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So, Face_Reality, do you think that applies to men as well? If a guy says he "needs space" or is "not sure what he wants," does that mean he's not interested? Are you saying any ambivalence or doubt signals lack of interest and the other person should always move on to someone who is certain?Quote:
Originally Posted by face_reality
It think that this is an interesting story of settling for what ever you can get, and the length people will go to get what they think they want.
Just me, if a female doesn't want to move to the next level, after 7 months, that makes us friends, not kissy face, or with benefits, FRIENDS.
As much as we can feel, and care for another person, Ain't that much love in the world to go this long without a true understanding of where things are going. Or at least try things the right way. Oh wait, he did that, and she dumped him for her 10 year ex, she hasn't gotten over.
Despite the sex, (not enough to mean a darn thing, but enough to keep him emotionally involved.) and making out, this has gone round, and round and until someone ends it for good, it will continue to go round, and round. That's why this thread has gone so long, and not gotten anywhere. Its sitting the same place it was at the start.
So until someone gets tired enough, or courage enough to break this cycle, round and round it goes, where it stops no one knows.
Sadly when the real truth comes out, all anyone will remember is "I told you so"
Tab, your aren't the only one who has come here stuck, but your getting close to the record for being stuck for so long. Re evaluate your own stubborn, never quite attitude and see if this is all worth it.
Or examine whether you have other options to get unstuck.
She messaged me in the morning asking me how my night was... so I called her.. I asked her out to lunch, but she said that she couldn't because the guy that bought her the watch (who she apparently said she was cutting it with), is back in dubai and wanted to see her for lunch!. I said OK, no problem, but she sensed I was a bit surprised/bothered... she explained that she has been ignoring most of his calls, but that he said that he wanted to talk to her when he came to dubai to wish her a happy birthday etc..
When we hung up, she wrote this message: "you really are someone very special to me. i kiss you 100 times. and you are better than anyone, believe me"... I replied that she is special to me too, I kiss her 99 times ;), and to enjoy her lunch
I then went for lunch with my family... she called me a couple hours later and wanted to see me... I saw her for like 30 minutes... she was all over me.. trying to kiss me and make out etc... of course I kissed her back.. but when I tried to open up the subject of the watch guy and see what happened and what he said, she said she didn't feel like talking about it
So either there is smthg she wants to hide/not talk about, or she just wants to concentrate on OUR time together, and not talk about this guy
Anyway... I felt a bit bored/tired of the situation... so I called the girl of the concert up, and said that I would take up her offer for drinks tnight... I picked her up, we went for a drink... then some dancing and grinding and hand holding ;), then dropped her home... its obvious she wants me, but I'm still unsure...
Anyway, I'm interested to know what is going on.. I thought she cut it with the watch guy... but maybe he came back begging or got her some other really expensive gift... or maybe she did cut it, and that's why she called me right after they finished their lunch and was all over me...
But also its not my business...
Going to concentrate on my family now... getting tired of this situation sometimes
talaniman... I agree with your post... until someone gets tired or has courage to end it, it will lstay like this
I am getting tired, that is for sure...
Once again she already told you that she didn't want anything serious so what do you think that means? She wants to play the field.
I guess she lied about the guy and I bet the guy doesn't know about you. Again don't take her word about certain things but you never know what she is telling the other guy.
Tab, don't believe the lie about her going out with him so he can wish her a happy birthday. But then again your aren't in a relationship so, oh well!
I think you should just ask her. I think it is your business.
You are tired because you are angry.
She was honest with you about seeing him. Ask he what happened and tell her you want an exclusive relationship with her and is that ever going to happen. I think you should bring things to a head. If she doesn't want one, then fine. Move on. Maybe she's just waiting for you to say you want an exclusive relationship...
Hey tab. Yeah I use to be in your spot man. And it took me a long time. To get out of it.
The girl just keept giving me that damn carrot in front of my face and I was like a blind horse. Running whenever she wanted me
And staying back whenever she told me to.
