I wish it were that simple. Unfortunately, after five years it's anything but.

So this week, I decided I was going to do my own thing and not run to her beck and call. Stand up for myself. She how she felt if I were to act like "I will see you when I see you". When I finally did see her, she started in on me saying "I feel like you don't even want to be here. Like you have better things to do or somewhere else you want to be". When I replied that I was just putting myself first like she did it caused another fight.

She said that she no longer puts me first because "she ran to me for the past five years" and it got her no where. Now she said she refuses to put herself out until I make a commitment to her to get engaged and then she will change. When I said that if that is her attitude - how could she expect me to make a commitment of getting engaged to someone who refuses to go to lengths for me now? Her response was, you know who I am and have known for the past five years. I did everything you wanted before and, again, it got me nowhere. So if you want things to change you have to make the commitment first.

She claims that the way she acts is based on the bitterness and resentment about not being engaged before after five years and that is what is causing her to act the way she does. She claims that she came running to me in the past and that is why she no longer does it without a commitment. The rub is - over the past two years - I would have married her if she didn't act like a selfish b*tch and actually put herself out there to do nice things for me and show me she could be a good, loving and trustful wife.

Always trying to be the reasonable person and always be the one to give in I ended up making the effort to end the fight (her respnose was "let's take a night and think about what we really want") - I asked what were we really fighting about (things that happened in the past?) and apologized. After this we made up.

So, we're back to the same situation again. Her telling me she loves me and planning to see me a few times a week. Nothing's changed. Apparently, she is locked on her mindset that she will not change until she is engaged.

I don't know what to do. As a person, she makes me extremely happy. I am more attracted to her (even after 5 years) than anyone I've ever dated, we have a million common interests and she constantly tells me she loves me and wants to marry me (which I believe she honestly would). Plus there is so much history and things were great in the past and I believe they do have the potential to be great in the future if she would just go back to being the way she was.

On the other hand, a marriage would her could be a disaster. As my current girlfriend, she is selfish, demanding, unwilling to compromise, and it appears to me that she always puts herself and her friends first over me. As an example, on her Facebook page - she only has pictures of her and her friends. None of me. If someone was proud of their boyfriend - wouldn't they want to advertise it?

So, do you believe it when she says her actions are solely based on not being engaged after five years? And that everything will drastically change once I make the commitment? Or, is it just a load of BS and she will never change and will always be selfish? If she really does only care about herself - then why the constant pressure and discussions about her wanting to be engaged to me?

The simple fact that after 5 years you have not solved, or resolved the issues between you, for the benefit of you both, tells me you shouldn't be together. That's just me.

Being engaged, and heaven forbid, married won't change the FACT that you two work LOUSY together, and worse, can't over come the obstacles before you. 5 years of this would wear me out.

It would be nice if the two of you could just start over... with a clean slate. Unfortunately, passed events and current suspicions are difficult to get over.

She very well may be upset about not being engaged at this point, but holding back her involvement in the relationship, until you put a ring on her finger, is plain manipulation. I don't know how much more talking about it the two of you can do. The timing seems to just be so off... relationships certainly have ebbs and flows, but you are taking turns being involved and uninvolved and don't seem to be often on the same page for very long.

I can certainly understand the concern about her being stubborn if she is refusing to try to work with you to make things better unless she gets engaged. What is more important, building a healthy relationship or a ring on her finger?

In your own mind, since you are so torn, you could get engaged and see if it truly does make any difference. If not, you simply break off the engagement and end the relationship once and for all. Or, offer a compromise... plan to become engaged after say six months of the two of you really putting forth the effort to work together to rebuild the relationship... consider couples counseling as well to learn some tools for better communication. Certainly if you are both serious, the relationship is worth six months of honest effort?

In the end, if you don't really trust her, and she is unwilling to stop texting or calling passed boyfriends or any other men, knowing how it causes you concern, don't get married. She is either serious about the relationship and working with you to see that both of your needs are met, or she isn't.

It would be tough, of course, to end things if you came to that decision, but in time you would find that there are other great girls out there... ones who you will have a great time with, have much in common with, can give your heart to, and who you will be able to trust fully.

I guess the question is am I being unreasonble? In her opinion, I am. In her mind, I should have no problem with her being in the same social situation with guys she used to date or texting other guys that "are her friends" - even though I know these guys want to date her. I should also have no problem with her doing whatever she wants "until we are engaged". At which point, she claims she will change. And I should simply deal with the fact that she is bitter from not being married and I am 100% responsible to solve the issue by getting engaged to her. According to her, this is the ONLY way it can be solved or that will bring about change. She refuses to live together again or work out any other solutions UNTIL she is engaged.

