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Originally Posted by JBeaucaire

I really hope you have your wits about you through all of this, dude. The few "responses" of hers that you've posted so far make it clear she's already trying to draw you into defensive mode...and you haven't even had your new first data yet. Wow, she's a catch all right. (sarcasm detected)

Sex. *sigh* Well, you're a guy, those thoughts are to be expected, huh? Is she sterile? Are you? If so, then ok, maybe it's ok not to worry. But if you're EVER considering jumping in the sack with someone, EVEN WITH BIRTH CONTROL, make sure you are completely ok in your mind/heart/bank account raising kid(s) with this person.

Make sure!

If I were in your position, I wouldn't be going on this date. But since you are, please keep her in line. You don't owe her ANYTHING. If she misbehaves, like all the sexual banter you've already noted, just stop in your tracks, turn to her and say: "Stop doing that, please. I am not kidding, ok? You will stop that. Please tell me you will respect my wishes and stop."

If she gives you even a MOMENT of crap about it, then you really have your answer, don't you. Shake her hand, wish her well, cancel the date...and move on.

If she realizes you AREN'T going into this round with her the same as last time, you aren't picking up where you left off before, and AGREES to honor your wishes, then go ahead...carefully.

Take care, man.

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Sex... you are dead on about the reasons to not let myself get drawn into sex with her. Are men, such as I, really so weak as to not be able to turn down sex? I think not. I won't put myself in a position where "one thing leads to another" and if she flat out says she want to, I will politely decline and hope she can't see the reaction from my crotch. I think this would shock her more than anything should this senario come up. More than likely she wouldn't flat out say that is what she wants. It would be more of a "one thing leading to another" situation if sex came into play. I won't put myself in that position, especially since alcohol will be involved as it is her 21st birthday. I won't be drinking much as I have to drive, but I'm sure she will be. I will keep the date short, like say an hour or so, and avoid compromising situations.

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Originally Posted by confused25

Just have fun, be yourself, and don't go in with any expectations. Forget the past and concentrate on the present. This is a fresh new start so don't screw it up with feelings from the past. Think of this as something new and you are just going on a date to have fun and to learn about this person. If the past should come up, acknowledge it with compassion and than kindly try to change the subject.

Also, and this is important, DON'T HAVE SEX!! Sexual intercourse is such and intimate act that it will only make things more confusing for the both of you. It may get you too attached and scare her away or vice versa. Please, avoid sex until much later, if and when you two decide to begin a relationship again. If she tries to initiate sex I advise you tell her something like "You know, I really care about you and because of that I really do want to be close to you, but I don't believe we should have sex unless we are in a relationship. I don't want to make things more complicated so lets just take things slow." Something like this will show her that you do care about her but that you are being wise about the situation; you are kindly rejecting her for the moment but also letting her know that with time things can change.

Well good luck and as always keep us up-to-date.

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My intentions are to just be myself and have fun. My fear is arguing about the past. I've been tempted a few times to say something sarcastic or mean, but I bit my tongue. I know there is still hurt on both sides. My goal is to simply break the cycle of hurt. I am tryign to come to peace with myself in all this. Maybe this is too soon. But its happening now so I need to do my best to not let the demons of the past ruin what we could start now. I'll do my best to be compassionate and change the subject.

I think you are right about sex. This was actually my main concern with it. The confusion and emotional attatchment that would come. I don't want to start a new relationship like that. I don't want to use sex to get her attatched to me again. I don't want to risk getting attatched to her right now. It may or may not come up, but I'll try to not put myself in a position where sex would become likely.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Your a sucker for her charms, and weak for her physical presence. You will try to be logical, but not in person. I just hope you have fun, pay attention, and be objective. She knows how to pull your strings for sure, and make you think your in control. Your not. Don't even think you are. Not a bad thing, but at least see it for what it is, she is doing the courting, so no more relationship talk from you no matter how she LEADS into it. Just listen, if you can.

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Tal, as usual, you are spot on. She knows all the right things to get me eating out of the palm of her hand. She's definitely in the driver's seat and that is what scares me. I'll try to keep my mouth shut about relationship talk. Like you said she's courting me. (I thought I was the only one that still used the term courting) I'll try to keep my ears open and not think with the wrong part of myself. She's definitely in the lead on this one so I'll try not to delude myself into thinking I'm in control. I can barely even control myself in this. I could be wrong, but I think I need to make her work for my attention and affection. Not give it so easily to her. But she's in control as you said and she definitely knows how to pull my strings like a puppet master to a puppet.

5 hours until... I am trying to relax. I'll be fine when I get there, but anticipation is weighing heavily on my mind. I hop eall goes well. Keep telling myself no expectations, be kind, don't bring up the past, don't argue with her, if she brings up the past just listen, be myself, and have fun. Easier said than done, but I feel I have handled myself well so far. The real test will be seeing her in person. I'll be all right. I'll be sure to let you all know how it goes. I don't expect to get any conclusions about "us" from one date. Talked to emopunk a while back and he said he just listened to his girl and hung out for like a month before getting back together. I'm not putting a strict time table up or anything. I know this is thinking ahead, but I won't let her string me along forever though. If it reaches a point down the road where I feel I am being moved to "just a friend" I'll end it and go back to NC. I know that's far away (weeks... months... ) so I'm just going to try and live it the now. Live in the moment and have fun. I will let you all know how it goes. I have good feelings about this. I just got to be my happy self. Wish me luck.