Gah! Makes me pisst just thinking about it.
Your own pride will kick in soon enough I'm sure of it.
And you will find a way out of this.
No matter what.
Yes, it applies to both genders. A person with high interest level will do anything to make things happen. Where as, a person with low interest level will make all sorts of excuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
So you are saying that if things don't click immediately, you should never pursue a relationship?
I'm asking because I've read so many stories (real and fictional) about protracted courtship, where many obstacles are overcome. People always seem to romanticize situations where one person is initially not interested but the other person overcomes their resistance. People who have been married for 50 years will say, Joe was so shy I had to pursue him, or Helen wasn't interested in me at first but she finally fell in love with me.
Do you think those are flukes? Or just not worth the trouble now when people can meet so many other potential partners?
No I am not saying things have to click immediately. What I am conveying is gauge the person’s interest level.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
Let’s take an example:
This is assuming that the two individuals involved have pass the initial attraction test -- without that you really have nothing.
1) You get a person’s number - - nice start
2) Call and ask to meet for a coffee or a drink -- just very casual meeting
3) The request will be either accepted or rejected - - a person with really high interest level will accept without hesitation. In some situations, the individual might have something important already planned, in that case, the person with high interest level will counteroffer for another day and they will also honor it. Whereas, a person with low interest will make this lame excuses, like – my mom is sick, I am very busy at work, I have to take my dog to the vet, I am stressed out, I am not feeling well, may be next time - - you hear everything except, I am busy at this day but I can make at another specific day.
4) A sensible person just moves on.
5) A clown will keep calling – getting voicemails, un-answered phone calls or sometimes if the person has nothing better to do, they might take your date. From here on is a downward spiral.
Yes, reading books helps (real and fictional) and of course, listening to people is good, however, You have to look at things individualistically.
This is all interesting, but listen to what finally happened:
I ENDED IT
I saw her today, and we had a nice time, we had the usual kissing and making out, etc. then I askd her what she was going to do and if she wanted to have dinner. She said she didn't want to because she had to sleep early for a meeting tmrw... mind you this was at 12.00 am... so I said OK, sleep well, etc.
At 1.30 am, I'm in a hotel lobby with some friends, going to have a drink... I see her walking in from far... I call her mobile, she doesn't answer... I message saying "what are u doing in Manzil hotel?"... she calls back and tells me that she came here to see the watch guy to end it with him
So I said "what u think i was born yesterday? i know why u came here"
She kept saying that if she wanted to lie to me she would have said that she was here to see someone else, but that she is telling me the truth by saying she is here to see him
I told her OK, I understand your here to see him, but I don't believe your here to end it! Who the fcuk ends things at 1.30 am and you come to his hotel? Have you ever heard of a phone, or ending it in the day
She said that he was travelling the next day early morning, and he wanted to see her, so she felt that she had to end it face to face
I told her I didn't believe her... she started begging me to believe her... bla bla bla... she said that she will call me tmrw (we spent 30 minutes on the phone-she left him to talk to me)... I told her not to bother... she said "u know what, if u believe me or not, that is ur choice"... we hung up...
I started thinking on the ride back home... should I give her the benefit of the doubt or not... she sounded honest and was begging me to believe her... is there a small chance she really was there to end it?
So I decided to go to her house and wait for her and talk to her... it became 5 am and she still didn't come home... so either the guy is fcuking her brains out, or she really takes her time ending it with guys
So I sent her a message saying that "for a while, i really started to believe you, and was waiting for u at ur house bc i felt like seeing u...but its 5am and ur still not here...so i guess i was right in not believeing u"... then I wrote this whole thing about how I hope one day she will realize how much I care about her etc, and I hope one day she will wake up and realize we are great together and stop the games, etc... but that for now, I can't handle sharing her with anyone... I have to stop pretending that I'm OK having some other guy touch her... I tell her that I love her,and if I did, then I wouldn't be able to be OK with sharing her... I wished her the best and told her that I will miss all the good times, and to take care of herself...
