I agree with Chuff, you have a different moral outlook and how you wish she would be, sadly this is not who she is. It's not your fault, or her fault. You two simply don't mix because of her chosen career path. Obviously, you two need to come to a COMPROMISE! Not a sacrifice, relationships don't work that way. You either solve the problem together, or it tears you apart. Right now you are torn apart. I don't see her changing, and if she likes it, she shouldn't have to. You have to sit down, explain it all and then see what she has to say and make a valid assessment of the relationship.

I agree with the others commitment will not change her or your relationship. It is what she loves and you lack trust or simply do not like the idea of other guys seeing her body.
So you either have to get over it or maybe help her find some other work that she would enjoy or find a more compatible girl.

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Originally Posted by chuff

Bluedog,

I may get hanged for this by everyone else, but I don't see what therapy is going to do for you in this situation. She is who she is, and you can't except her for it. Therapy isn't going to change that. Your emotional state is out of whack. You want her, but she causes emotional havoc. Nothing against her, but is she worth what your doing to yourself? A relationship is supposed to benefit two people, and your enjoying certain benefits, but taking an emotional fall to get them. Is it worth the fall?

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I appreciate the comment and will think on it. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by talaniman https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/amhd_i...s/viewpost.gif

This isn't about her stripping, its about your unrealistic expectations.

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Your trying to change someone who doesn't want to be changed.

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Unrealistic expectations of... you work 2-3 times a month in a job that, given the current level of our relationship, causes a lot of stress and discomfort for me/us

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More discomfort for you than her.

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While I continue to pay 70% of your bills, shouldn't you consider 3-4 times a month at another job for our long term health?

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Why should she, your already paying 70% of her bills. Why should she change for you?

Your trying to buy this female, and its not working, not only are your expectations unrealistic, but so are your methods.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Your trying to change someone who doesn't want to be changed.


More discomfort for you than her.


Why should she, your already paying 70% of her bills. Why should she change for you?

Your trying to buy this female, and its not working, not only are your expectations unrealistic, but so are your methods.

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True, more discomfort for me. But my discomfort has caused distance in our relationship, and damaged the very things she loved about being in it. I would think there would be a vested interest or priorities.

I'm not trying to be stubborn or disagreeable. Perhaps I'm just lost and cast myself in her role and say it would be easy to give it up. But that's truly not putting myself in her perspective. What it truly means to her to make a lifestyle change when she's not ready to.

Unfortunately wanting to 'accept her the way she is' 'learn to not be jealous' 'just trust her' is easier said that done.

I don't know the best way to accomplish those things. I guess I will be working on compromise... or simply admitting that we are not compatible enough because we have different outlooks. Perhaps she's just sociologically advanced, and can separate or not place value on exclusivity when it comes to nudity. To me there's a value there... it definitely is not what it was before. I love the idea of a woman that believes that she is for her 'lovers' eyes only. Just as much as I love the idea of monogamy and the beautiful places that can take you that casual sex simply cannot (for me anyway).

I've changed greatly and I did truly feel a sense of freedom and peace a year ago when I could see her at work.. and even once found it exciting to see her dancing for another man, admiring her body with his eyes. But it's just a thin line between that comfort and jealousy/possessiveness. A sense that you are missing something that other men have... an insecurity and vulnerability from it. I just can't put my finger on it. I feel like if I could pinpoint it I could help not trigger those negative feelings. Perhaps it is simply because I know how (at times) I can see a naked woman and simply lust... and don't want others to feel that about her.

Perhaps the key is... what changed to make me lose that level of comfort?

LOL - she always compares it to Hollywood... "hey, so what if i was on screen having a sex scene with some guy....?"

It's all perspective I guess... thanks for listening.

I still think it may be a good idea to try and help her find a job she enjoys. Look for something in entertainment.
Like where I live they film a lot of movies and they are always looking for extras. Or if you have a place like a theatre that does plays or dancing.

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Perhaps the key is... what changed to make me lose that level of comfort?

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She became yours in your mind, and you don't like sharing, you think. All your problems.

Paying someone's bills, as you do, also makes you feel entitle to tell her what to do, and make demand, about what you think you deserve, and that's all screwed up.

What's so bad, you live apart, and have no freaking business paying her bills in the first place. Let me tell you straight up, your more than a boyfriend, you're a sugar daddy.

Why is that not healthy? Because you expect control, and compliance for what you do, driven by some very frustrating immature feelings.

I really don't think she will give up her freedom for the life you want her to lead. Sorry.

I totally understand where you are coming from about being jealous about her occupation. I wouldn't want my partner to take off all of their clothes for strangers to gwak at them and throw them money either.

I also know where she is coming from as well. My best friend is a stripper and I keep trying to help her get another job that is respectable. She likes the money that she makes stripping though. That is why she doesn't want to stop. It is easy money.