Have a great time, and make sure she does too. Easy on the after shave. Dress to impress! (Why am I so nervous?)

As expected, did some smart things... did some stupid things... mostly went well. I handled myself well until I realized I had drank more than intended. Neither one of us got drunk, but there was definitely a buzz. Lunch went really well for the most part. Kind of some awkward silence here and there, but mostly laughing and having a good time. She brought up the past repetedly during our 3 1/2 hour get together. I expressed a little too much of my feelings to her. At one point while well into the buzz I flat out told her I still loved her. She responded the same. I told her my intentions with her. To date her and then start a new relationship where we learn from the past mistakes. I also had to clarify for her that it was all or nothing with me. I told her we either start moving towards a new relationship, or we get out of each others' lives. I told her I didn't want her to see me as weak for still having feelings for her. She told me she still had a lot of fealings for me, but just wants to see where it goes and have fun for right now. That was the bad parts. I think I said too much, but I tried my best not to pressure her. I told her that I was a fool to push her away the first time and the last thing I want to do right now is push her away again. I told her I'm not ready to be in a relationship right now, but that I would want to date her right now. She didn't object and we do have another date planned. Sex came up after I made a move I'm not sure I should have made. We we walking to my car, still a little buzzed, after lunch and she started moving to the passenger side and I followed. I grabbed her, took her in my arms, and kissed her passionately. She didn't push me away and kissed back with a lot of passion. We broke the kiss and with my head still close to hers, I said to her "Happy birthday..." I then broke the embrace, turned, and went to my side of the car as if nothing happened. We get in and she grabs me and kisses me deeply. We kissed and made out in the car for about 10 minutes. Then she kept saying "What is this?" "What are we doing?". On te drive towards her house, she grabbed me and kissed me at every red light. She then asked if I needed to go home and I said, I could hang out a little longer. We decided to go to Target and walk off the rest of the buzz. (Anyone here want to lecture me on driving buzzed.. I know it was stupid, but we both decided it would be best not to wait in the parkinglot, "before this goes any further". It wouldn't have been the first time we let things go too far in a public place.) On the way, she mentioned she was tempted to go home and make love to me, but I told her she can't have that unless I get what I want i.e. her heart. Well we walked around Target and this is where the big relationship talks started coming in. We were very touchy feely and acted like a couple. She kept hugging me and kissing me even after we had both sobered up. She held my hand and put her arm around me like we were a couple again. When she hugged me she didn't want to let go, and I found myself kissing the top of her head like I used to. She kept listing all the things she missed about us, but expressed real concern over some of our past problems, to which I gave heartfelt answers. I tried my best not to use logic on her. And the relationship talk was frequently broken up by fun and laughter. I went a little too far in my teasing once pointing out that she had a few grey hairs. (at 21 years old... I'm a year older and I have greys as well) This upset her more than I intended, I grabbed her, gently guided her face to look into my eyes, and told her she was the most beautiful girl I had ever seem and that I never intended to hurt her feelings. She pulled me down for another kiss after I said this, and it was a very loving and tender kiss. I told her I don't expect her to come running back into my arms after one date, but admitted theree was a part of me that wished she would. I also told her that the other part of me knows if that happened, we would fall right back into the same problems we had before. I told her I didn't want to have the demons of the past to ruin what we could build together. I said I want to learn from those mistakes. We talked about things, and I tried to let her lead, but found myself telling her what my feelings were. I also said I was OK if she never returned my feelings, but that we would have to move on away from each other. Its too early for us to tell right now and I told her that. She admitted that we could never be just friends because there is "more there". By the end of the date, she was referring to the breakup as a "rough patch" and saying, "If we're meant to be, then we will be." I took her back to her parents place and she kissed me a few more times on the way. We got to her house and her dad was in the front lawn, so we didn't hug or kiss good bye, because she is sensitive about PDA in front of them and I'm sure she didn't want to give them the impression we're back together right now. I said, "I really wish I could kiss you again before you go in, but I know your dad's watching." She replied, "well we're going to see eachother again soon." We had talked earlier about some of the things we were each mad at each other for, so before she left, I put my hand on hers and she looked at me in the eye and I told her, "I forgive you for everything you did that hurt me," and she looked back and replied, "I forgive you too, Steven." We briefly confirmed our next plans together and said goodbye. I've got a lot of emotions stirred up right now. I know we're not close to being back together yet, but there is definitely still physical, mental, and emotional chemistry between us. I tried to keep things happy and fun, but serious stuff did come up. We both did have a lot of fun though. I think I scored more points than I lost this round. She's definitely hesitant and I think it has to do with 2 things: she's still got a lot of hurt and is afraid to risk it again; and this is the first time she been single in over 2 1/2 years and is learning about herself again. The latter is the spoken version, the former is my observations. More than likely its reasons I can't even begin to imagine, but I'm sure there is truth in all of it. Anyway, thoughts? Critisizms? Help?