I sent this message at 5am... its now 7 am dubai time and no reply... so either she is thinking it over and doesn't know what to say, or she is asleep at his hotel room...
Either way, I feel like I a huge burden was lifted
Many of you are wondering why I got angry if it was an open relationship... 2 reasons: I really like the girl... love her even... I was OK with an open relationship because I didn't want to lose her... but many times it did bother me... second reason... the lie... I really didn't care that she was with him... I don't get jealous of other guys... what killed me is that she said she was going to stay home and then I see her I na hotel at 1.30 am...
I can't forget the feeling that I felt when I saw her entering the hotel at 1.30 am and knowing she is here to see him and go to his room...
Its different SAYING your OK with an open relationship... but when you actually SEE the girl with another guy, that's what counts! And I couldn't handle it
Anyway... I was great to the girl... didnt pressure her into having sex... treated her like a queen... was always there for her... probably gave her more than she deserved for her birthday...
So we'll see what she has to say IF she calls tmrw or ever... if not, I really have no regrets... I gave my best to this girl... I waited for her, etc... if she wants to be serious, she knows my number... but until then, I can't handle being lied to or sharing her with someone
Duuuude
Finally!
Yeah really who goes to end something at 1.30am! HA!
I really hope you don't take her back man.
I really really hope this is the end.
It sounds like it.l
As you have just now said everything that we have all been telling you. Over the past.. 5 months.
Good! Now I'm happy :) I had a real bad day today
But after reading this. I'm all kinds of happy!
Good for you Tab!
May you stay strong
And find a girl that is WORTH spending your time with. And makes you feel special in everyway! And 2nd best to no one!
And loves you if you have 1 coin on you.
Or 30billion.
And
(((cant forget the feeling that I felt when I saw her entering the hotel at 1.30 am and knowing she is here to see him and go to his room... )))
Yeah that kind of sinking feeling in your belly. And then your heart races. It feels like its going to jump right out of your chest..
Yeah that's you feeling used and betrayed. I have been there before
And there is nothing more anoying than people lying to others!
Or to themselves
All the best tab
Thanks for the words of encouragement.. appreciate it
Yeah... I didn't believe that she was going to end it at 1.30 am either
I think she was shocked that I caught her red handed, panicked, and said that she was going to end it
I'm sure she knew from the day that she was going to see him at night, and that is why she said no to dinner with me
Anyway, maybe she is lying, maybe she is not, maybe she did really go to end it... but I like this feeling of not caring anymore
She probabaly feels like crap that she got caught in the lie.. and that she hurt me...
Maybe that will be enough for her to realize that she wants to be with me and stop with the games...
If not, then it wasn't meant to be... itsa shame.. I really know that we can be great together...
What's funny is that things probably would have stayed the same if she didn't lie... but she did lie... and I hate being lied to... from anyone
Going to his hotel to end it at 1.30 am! What the fcuk... and even if that was true... it takes 3 hours to end it? Whatever... anyway, she knows my number if she changes her mind... until then... good riddens,, going to channel my anger and go out and party and get laid and have threesomes, like the old tabbarat...
Dude, you just don't get it. You just love taking a beating from this girl. You're not done, if she comes back, you will go right back for more beating. I really don't feel bad for people like you. You are doing the samething over and over, you just don't learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
I don't get it? I finally tell her that I'm sick of sharing her and playing games and to take care and goodbye...
What else could I have said?
If she calls.. its simple: u ready for smthg serious or exclusive relationship? Because I'm sick of open relationships and I don't like being lied to... seeing you entering the hotel at 1.30 am made me realize that and woke me up... if yes, lets take it slow and we'll see
If no, or has some excuse, I'll say we have nothing to talk about
Good step!