By way of example of how she acts, one of her x's is a bartender at a specific bar. She makes plans to go out with her friends and tells me that she is going to this bar because "she will get to drink for free there because of him and that's where alot of people she knows go". Considering their history, and the fact that her texting him has caused issues in the past, I say I would prefer if she goes to ANY OTHER of the 100 bars in our town but that one. She loses it and say I can't get over "my issues", that telling her where not to go is "controlling", she should be able to go where ever she wants and says she is not going to "put up with my sh*t". She hangs up on me.

Now, if it were me, and my x worked at a certain bar and she asked me not to go there because of that x. I would 100% not go there. She is of the complete opposite mindset. Me even suggesting that maybe she shouldn't go there = to her "controlling".

Now, I get it. I should trust her. And, in most respects I do (I don't think she's going there to cheat on me with her x). But it is the principal of something that could cause an issue that could easily be solved to try and make things easy on the relationship.

What bothers me is that no matter what she does - she ALWAYS feels 100% right and justified and if I don't like it... too bad. She claims that is the type of person she is (or has become) and I either can accept it or not.

Take the same night. After hanging up on me, she goes to her x boyfriend's bar anyway. She gets drunk with her friends. Calls me five times at 2am and leaves extremely drunken messages on my phone saying "where are you, pick up your phone, are you with another girl cheating, etc." When I play them back for her... she laughs/finds them hysterical and says that "she is funny" and that I should APPRECIATE the messages because at least I should know "she was thinking of me". She's 28!? The next morning, she calls me telling me "she doesn't want to fight", "she loves me" and "wants to see me badly".

So guess what, I give in and go over there. She wants to be affectionate and tell me she loves me that she doesn't want to go out drinking like that anymore. The next day, she tells me she made plans all this week to go to happy hour with her co-workers and again out with her friends. And that "I should hurry up and marry her" because she knows "plenty of guys who would jump at the chance".

Just from your side of things, and granted she is not here to share her perspective, it seems as though she is in the "wants to have her cake and to eat it too" category.

She has made it clear, apparently, that this is how she is and isn't going to change, so accept it or not. Question is, can you accept it? Do you want to accept it? You certainly don't have to.

Personally, I don't think she is ready to be in a committed relationship... certainly not marriage, at this point. She has done a nice job of keeping her fun times with friends and her relationship with you very separate. Do you ever go with her to these clubs? Have you met and spent time with these people she hangs out with? Do you have mutual friends that you do things with on a regular basis?

I think you know what you should probably do, but your heart is having a difficult time reconciling with it. Completely understandable.

A few possible options: set a time to spend really discussing (no arguing) what you both want and need in the relationship... make an agreement ahead of time that you will both practice listening and remaining calm (and decide after if a long term relationship is doable or not), or suggest taking a break from the relationship so that you can both reflect on what you need/want then see how you both feel, or cut your losses, end it now, hurt for awhile, spend time with family and friends, and move on so that you can be available to meet someone with a lot less drama involved.

I can probably jump to the conclusion that after 5 years and not living together, she doesn't want him in her 'friend' evolved life.

She has issues. Sex isn't the answer, no matter how good it is. And the 'you get along great' act is just that.. an act. If you get along great then you should be able to come to some form of compromise about how your relationship works without her getting in a huff and not getting her own way.

Quote:

---

And that "I should hurry up and marry her" because she knows "plenty of guys who would jump at the chance"

---

Seriously? They've probably already 'jumped' her. Sorry. But she's using you. WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO SEE THAT?!?!

I hope Santa brings you something useful for Christmas, spine, dignity... a new life...

We actually lived together for 2 years. It was great for 1 year and 10 months. The last two months lead to our downfall. Constant fights and bitterness over her not doing anything for me, coming home drunk at late hours and not telling me where she was, etc. When we broke up we both got new places.

I think we can all agree on one thing, comments aside... Yes, when we broke up - she was probably with other men. I dated a few other women - not by choice - but because I wanted to try and move on. I can accept that and put it behind me.

When we got back together, however, it was under the premise that we realized that we made a mistake, she wanted to be with me and only me, and we were working to get things back to good and get married. On my part, I stopped talking completely to all other women I may have been involved with. On her part, she claims that she still had the right to "talk" to other guys "who now may be her guy friends" but that she is not involved with any of them in an improper way.

This was the ordeal for the first few months of us getting back together. I suspected she was still talking to guys that she shouldn't be. But could never catch her doing anything wrong.