Well, for a first date, that reads more like 4 months worth... sheesh! Making out like little kiddies and exchanging "i love you"s is NOT a first date. (chuckles away)

At least you didn't sleep with her (*faints*). With all that commotion you almost might's'well (not really).

Dude, you are killing me. It's clear you only have a FRACTION of the self-control you're attributing to yourself. Taking it slow is the exact opposite of the story I just read, LOL.

OK, well, I guess you're going to do what you're going to do, just don't say we didn't try to slow you down for almost two weeks... (hangs head in chagrin).

All right, well I'll be honest here, this is new ground for me since I've never had a chance to reconcile with an ex. However, I'm here with you so your experience is mine as well and I'll do my best to offer advice along the way.

So I think your biggest problem is that you talk too much about touch-feely stuff. Ask yourself, would you do that on a first date? If the answer is no (I hope it is) than what would you do on a first date? The answer varies, but for the most part you make her laugh, show her a good time, and ask her questions about her life. Face it, in most good dates the woman does most of the talking while the guy just listens and follows up with related questions (at least this is my experience).

In other words, stop bringing up your feelings and desires. She already knows where you stand. She is fully aware that you love her, you're very much interested in a relationship, and you will not settle for a friendship. As a result there is no need to keep reminding her. Fortunately I don't think you made any grievous mistakes that will destroy the path your on. Honestly, she is part at fault for also brining up her feelings. However, it is up to you to set the tone. There is nothing wrong with cuddling, kissing, holding each other and all that stuff but just remember that you two are back in the dating phase. Have fun and learn about one another.

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Originally Posted by JBeaucaire

Well, for a first date, that reads more like 4 months worth...sheesh! Making out like little kiddies and exchanging "i love you"s is NOT a first date. (chuckles away)

At least you didn't sleep with her (*faints*). With all that commotion you almost might's'well (not really).

Dude, you are killing me. It's clear you only have a FRACTION of the self-control you're attributing to yourself. Taking it slow is the exact opposite of the story I just read, LOL.

OK, well, I guess you're gonna do what you're gonna do, just don't say we didn't try to slow you down for almost two weeks...(hangs head in chagrin).

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I blame the I love you (it was only one) on my drinking... or at least if she brings it up I will. Making out like little kiddies... well that's not out of the norm for us. We were doing that before we started dating the first time. I'm in no way endorsing this as a way to start a relationship with someone, but it's the way it happened. I lost all self control and I'm beating myself up for the way I handled things. I didn't do any permenate damage, but I still am mad at myself for not having the self control I thought I had. I said the test would be seeing her in person and I guess it really was. It showed me just how easily I let myself be a sucker for her. At least we didn't progress to sex. I think we both would have regretted it. But the thought did cross our minds a few times. I certainly don't have the self control I attributed to myself though. And no I didn't take it slow like I wanted. The relationship talk was instigated by her, but I told her more than I wanted to. I put my heart on my sleeve and that's the last place I wanted it. The relationship talk on her part mostly consisted of extremely probing questions about my feelings. And I wasn't in much condition (alcohol or no) to hide my feelings. I didn't pour my heart out to her, but I certainly said more than I wanted to. But she knows how to... pull my strings. I lost myself control. Please keep drilling in my head to slow down before my next date. I got to do better next time in order to earn myself some selfrespect, because I certainly don't have any respect for myself the way I handled things today.

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Originally Posted by confused25

Alright, well I'll be honest here, this is new ground for me since I've never had a chance to reconcile with an ex. However, I'm here with you so your experience is mine as well and I'll do my best to offer advice along the way.

So I think your biggest problem is that you talk too much about touch-feely stuff. Ask yourself, would you do that on a first date? If the answer is no (I hope it is) than what would you do on a first date? The answer varies, but for the most part you make her laugh, show her a good time, and ask her questions about her life. Face it, in most good dates the woman does most of the talking while the guy just listens and follows up with related questions (at least this is my experience).

In other words, stop bringing up your feelings and desires. She already knows where you stand. She is fully aware that you love her, you're very much interested in a relationship, and you will not settle for a friendship. As a result there is no need to keep reminding her. Fortunately I don't think you made any grievous mistakes that will destroy the path your on. Honestly, she is part at fault for also brining up her feelings. However, it is up to you to set the tone. There is nothing wrong with cuddling, kissing, holding each other and all that stuff but just remember that you two are back in the dating phase. Have fun and learn about one another.

