five years ago, she probably wanted to be a Disney princess. In another five years, maybe she'll want to be a nun, or a lesbian, or a doctor, or an undertaker, or the president of Russia.
The point is, she's WAY too young to be making life changing decisions. It doesn't matter HOW mature she is. She lacks the real world knowledge and experience to know what those decisions will mean. She has 10 pieces of a 1000 piece puzzle, and you're expecting her to be able to see the entire picture.
Leave her alone. Let her grow up and find the pieces on her own. If, after she's old enough to have enough experience to see the big picture, she still wants to date you, then go for it. However, that probably won't happen for at LEAST 10 years. Relationships started at 18-20 almost never last, because people are STILL too young to know who they are or what they want.
Go figure out who YOU are, and WHY you want to date and marry a child, before you do anything else. Maybe by the time you figure that out, she'll be legal.
Actually if you read my previous posts I stated that I was 20 years old, and that I was in high school just several years back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alty
He*Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma1999
Yeah I'm a guy, sorry for the confusion. Guys can be madly in love too.
Means that you lose all rationality. You don't realize what is healthy and unhealthy. This relationship, as it may be, is totally and completely unhealthy to both parties.Quote:
Guys can be madly in love too.
Being mature means that you think not only with your heart, but with your head as well.
Well me being madly in love with anyone doesn't affect how I look at this, because I am looking at it from the outside. I've seen friends of mine go through relationships like these before in the past, and I haven't seen any problems as long as both parties are true to their word. And if her guardians approve, and she approves of the guy, then it should be okay as long as he isn't breaking the law by doing sexual things with her. Not all 20 year olds care just about sex, some care about an emotional connection with someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Madly, do you have any education in psychology?
Have you studied Erik Erikson's Developmental Stages? If you, you don't have a dog in this fight.
I don't have a professional background in psychology, but I have taken a class in high school and later in college. And yes I have studied the Developmental Stages, but I'm not calling myself an expert.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Everyone can post here on this public forums, and I am free to post as well. I'm not calling myself an expert, but I replied to this because I have seen similar situations back in high school.
As long as he isn't doing anything illegal and she wants to date him, then all of our opinions mean nothing. I understand everyone's points, they are very valid. I am merely playing devil's advocate here because I believe that as long as he isn't doing anything illegal and it's consensual, then it's okay.
The negative psychological trauma from a relationship like this doesn't usually show up for many years. Usually several years after the relationship ends and they realize it's warped their ability to have a healthy relationship or function as an independent adult.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadlyInLove
At 20, the friends you've seen in relationships like this haven't reached the point where the damage is readily noticeable. By 30, when they realize that they have a string of controlling and manipulative relations behind them, because they never had the chance to learn how to function outside of a relationship (let alone how to have a healthy relationship), the effects will be MORE than noticeable.
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