Today, however, to her credit, despite what many on here say, I KNOW that she is not out cheating on me - at least for the past month. She just doesn't have the time or ability to do it. When I'm not with her - she calls me or I know where she is. If she is cheating, she's not seeing the guy physically or spending any amount of time with him. As she's either only with me or out with her friends (and I am 99.9% positive when she's out with her friends - she's actually out with her friends).

That being said, I feel like she 100% puts herself and her friends before me. But she does it in such a cunning way that it makes me think I am paranoid and that I am being possessive and jealous.

For example, on her Facebook - all of her pictures are of her and her friends and none of me and her. She updates them constantly and ONLY posts pictures of her and her friends. Furhter, she does not indicate that she is "In a relationship" on her information. She just doesn't specify. When I made a comment about it. She claimed (1) that she doesn't have any recent pictures of us that's why she doesn't post them [which is partially true], (2) if I want to be her friend on Facebook to see her information I am more than welcome to, and (3)that if/when I got engaged to her - at that time she would change her status to "Married".

To me this seems like excuses. If it were me, I would be posting pictures of us all the time because I would be proud. And if I wanted to marry someone I would be advertising the fact that we're "In a Relationship", because I want to freaking marry them. She is the other way around. She's not going to go out of her way to do any of that until she is engaged.

Another example, yesterday morning out of the blue SHE called me first thing in the morning to tell me she loved me and that she couldn't wait to see me again. I thought, OK, this is rare and shows she really does care. Later that day she mentions that one of her girlfriends who she hasn't seen in months is coming over and they are going out. I told her to call me later and let me know what they are doing. The whole day passes and I don't hear from her. When I call her, she texts me back saying they're at dinner or doing this. She only calls me back AFTER her friend leaves - it's like she won't talk to me on the phone with her friend around? Now, I know she was actually with her friend, I saw their photos on Facebook (so it's not like she was with another guy) - but why the refusal to talk on the phone with her friend around?

My mindset is, if something is more important to her and I don't matter - that's fine. But at least tell me, I don't really want to be with you. And I'll move on.

But instead, it's like she's playing this game - constantly telling me she loves, telling me she wants to marry me, spending a majority of her time with me... but then doing whatever she wants or putting her friends first and then treating me as second class... and when I get mad about it and question her why someone who allegedly loves someone would act that way - she sees no problem with it, feels justified and insists that she loves me and wants to marry me and that I just make myself upset over things no one else rationale would be upset about. Like the previous things I've mentioned.

Am I crazy, overly jealous and making up issues that really aren't - and just don't know it?

Quote:

---

If it were me,

---

But its not you!

Quote:

---

it's like she won't talk to me on the phone with her friend around?

---

That would be rather rude when out and about, or having fun with friends, and honestly I would hate someone keep those kinds of close tabs on me.

Quote:

---

Am I crazy, overly jealous and making up issues that really aren't - and just don't know it?

---

I would put it another way, you are very insecure that makes you disruptive, and argumentative in a passive aggressive way, and can never take fault even when you claim to understand. Your expectations for others(her) is rather high, and unreasonable most times the way I see it.

I am not trying to put you down, maybe it's the way she makes you act, or the way she makes you react. I don't know, but the bottom line is neither of you has mastered the fine art of honest communications to resolve your issues in a way that benefits both. That's how couples define the relationship, and set boundaries of good behavior they can both agree to and abide by and after 5 years, you have none of that going for you, and that's a recipe for more of the same crap happening with the same outcomes that have come between you before.

I doubt either of you changes, as she will resist any sort of control, and you will never be happy without her being there to always reassure your fears and insecurity, and bolster your ego. Even now, after all the advice you have been given, you are still circling back to her actions you don't like and are mad you can't change. Frustrating as that is, you shouldn't change a partner but grow with them and accept them.

Obviously you can't do that, and that makes you incompatible for each other, but love is not enough to get you over the hump of being together, and working together to build a life. Unless you both meet in the middle, nothing will change.

You may not be crazy, but this relationship is insane, insanity being defined by, doing the same thing over, and over, and expecting different results. Do you agree that is what this whole relationship is like.

An update. After all your advice, I tried to realize that I maybe I have been too sensative and always thought the worst/expected too much from my girlfriend - possibly being jealous and expecting too much - which was causing the problems. So, I have been trying to make a serious effort - not to do any of that.

It just doesn't seem to work. She's not out cheating and we get along well when were together, but it's just small things that make me ask myself - how can this be the woman I spend the rest of my life with who acts so selfish and only thinks of herself?