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C25, I really hope this doesn't turn into a "what not to do" thread. This is really new territory for me too. To be honest I've never even desired to reconcile with an ex before this one. I tried to keep the talk fun, but she asked some really probing questions and it was hard to get the cork back in once I started pouring my feelings to her. I didn't pour my heart out, but I said more than I should. To be honest the talk about what went wrong brought me down and it was hard to bring myself back up. I basically switched into A.D.D. mode and when I started to feel the relationship talk was getting beyond my ability to handle, I'd completely change the subject and say or do something that would make us burst into laughter. I was mostly fun, but the relationship talk was not the most fun thing in the world. On the bright side, there wasn't much relationship talk on the drive to Target. It was mostly her eyeing me like a piece of meat and aggressively grabbing and kissing me every chance she got. Not exactly slow, but better than relationship talk lol. As far as questions about her life, I was met with short sentences. Basically she doesn't have much of a life. She switched to working closing shift at work so she wouldn't have to sit at home by herself so much after the break up. She wasn't forthcoming with what all she's been up to other than working. She's out of the ordinary I suppose in that she never was much of a talker. But we did quite a bit of joking and laughing with each other. We did more joking around than relationship talk. You are dead right that I need to shut my mouth about my feelings and desires. She was asking very specific questions about them. It's only going to annoy her if I repeat myself over and over. I guess I showed myself what I still need to work on.

I have just under 2 weeks till the next date. I'm to try and keep only light contact till then so that I'm not pouring my feelings out to her. I won't let it progress physically past what we've already established today. And I am going to let her take the lead with this. She can initiate it. I'm just going to set myself personal boundries. Next date is all about fun. I'm (hopefully) not going to let the relationship talk go on too much. If she does talk about it, I'll try to handle it better.

It just occurred to me the conversation that lead to the "I love you"s, not that it matters a whole lot. We were driving and the relationship came up briefly. And we were talking about how we both made some mistakes and pushed each other apart. I told her that I was lashing out at her and blaming her for my depression and self hatred of the time and that it was wrong of me. I told her it got to the point where I spent about a 2 month period 6 months before the actual break up thinking about leaving her because I wasn't able to deal with my own emotional problems. She started to get upset upon hearing this and I said, "but I didn't, because it wasn't your fault I was feeling the way I was feeling and I couldn't leave you because I loved you too much.... hell I still love you...." to which she replied "I love you too." "Don't say that just because I said it," I said with a tinge of anger. She quickly backed up her declaration with, "I'm not just saying that. Theres a reason I haven't gotten over you." "Yeah, but that doesn't matter, since your not in love with me anymore." I came back still feeling angry but my voice coming out more sorrowful. "I can't answer that right now," she said. "It wasn't a question," I said. "I still can't respond to it..." she replied. Then I said, "For men, at least the ones I know, love is different. There isn't a distenction between 'loving' and 'being in love with' someone. Men either love or they do not. And it takes men a lot longer to get over lost love than it does women because it takes men longer to develope those feelings in the first place." She said, "Being in love means that you need to be around that person all the time and can't be without them." I wanted to say to her, "No, thats called codependancy," but instead I just sat quitely for a few moments and then returned to lighter conversation, laughing and joking. I will again stress, the above was not what the majority of the date consisted of. It was MOSTLY having fun.

I wasn't emotionally ready for this. I really wasn't ready for this. But it's here before me. I've already committed to this path. I just know if it doesn't work out, I'm going to be crushed 10 times worse than the first time. I'm not ready for this, but I put myself in this position and I need to see it though no matter what the outcome. What have I gotten myself into?

Calm down my friend. Trust me, you can handle this. On top of that, we're all here to help you through it.

What I tell a lot of people when they first begin dating someone is to not care what happens. When they worry too much about the situation they forget to have fun and then things go to waste. Worst of all, if things don't work out they become devastated. As a result, they should simply not care what happens, and when they do things work out well, even if the outcome is without the other person.

I know this is harder for you because you two have a past but you need to go into this with a "whatever happens, happens" attitude. Remember what I said about second chances? Most of us never get them, but if we ever come across one we should seize it and not let it go to waste. Listen, just kick back and have fun! Don't make this girl a priority in your life. On top of that, take charge of the situation. If she asks probing questions about how you feel just politely tell her "Hey we've already talked about this, lets not center our time together on the same subject" or try telling her "You know, I'm sure everything will become more clear with time. For now lets have some fun doing other things."

You mentioned that there were only a few times during the date where things got touch-feely. That's good, now just work towards shrinking that number to zero. You're right, don't wear your heart on your sleeve because you should be making her wonder how you feel about her. Be a mystery! See how it's like dating all over again?

One other thing, I don't want to hear you blaming things on alcohol anymore. If you can't handle yourself around her when you drink than the solution is not to drink. Take her some place that doesn't involve the need to drink. How about miniature golf, a coffee shop, ice skating, museum, movie, art gallery, bowling, or the hundreds of other things you can do.

Bottom line: Don't care what happens and just have fun.