You can't force someone to change, espically if they don't want to change. If you have to give someone an ultimatum in a relationship, maybe the relationship isn't worth having. It isn't fair for you to give her an ultimatum and it isn't fair for her to make you feel like you need to give her an ultimatum. (She obviously doesn't know why it is a big deal for you to accept the fact that she is a stripper) But, you started dating her knowing that she is a stipper, so it isn't fair for you to ask her to stop. It doesn't sound like this relationship is good for you.

Like I said, I wouldn't want my partner to strip either. I wouldn't want all these people looking at what is mine. That would make me jealous as well. (You are not alone in that boat) So, if you don't want to have those feelings (which only you can change them) and she is not willing to get another occupation (which only she can make that decision), then I think that it would be best for the two of you to go your separate ways.

But, like I said before, you met her knowing that she was a stripper and you were okay with it then, so you need to figure out whether you can deal with this or not and if you can't then you need to move on and find a woman who is more compatible for you. You can't force her to change when you accepted her for who she was when you first started dating.

Good luck with everything.

You've gotten so much good advice here, I don't have a lot to add, but I would like to point out that if your girlfriend really feels that badly about not contributing financially, there are other things she could do. Stripping may be easy for her, but it's not worth the turmoil it brings to your relationship. Honestly, it would kill me to see my girlfriend sitting on other people's laps, exchanging emails, etc.

Since she doesn't mind evening hours, how about being a wait person in a high end restaurant? Some of those folks make hundreds in tips in one night! She has to be willing to work with you and find a job that will be less torturous for you. She won't be able to strip forever, she might as well start thinking of other things she might enjoy.

If she's unwilling to compromise, I don't think I'd stick around. I wish you the best...

I just want to add one thing here:

If she was paying 70% of the bills, and asked YOU to get a different job that paid less, had fewer benefits you cared about, and that you HATED every moment you were there---how would you feel?

How about you go work part time at McDonald's, or in a book bindery, or some other menial job that just sucks away your should, and let HER pay the bills, and see how much YOU like it.

You are asking her to give up a lot, with absolutely NOTHING in it for her other than you. Do you really think that you're worth her indepence, her self-worth, and her freedom?

As far as some of the other suggestions about ways to get "good money" that are "more respectable", please remember that those jobs are ALSO more restrictive.

This relationship isn't going to work, because the OP is too possessive to believe in his woman. It's JUST a job. If she gave massages for a living, would you eventually have issues with the fact that she touches naked men all day? Even though that's a more "respectable" job?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Paying someones bills, as you do, also makes you feel entitle to tell her what to do, and make demand, about what you think you deserve, and thats all screwed up.

Whats so bad, you live apart, and have no freaking business paying her bills in the first place. Let me tell you straight up, your more than a boyfriend, your a sugar daddy.

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That is an interesting perspective I hadn't really explored. We aren't living together per se, but spent all but 1-2 nights a month together for 6+ months. I don't go to my place for days at a time... the money was a gradual shift.

From getting groceries... to the telephone bill now and then... up to rent... so that she wouldn't have to go to work because I didn't want her to. She didn't really want to either... but prefers that to a set schedule. If she was a cashier, I probably wouldn't be paying for anything but food (and have lots extra to then take her on the town, vacations, travel, etc - that we can't afford now)

I don't feel taken advantage of in that way... it was always, always my idea and decision. But you may be right that I feel taken advantage of in that if I'm going to pay 80% of your bills... you should 'sacrifice' doing what you want to do for money, and do something you don't, because you only have to work 15 hours a week instead of 40. And if it makes me happy, 15 hours a week isn't so bad...

I haven't consciously thought that... but maybe that's what's happening.. and obviously not healthy.


Thanks.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I still think it may be a good idea to try and help her find a job she enjoys. Look for something in entertainment.
Like where I live they film a lot of movies and they are always looking for extras. Or if you have a place like a theatre that does plays or dancing.

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She is a musician. She's working with a local artist who is on a small label and does have paying gigs at some fairly famous (50-200 people) venues. They are working on some collaboration... and expect her to take the stage in a few months.

Of course she was thinking about how to market herself and made a comment about being able to tell guys at her strip club to come see her perform downtown... generate a crowd, following, etc. She's obviously nice to look at and that helps musicians of course. And of course I just feel a resentment to... ok, you're going to get paid for singing (great voice), and still go strip as a cross-marketing effort? I can logically see that... but inside I just see my own feelings of this never-ending...

Dancing's just not a big deal to her. Which in some ways is healthy as opposed to girls that are emotionally invested in the power trip or other sexuality issues... and I guess I feel that as hard as I've tried to deal with it to 'get by' for awhile... her motivation for stopping seems to be deteriorating (I grow less secure, I get distant and lose my intimacy, she doesn't feel safe, she stops planning 'how to quit').