For example, her birthday is next month. I planned a trip for the two of us to go abroad. Since we won't be here for her actual birthday, I asked her a hundred times if she wanted to do something with her friends and family - and possibly my friends too before we left. A hundred times she told me no, she didn't want to do anything this year. The past few years I have always planned something for her birthday. Without her mentioning anything to me, asking me if I wanted to be involved in planning it or invite any of my friends, or even asking me if I would be available, last night, out of the blue, I get an evite from her - for a birthday dinner she planned with just her friends and family. Granted she invited me. But, as her boyfriend who asked her a hundred times if she wanted to do something, I couldn't believe she wouldn't even check with me first to see if that day was good? And, it makes me look like an a**, because now all her friends and family think I didn't plan anything - even though I asked her a hundred times. When I mentioned that I wished she was as least considerate enough to have asked me before hand if the date worked. She did what she always does, refuses to admit that she could ever do anything wrong, called me "unreasonable" and told me "It's my f'ing birthday - I can plan whatever I want with my friends. Get over it.". This caused an argument - which I had to again diffuse by apologizing MYSELF?!

Of course, after my apology, she was nice again - and went out of her way to call me to tell me how much she loved me and couldn't wait to go on vacation with me. Then she proceeded to list all the things she wants me to buy her for her birthday even though I already gave her a trip abroad?!

The next day, I see on her Facebook that she posted on a random guy's wall that "She was also having a bad day :(". This was just minutes after telling me she couldn't wait to spend all weekend with me. God forbid I even bring it up - because I already know the answer. "He's a friend of mine I met when we broke up. I'm not alowed to leave messages for guy friends?". I know the truth, heard from a friend, he's some dude she thought was attractive and tried to be with when we broke up. I ask myself - what would she say if I was still contacting someone like that?

In my head, I know I don't want to marry someone who doesn't put me first, feels entitled to do whatever she wants and who seems to only care about herself and money. What kind of life will it be when I can't trust my wife and she always puts herself and her wants before me or, god forbid, our future children? But I keep hoping at age 28 she'll grow up and grow out of it. When I'm with her she makes me happier than I've ever been and her family has become closer than my parents to me. But I can't get over how selfish she is.

So the question is, how do you even try to leave someone - who you don't trust and could possibly be the most selfish person in the world - but you're in love with, makes you happier than anyone you've ever met, constantly tells you she loves you and wants to marry you, and have been dating for half a decade?

Quote:

---

Quote by talaniman, from previous posting,
I would put it another way, you are very insecure that makes you disruptive, and argumentative in a passive aggressive way, and can never take fault even when you claim to understand. Your expectations for others(her) is rather high, and unreasonable most times the way I see it.

---

You diffused nothing with yourself righteous, half hearted apology, as she was still upset by you questioning her plans, and you were resentful of a so called slight of consideration. I honestly would have said nothing had It been me. Obviously she wanted to do it her way. As she said, it was her birthday. I don't think by your recent example that she is as selfish as you say, but more you being very insecure when you have no control.

However, with the 5 years of history together, I think maybe I would be insecure in this relationship... naw, I would have been gone long ago, and why you have stayed is a mystery to me.

Quote:

---

So the question is, how do you even try to leave someone - who you don't trust and could possibly be the most selfish person in the world - but you're in love with, makes you happier than anyone you've ever met, constantly tells you she loves you and wants to marry you, and have been dating for half a decade?

---

You do it face to face, get it over with, deal with the emotional fallout that cannot be avoided, and disappear from each others lives.

I agree... if it doesn't feel right to you, end it face to face and just simply say, "It just doesn't feel right. It's not going in the direction I had hoped it would. I need to break this off now."

It won't be easy, but it will get better and it will set your heart free.

You say she makes you happier than anyone you have ever met? Just wait to see how happy and in love you will be with someone you feel you can have a more balanced relationship with and actually trust!

As I have said to others before: You can love someone, but that doesn't make them the best partner for you.

Time to stand tall and take control over your own life. For the first time, in 5 years.

Daunting prospect I'm sure. But you know the best thing about the eventual outcome, you won't have some selfish, self centered, self indulgent, greedy little brat in your life that is going to continually weigh you down with doubt for the rest of your life.

DoulaLC is spot on with how much happier you'll be with someone who actually treats you like you're special, wanted, needed, appreciated and loved.

It won't happen overnight, but it will happen.

Start looking forward to a bright and cheery future, just be sure next time to have a little more strength and self confidence than what you've had in this relationship.

Good luck!

Wow this is my exact situation. I feel for you man. I love the girl to death but I seriously can't take any more this crap! Whenever I call her out she always finds a way to turn it around on me, making me into the bad guy and completely denying any sort of inappropriate altercations with these other guys she texts all the time. I don't know what to do!