Alcohol is an excuse. I know I'm responsible for my own actions, but I guess its easier to blame the alcohol. The truth is I wasn't ready for this emotionally. Plain and simple. It's hard for me to not care what happens because I already do have strong feelings for her. I don't want to blow my second chance. Like you said, confused25, second chances are rare, and they should be seized. I thought I had that "what ever happens, happens" attitude but it almost fell apart actually seeing her. But I think I can learn from it now that I'm past the initial shock. I know what to expect a little better. And you are right, I've already made all my feelings and intentions clear, there is no reason for me to tell her again, even if she asks. I'm not in a calm state right now, and that scares me. That she can make me like this. I've really got too much of myself riding on the outcome of this, and I AM going to make the same mistakes again. I'm already setting myself up to rebuild my world around her. Have I learned nothing? One date and I want her to be the center of my universe again. I'm still working on that making myself the center of my universe part. I think right now I just have a lot of stirred up emotions and I need to let them settle. I know now what to expect as far as my feelings go next time I see her. I can concentrate on having fun (or at least try). I'm in such a freaking hurry to get back to being in a relationship, I'm going to ruin my chance, and miss out on the potentially fun trip along the way. I should be enjoying this, not trying to force it to the next step. I couldn't have gotten this far without all you guys, esp. confused25 and Tal. You guys are being my voice of reason through all this, because I can't stop thinking with my heart. Not that its your burden, but try not to let me do anything so stupid that I ruin this. If you were actually here, I'd tell you to smack me. I know you can't be here to physically stop me from doing anything stupid, but I really wish you were. Like I said, I'm going to keep light contact between now and the next date so I can let my emotions settle and better prepare myself for the next encounter. The next one is a day trip so we're probably going to be together a good 7-8 hours. Maybe not the best idea, but it should be fun, so long as I keep it fun. We're going to the Aquarium up in the mountains about an hour and a half from home. Its her favorite date place for us to go and it was her idea so I went along with it. It's kind of a romantic setting and there's nothing but good memories from our trips there. Thanks again everyone.

Sorry dude, alcohol is not an excuse anymore. This may be harsh, but you know how you act around her when you drink so your best option is not to drink when you are with her. There are no if's, and's, or but's, just don't do it.

Secondly, I know this is tough and I can tell from the tone in your posts that you are shaken up, but you can get through this. Remember when you didn't think you would get through the first break up? Well you did and now you are a stronger person because of it. You may not think that right now, but trust me I can tell.

Also, I'm glad that you notice you are putting too much emphasis on this girl. You don't want to rebuild your world around her and as long as you remind yourself of that you won't. Remember, have confidence in yourself. There is a reason this girl has feelings for you and it's because you are an awesome guy. Remember that.

Moreover, you have the right idea about keeping contact light until the next date, now do your best to stick by that. Keep yourself busy so that way when she calls you can't pick up. Enjoy life doing fun things that way you can't call her back right away. Be mysterious and make her wonder what you're up to.

As for the actual date, I think it's a good location. But lets talk about that two days before it actually happens. For now, take a deep breath and be proud that you got through the day. Do something fun and stop worrying about this, the universe will take care of itself.

confused25, I really need to spread some rep around, because I want to give you rep on every single post you've put on my thread, but it won't let me. Hahaha Seriously, you're advice is awesome and really helps me take a step back and look at myself. I have the joy of school and work for the next 4 days, so no fun there, but it will still keep me busy. I'll get out of the house and hang out with the guys on Friday. Have some man time to grunt, scratch, fight, and be damn manly, lol. Get my mind off my feelings and have some fun. I don't believe they have alcohol at the aquarium being as it is a family place, so I should be good about the not drinking part. I need to cut back on drinking anyway as I have really picked up the habit again way too much lately. I'll worry about the next date when we get closer to it.

Also, maybe kissing her wasn't such a bad thing. It certainly got her wanting more, and it showed me there is definitely still chemistry there. More importantly, it proved to her my point about not being able to ever be just friends, since after that she readily made that declaration herself. There's still a spark there, with a little luck and some kindling, it could start the flame again. I didn't give her everything she wanted, and I certainly teased her with it. Kept it fun, playful, and exciting. She definitely wanted more. But, I can and will stick to my guns about no sex unless we get into a stable relationship.

Oh and this might be thread hijacking, but its my own thread. Any guys decided to grow their beard out after getting dumped? I did since she never "let me" while we were together and now that its grown out, softened up, and groomed, she says she likes it. Wow, I'm being random. Thanks a bunch again confused25 and everyone else.

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Originally Posted by SJB1701E

confused25, I really need to spread some rep around, because I want to give you rep on every single post you've put on my thread, but it won't let me. hahaha Seriously, you're advice is awesome and really helps me take a step back and look at myself. I have the joy of school and work for the next 4 days, so no fun there, but it will still keep me busy. I'll get out of the house and hang out with the guys on Friday. Have some man time to grunt, scratch, fight, and be damn manly, lol. Get my mind off my feelings and have some fun. I don't believe they have alcohol at the aquarium being as it is a family place, so I should be good about the not drinking part. I need to cut back on drinking anyways as I have really picked up the habit again way too much lately. I'll worry about the next date when we get closer to it.

Also, maybe kissing her wasn't such a bad thing. It certainly got her wanting more, and it showed me there is definately still chemistry there. More importantly, it proved to her my point about not being able to ever be just friends, since after that she readily made that declaration herself. Theres still a spark there, with a little luck and some kindling, it could start the flame again. I didn't give her everything she wanted, and I certainly teased her with it. Kept it fun, playful, and exciting. She definately wanted more. But, I can and will stick to my guns about no sex unless we get into a stable relationship.