And at the end of the day, it's my inability to see what it means to her and her pride and independence to quit on her own terms. At the end of the day if I had embraced it fully 6 months ago... made her feel accepted and committed to and cared for her feelings... I think she would have the confidence to quit without feeling like I'm just going to dislike something else about her, leave, and she'll be left feeling like she gave me 'everything' and I still left. And she doesn't want that.

And instead I worry inside if she's 'well-adjusted' because of her disdain for having a boss and a fixed schedule for work. Don't we all? Is 'being an artist personality' an excuse to avoid responsibility? Until I stop weighing her love for me against everything else... she doesn't love me enough to quit, she doesn't love me enough to quit causing me pain because she doesn't want to be a waitress and get stiffed on the tip every now and then...

And in order to not feel like an , instead of saying, it is just about my security, I say, well, if I'm in pain I can't make you feel loved. I CAN'T feel the same security, so you are hurting your own ability to be loved by continuing doing this... bah. Yes, I annoy myself at times.

I know somebody with an "artist" personality, too. No nine-to-five for her! In fact, she was completely incapable of being on time for anything. It was borderline charming when she was young. Now she's forty-five years old and living off her parents. Not to say this will happen to your sweetie, but realistically, a time will approach when stripping isn't a viable option.

I don't like working my 8 to 5 job or working at my second job, but I do it because it is going to provide me a future and stability. It also provides me insurance and helps me save up for my retirement. Sometimes you have to think smart and think about your future and do things that you don't want to do at the time to better your future.

It doesn't seem like your girlfriend is thinking about her future, she is thinking about what she wants to do right now. I wish that I could find a job that I liked that I could only work a few hours a week and make that kind of money, but I don't because I am thinking about my future. Like Ren6 stated, she will not always be able to strip, so what is she going to do when she gets to old to strip and she is 50 years old with no experience in any other field or has no education? How will she support herself then?

Maybe you should go that route when you talk to her and ask her: What is she going to do if she gets sick and needs to go see a doctor with out having insurance? (unless she is on yours or has insurance another way) What is her plan for when she is to old to strip? What are her plans for her future? Does she see herself stripping at 40 years old? Does she have any goals in life? What would her children (if she ever has any) think about her when they grow up knowing that their mom was a stripper?

It isn't that hard to get a stripping job back after you have quit either. My best friend has quit stripping a number of times and has gone back, so if she did quit and you two didn't work out she could always go back and she really wouldn't be losing out on anything if she quit stripping for you.

It doesn't sound like she wants to stop stripping because it is the easy way out, and that is okay, if that is what she wants. But, if that isn't want you want and you can't change it, then you need to choose whether you can handle this or not. Whether you should be in this relationship or not.

I know that you accepted her for being a stripper in the beginning, but you also didn't see the relationship going anywhere. Now you do and you are uncomfortable with her work. (which is totally understandable) You have every right to feel that way, but you can't change her and what she wants to do. And it is not fair of you to give her an ultimatum. You can either deal with her stripping and find some way to get over this issue, or you can separate and go your different ways (if she doesn't want to stop stripping and you still want her to). You need to look toward your future and see what you want in life. There are many fish out in the sea and you can find someone else if this doesn't work out for you.

Try asking her questions about her future and where she sees herself in 20 years. Try to talk to her to see what her future plans are and then go from there and make a decision.

My boyfriend is a musician. I am hoping to get a permit for a picnic at the park so he can play there and invite people that might help get him somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

This relationship isn't going to work, because the OP is too possessive to believe in his woman. It's JUST a job.

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Yes, the last posts have defined how I feel about 'compromise and get another job' and her very valid feelings of, another job is restrictive and doesn't have the benefits that are very important to her.


I feel like I'm fighting between the forces of wanting to believe in her, accept her... and my own personal feelings that defines certain things as part of our intimacy.

And that I'm changing my beliefs in order to try to be with her, as opposed to truly believing that my beliefs are based on false, if common male tendencies of possessiveness and jealousy.

I have de-programmed a lot in that way. And she has compromised by working as little as possible, allowing me to come watch her work (even if it means she'll make less money) - but that even with that... she doesn't feel trusted and accepted.

I'm aware, I'm trying. I just don't know the tools to use to 'get there'. At times I've felt the freedom and strength in having something so deep with her that being naked on stage doesn't make me feel threatened.

I'm not 'losing' something that I can't define when it happens. But the last 3 weeks have been the strongest the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction and it's been devastating to us.

We've gotten in a financial jam... and I'm depressed because the only way out is for her to work. And the more of that energy I've felt, the more jealous I've become...