Oh and this might be thread hijacking, but its my own thread. Any guys decided to grow their beard out after getting dumped? I did since she never "let me" while we were together and now that its grown out, softened up, and groomed, she says she likes it. Wow, I'm being random. Thanks a bunch again confused25 and everyone else.

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It is about actions and not words at this stage. Just do what is natural and don't push too much. Though there will come a time when you need to both sit down and talk, that time is not yet!

At some point I hope you realize that saying "no" to things is a sign of strength. Saying "no" to yourself is a critical skill. You don't have that skill, at all.

You're first date reads like all the stuff you'd expect from the first 10 dates over a 2-3 month period. If you thought it, you said it. If you thought it, you did it. If she thought/did anything, you went along with it.

With no sense of measure, you dive in head long as if you two never broke up at all.

Post after post you say the same thing:
"I know this is not smart, but I'm going to do this."
"I know I shouldn't do this, but I did."
"I wasn't ready for this at all, but I'm doing it anyway."

The sheer volume of your posts also concerns me. Obssessive, maybe? It might explain a lot of this. Anyway, my point is still that restraint is a key skill in leadership. If you have any hope of leading intelligently to a solid, safe place, you have GOT to learn how to say "No, let's not do that." Not only to her, but to YOU. And after saying no, MEAN IT. Don't do it.

Your "second date" is an all-day destination-event date? See what I mean? This already sounds like an "engaged-people's-activity". For some reason, either you or her are push-push-pushing to ramp things right back to where they once were as quickly as humanly possible.

That's a mistake. You two didn't work that way before. Racing back to where you were is a mistake. By the time you slowly, slowly, heart-breakingly slowly reach that point over a 6-month period, you give yourselves EVERY CHANCE to reacquire your intimacy and NOT be at the same place you were before... where it didn't work.

I sincerely hope you understand my point.

If this destination-event can't be changed, TAKE SOME CHAPERONES, or cancel the date for something closer, MUCH shorter, and completely 100% public.

Land mines, everywhere, dude.

Lots and lots of info here.

Can't say I saw this happening, only because it seemed like you thought this through very well, although you drastically underestimated the feelings involved.

In perspective, it went well for a date with an ex, obviously there are still strong feelings on both your sides. What went wrong was the fact that, again, you underestimated your draw to her and your actions reveal that you missed and wanted her back a lot more than you led on.

This booze thing is an excuse butmay play a part just yet. Perhaps you were so out of character (at least compared to the way you've presented yourself on here)b/c of the drinks, as was she and perhaps that is why it turned into such a lovey-dovey affair. During the lunch when you and her were not buzzing you said you had silences and the like, it seems after the lunch you both became more open and revealing. The actions that took place may not be what either of you were actual feeling (well maybe not as intense) and if you consider it a mistake she may well also, the flip-flop scenario that annoyingly comes up.

Overall I think its hard to comment as to whether its good or bad. Its good in the sense she still has feelings for you, if you dealt with feelings of hernot caring for you or her dating other guys than this date dispelled those thoughts and that is a big positive. The downside is that you may have gotten into something you may not even want, and you said it perfectly yourself if that bethecase "what have i gotten myself into?". You are also correct about the second time hurting more than the first, more hurt, more anger, more stress. This is one reason why members here advocate so strongly for N/C and instruct to keep it going strong no matter what, you can lie to yourself very easily. Intellectually you understand but emotionally you didn't. You say you were goingto becareful and were anything but a cautious ex-b/f, so that was you convincing yourself you can handle this days prior to game-time.

I guess you can answer best whether it went well or not based on what you REALLY want from this girl.

Never mix alcohol, perfume and lipstick. Especially at a Targets. Let me know when the brain comes in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBeaucaire

At some point I hope you realize that saying "no" to things is a sign of strength. Saying "no" to yourself is a critical skill. You don't have that skill, at all.

You're first date reads like all the stuff you'd expect from the first 10 dates over a 2-3 month period. If you thought it, you said it. If you thought it, you did it. If she thought/did anything, you went along with it.

With no sense of measure, you dive in head long as if you two never broke up at all.

Post after post you say the same thing:
"I know this is not smart, but I'm going to do this."
"I know I shouldn't do this, but I did."
"I wasn't ready for this at all, but I'm doing it anyway."

The sheer volume of your posts also concerns me. Obssessive, maybe? It might explain a lot of this. Anyway, my point is still that restraint is a key skill in leadership. If you have any hope of leading intelligently to a solid, safe place, you have GOT to learn how to say "No, let's not do that." Not only to her, but to YOU. And after saying no, MEAN IT. Don't do it.

Your "second date" is an all-day destination-event date? See what I mean? This already sounds like an "engaged-people's-activity". For some reason, either you or her are push-push-pushing to ramp things right back to where they once were as quickly as humanly possible.

That's a mistake. You two didn't work that way before. Racing back to where you were is a mistake. By the time you slowly, slowly, heart-breakingly slowly reach that point over a 6-month period, you give yourselves EVERY CHANCE to reacquire your intimacy and NOT be at the same place you were before...where it didn't work.

I sincerely hope you understand my point.