It's almost a catch-22 because I don't want her to go be a whore and find a way to rake in $500 in a night... but when she comes home with $80 it feels like I'm selling my own comfort and values and integrity for... $10/hr.

I want to be a more mature person here... I just don't know where the line is between becoming who you want... and accepting who you are.

Do what you want but I don't believe she would quit working at this club because you want her to, if she wants to she will continue working there.

She seems like a bad decision girl, if your going to date her you need to accept that she might continue working there.

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Originally Posted by bluedog9

It's almost a catch-22 because I don't want her to go be a whore

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I know many a whore that never took their clothes off on stage.

What's worse, a girl that goes from one guy to the next, lying to each of them only to take what she wants and leave him and emotional wreck for no reason other then he trusted her or a nude woman? Honestly, I could walk into any strip club in North America and find women who I have never met and trust more then some of the whore's I've dated or seen my friends date.

This goes back to my piont, you are not dating the woman at home, you are dating the woman at work. Maybe she's a whore to other guys, maybe she's a whore to some of the idiotic close minded posters on this board who have never been to a strip club, but she's your girlfriend. The moment you start thinking she's a whore you've got problems. She gets that mentality everywhere else she goes, and the reason you wound up with her is because you treated her and valued her as more then that. Now your starting to do what everybody else who wants her and fantasies about her does. SHE deserves better from you, because SHE trusted enough in you to not treat her like a whore, but like the woman behind the dancer.

I guess what we're trying to point out here is that you are judging her because of her job.

If you were a nuclear physicist, would you want everyone to think you're a murderer, because you work with nukes? I mean, come on! That's the worst thing you can do with nukes, and where the money is, right? So you couldn't POSSIBLY be anything but a murderer! You couldn't POSSIBLY be an environmentalist looking for alternate fuel sources. You couldn't POSSIBLY still be a father and be a physicist/murderer. You couldn't be a husband, or a vegan, or a baseball coach for little league, or a volunteer firefighter, because you're defined ONLY by your job, and what OTHER people think of your job, not YOUR reasons for doing it.

That is EXACTLY what you are doing to her. Think of your own job, and the absolute worst, negative, malicious thing that could be said about it. Cop? You must be crooked. Politician? You must be a sellout and a liar. Firefighter? You must be gay, to sleep with all those guys all the time! Military--you HAVE to like torturing people! Businessman? Bet you embezzle and inside trade!

Do YOU want to be judged by your JOB? Whatever it is, it's not who YOU are, is it? I don't think of my husband at work and think, "oh, since he works in a department of all women, and they go out to the bar for a beer and a burger after work sometimes, he's OBVIOUSLY getting some from the women at work, and even if he's not, they have to want him, since he's the only guy there". That's counter productive to a relationship.

Basically, you have to remember that she isn't her job. That's not who SHE is.

Threads merged and edited.


I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that as much as I can try to 'deal with it' – I'll never be emotionally secure enough, happy enough, and feel intimate enough with her, to be able to share the specialness in our relationship that was the whole reason we were together. We both come with a decent amount of baggage, but we accepted it because we were so in love, desperately, for so very, very long. Much longer than any normal 'honeymoon' period we have ever had with anyone else.

My question is this - how do I describe the feelings of pain I go through? Even to myself to adequately read and write the words that capture what I'm feeling.

I don't want it to sound selfish or just based on shallow, emotional insecurity or weakness. I'm not some barbaric guy with a huge fat ego. There is just a pain that I can't put my finger on. Is it my own self-esteem? If so, how do I describe that? Is it loss of respect?

I don't want to exaggerate it, but it is something like, feeling drained, humiliation, worthlessness, the loss of something sacred and intimate between us. Because I so much want to support her. I so much want to feel like I'm emotionally strong enough to say that these aesthetic things shouldn't have value in our bond with each other. She asks why the other 6 days a week we spend together when she isn't working can't be what our intimacy is based on. Loss of exclusivity, a value on feeling special and unique to share her visual naked body with others….

I just don't know how to describe it to her….so that I can just get it out there, let her feel it, understand it, without her feeling like I'm drowning her in my own emotions – so we can see how we can deal with it. Or what we need to do, what steps to take, to see if we are ever able to deal with it. Or if it is just a downward spiral that inevitiably ends in us breaking up. I've held in a lot of resentment, swallowed a lot of anger, and I don't ever want that to explode on her; like it has in the past when something completely unlrelated released all my pain on to her and there was way too much yelling and kicking of chairs.

In the past we've discussed it... and I grow in security and comfort and I've verbally supported her, taken her shopping for new clothes and been able to be there for her... she can logically show me the silliness of my jealousy... until the night comes and I'm home alone waiting for her to come back...