If this destination-event can't be changed, TAKE SOME CHAPERONES, or cancel the date for something closer, MUCH shorter, and completely 100% public.

Land mines, everywhere, dude.

---

Ok seriously putting me on the defensive here. I'm usually not one to disrespect peoples opinions, but I feel a strong need to defend myself right now. Mostly you've been very helpful, and I really appreciate you taking the time to do so, but I do need to stand up for myself when I feel as though I am being misinterpreted.

I am new to this. I've never done this before. I didn't know what to expect of her or myself. I don't think I did horribly being as I didn't have any experiece or a guide book. In the past getting dumped from a long term relationship (1 year+) I have told the dumper to kiss my @ss and called them every name in the book. I've never tried to get back together with an ex before. I'm new to this. I knew the risks going into it, but I didn't know what to expect when it actually happened. What Tal said is true, I have very little control in her physical presence. Its something I have to learn. You can't expect me to be there all at once. I don't have that expectation of myself. I understand that this is a learning process and one that carries high risk. I also understand the importance of NC and I didn't make the decision to break it lightly. I'm taking a risky road, I'm playing with fire. It will either turn out rewarding or devastating. I KNOW that. Its not like I'll die or anthing. But you got to take the risk if you want the reward. So I am. And I won't do it pretty or perfect. I will make mistakes, and I will LEARN from them. I can list my mistakes if you don't believe I grasp them. That's the big thing you need to realise. I SEE my mistakes. SEEING them allows my to examine myself and what to do better next time. So long as I avoid the huge mistakes, and learn from the rest, I should be fine. The fact that she still wants the second date tells me I didn't completely ruin my chances, which tells me I didn't make any horrible mistakes. The mistakes I made can be corrected now that I know what to prepare for.

You also quoted me several times stating that I was doing things I knew were mistakes. This is taken out of context. You should realise that by verbalizing that, I was intending to say that while I realise I am in the process of doing something wrong, I am recognising it and correcting it. Again, learning process. You learn more from mistakes than you do from getting right the first time. And that one, "I wasn't ready for this at all, but I'm doing it anyway." That was a statement conveying that I have already committed to this path of trying to get back together, but now realise I wasn't prepared. Having said that, the task is before me NOW and I need to adapt on the fly because the chance won't be there later. No time to prepare, just have to learn as I go.

Oh and being obsessive, give me a freaking break. I had a lot of emotions stirred up right afterwards and needed to get it out. That and I am extremely longwinded when I write. To be honest, you guys on here are the only ones I've really talked to in depth about the date. All the people in my real life have gotten the short, "It went ok" answer when asking me about it. And one more time, it's a learning process and I will be able to say NO in the future now that I have a better idea of what to expect of myself.

The second trip is like a half day event. And if you were familiar with where I live, you would know how horribly boring it could be. An hour or so drive isn't that bad. You act like we're going on vacation together. There is nothing wrong with the venue, especially given the nostalgic connection to the place. That and she has free tickets. The aquarium is a very public place and usually very busy. As far as chaperones, give me a little bit more credit than that. No alcohol, public place, and I better know what to expect. I think I've at least learned something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BMI

Lots and lots of info here.

Can't say I saw this happening, only b/c it seemed like you thought this through very well, although you drastically underestimated the feelings involved.

In perspective, it went well for a date with an ex, obviously there are still strong feelings on both your sides. What went wrong was the fact that, again, you underestimated your draw to her and your actions reveal that you missed and wanted her back alot more than you led on.

This booze thing is an excuse butmay play a part just yet. Perhaps you were so out of character (at least compared to the way you've presented yourself on here)b/c of the drinks, as was she and perhaps that is why it turned into such a lovey-dovey affair. During the lunch when you and her were not buzzing you said you had silences and the like, it seems after the lunch you both became more open and revealing. The actions that took place may not be what either of you were actual feeling (well maybe not as intense) and if you consider it a mistake she may well also, the flip-flop scenario that annoyingly comes up.

Overall I think its hard to comment as to whether its good or bad. Its good in the sense she still has feelings for you, if you dealt with feelings of hernot caring for you or her dating other guys than this date dispelled those thoughts and that is a big positive. The downside is that you may have gotten into something you may not even want, and you said it perfectly yourself if that bethecase "what have i gotten myself into?". You are also correct about the second time hurting more than the first, more hurt, more anger, more stress. This is one reason why members here advocate so strongly for N/C and instruct to keep it going strong no matter what, you can lie to yourself very easily. Intellectually you understand but emotionally you didn't. You say you were goingto becareful and were anything but a cautious ex-b/f, so that was you convincing yourself you can handle this days prior to game-time.

I guess you can answer best whether it went well or not based on what you REALLY want from this girl.

---

I did very seriously underestimate my feelings. I thought I was prepared. The knowledge was there. But being around her and not knowing wha tto expect, my brain lost control and I was leading with my heart. The alcohol didn't help, but I don't think we were that far out of character. I think it did make our feelings be closer to the surface than either one of us really wanted to show. I don't think it intensified the feelings, it just made them easier to come out in the open. To be honest it probably would have still gone that way without the alcohol. I really attribute the silences at first to us adjusting. We haven't seen each other since February so it took a little time to really fall back into natural conversation with each other. Also the relationship was on both of our minds and that made it a little hard to focus on other things. I did my best to not focus on any one thing so that it would be broken up, light, and fun. I kept her laughing. I think things are still looking good. Alcohol or no, she still has feelings for me and I think that's a very good thing. By "what have I gotten myself into," I simply meant that I wasn't as prepared as I though I was and that I need ot be careful not to let it overwhelm me. I was prepared intellectually, but no where close emotionaly. I am better prepared now that I know what to expect. Hopefully, I can actually use at least part of my brain on my next encounter. Its one big learning process.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Never mix alcohol, perfume and lipstick. Especially at a Targets. Let me know when the brain comes in.

---

So True... you were dead right about how I would be in her physical presence. Now that I have a better idea of what to expect of myself, and of her, I feel that my brain can take control of my actions a little better... won't say I'll be perfect, I'm sure I'll make more mistakes, but now I know what to expect.

I'm not the one that needs convincing, so if you're OK with these dates, that's all that matters in the end.

All I'm interested in here, the only reason I even post here, is to help people NOT fall into repetitive ruts. If you're in no danger of that, then good work.

But if the danger is still very real, then just focus on the POINTS we're making, not the inevitable miscalculation/misinterpretation of facts or what you've said to us. Our underlying points will probably stand even through those corrections. Understand?

For instance, you indicated a 7-8 hour dating outing. That sounds very isolated, doesn't it? So my response to you is reasonable based on what you originally said. And even though you've downplayed that with your additional info about the aquarium trip, my point is still the same, that much time together (7-8 hours you didn't change) in a single date is asking for more "over-communication" and rushing through dates and dates worth of activity. If you don't see that as a likely result, or disagree you two will have a repeat performance from your first date (and more), well, then what can I say?

I'm concerned for you. If nothing else, I hope you understand that.

Quote:

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I'm sure I'll make more mistakes, but now I know what to expect.

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The quote I have in my signature about obstacles, is not there to look good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBeaucaire

I'm not the one that needs convincing, so if you're OK with these dates, that's all that matters in the end.

All I'm interested in here, the only reason I even post here, is to help people NOT fall into repetitive ruts. If you're in no danger of that, then good work.

But if the danger is still very real, then just focus on the POINTS we're making, not the inevitable miscalculation/misinterpretation of facts or what you've said to us. Our underlying points will probably stand even through those corrections. Understand?

For instance, you indicated a 7-8 hour dating outing. That sounds very isolated, doesn't it? So my response to you is reasonable based on what you originally said. And even though you've downplayed that with your additional info about the aquarium trip, my point is still the same, that much time together (7-8 hours you didn't change) in a single date is asking for more "over-communication" and rushing through dates and dates worth of activity. If you don't see that as a likely result, or disagree you two will have a repeat performance from your first date (and more), well, then what can I say?

I'm concerned for you. If nothing else, I hope you understand that.

---

I do understand. I may have took it the wrong way. Don't think I'm ungrateful. It just rubbed me the wrong way. I am OK with these dates, it is just going to be more emotionally demanding than I had previously thought. I'll learn and adapt. I see the risk of over communication in this next date, but I alos see the potential for a lot of good things. I don't expect anything as far as reconciliation goes to come out of two dates. I just need to keep in mind that I'm trying to have fun. A part of me is in a hurry to get into the security and comfort of a relationship, but I'm trying to keep that in check. It was never my primary motivation in this. I am capable of being happy and single. I want her because I love her. Simple as that. And I consider her worth the effort and risk to achieve that goal. I'll make more of an effort using what I learned from the first date to keep things light and fun. I will also not let things progress physically past the point they are at. And I may be spending the morning and afternoon with her, but I'll end the date upon arriving back in town. I won't go out to dinner or spend the evening with her. I figure I'll probably spend from 10am-4 or 5pm with her and then end the date. I know that's a long date, but I think I will be OK.

I think what we are all saying is, you never healed from the first break-up and now all of this is happening so quickly. Because it is happening so quickly you are jumping at her call(just my opinion) and trying to rush things to get back to the place you were before, but keep in mind, if what went wrong in the relationship is not discussed then it will only happen again. "If we do not learn from the past, we are doomed to repeat it"

Don't take this the wrong way, I want this to work out for you. But I'm just afraid that if it falls through, its going to hit you a lot harder because you never fully healed

Quote:

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Ok seriously putting me on the defensive here.

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When we feel like we need to defend our actions, that's the time to evaluate them first. I share his concerns, as we already know your weakness for her and now a willingness to follow her lead, is something to think about. Think about where your head will be after spending most of the day smelling her perfume and slobbing on her lipstick. Part of what we as guys ignore is putting ourselves in a position to be seduced, or influenced against our will. This whirlwind your on, has you doing, and not listening, a dangerous game of distraction, from the real issue, and that's how she feels about you, and more importantly, what she is going to do about it. Reread this posts for yourself, and see if you have kept any part of the plan you have laid out for yourself. If you find it, please let me know.