U know, a part of me was thinking "u have great sex with this girl...true she lied to u...but u guys really like each other and have good sex..and it IS an open relationship...just let it pass"
I was thinking of just telling her, "u know what, forget it...good luck ending it...call me tmrw" and then back to the cycle
But maybe seeing her in the hotel at 1.30 going to his room was a sign from the heavens telling me to wake the fcuk up!
This is not an open relationship, if it was anything she does would not have bothered you at all. The reality is, she just would not commit to you so you had to take whatever she gives you and you call it open relationship.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
Now listen to me...
If she calls or text don't respond at all. The only way to take her back is if she calls you 10 times and started banging in your door begging to take her back. If that happens, you have a chance. Until then stay away.
Just end this farce in your own mind, and get back to reality. If you want drama, and intrigue, turn on the TV, if you want good sex, a nice tamale.
This is a game, and she is a playa, a good one. You can't win. Going back you lose.
I think it's weird that people here continue to act as if tabbarat has been faithful as a dog to this woman and she's done this terrible thing, when he's been sleeping around continuously throughout their relationship. He was neither being totally open about it, nor sparing her knowing about it, but instead keeping her wondering all the time. That's a sick game.
He's angry now because she (finally) appears to be doing the same thing he's been doing. He was fine if the relationship was "open" for him but not her. He was fine if the relationship was open but she didn't ever act on it. But it's not fine if it's actually open for her too. It's not that he can't handle the openness when it's in his face, it's that he can't handle it when SHE is doing what he does. His double standard is totally transparent. And there's no evidence that it's "different when she does it."
I would not commit to a guy who was sleeping with a new girl every week no matter what he said. On top of that, even when she's been totally honest, t has never taken her at her word, but was always wondering in his heart if he was somehow being taken advantage of. I think if indeed she did sleep with this guy, which we still don't know (it IS possible to spend a lot of time breaking up with someone), then tabbarat's own games contributed to it. A case of self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't think he's been honest with her, so it doesn't surprise me that she lied to him, too.
Time to break up. Enough drama.
I agree with you asking
The thing that makes me happy is he is finally ending the insanenuss :)
But then again..Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueFaith
He can simply let himself sink in the quicksand
Maybe.. but lets hope not]
Maybe we can finally put the thread to bed.
And have him open up another
More along the lines of..
Oh my god I met this awesome chick!
We are getting married in mexico!
Now that would be fun :)
For the last time... I only slept with 2 tamales... and that was when we were I na grey area... after she told me that she was talkking to her ex of 10yrs again... I NEVER slept with anyone when things were good between us... I had chances, and met some girls, but I would feel guilty even kissing them
I was only seeing tamales because she wasn't giving me sex... but since we started having sex, I haven't even thought about sleeping with someone else... if you remember, I said I took the girl I met at the concert back HOME... alone
We weren't sleeping together AND she broke up with me..,. so I slept with girls... we were on a break/broken up... but not since the past 2 months
But when things were good between us/and we were seeing each other and having a great time and making out/having sex... she was always my number one... no lying/no tamales
Again.. I said I got pissed that she lied... and not that she was with him
I knew she was there to see him... she told me she was also... I said OK.. no problem... but don't lie and say your here to end it at 1.30 am
I called her when I saw her.. she didn't answer.. obviously because she is pretending to be asleep... but when I messaged her saying I saw her.. she calls back... a big lie and game
When did I EVER do smthg like that?
Why do I feel like I was cheated on, but I never made her feel like that
Maybe I met/flirted with other girls... but not to the point of having a relationship with them, going on dates, going to their hotel, lying, etc... NEVER
Of course it was "open" and we're both free... but I never lied...
In fact, if you remember when she asked me if I slept with someone, I told her yes... when I asked her if she was sleepping with this watch guy, she didn't deny it (didnt say yes though)
Maybe I was vague sometimes... and I had some games here and there... but I never lied and said "im tired, but then go to a girls hotel"
Flirting and dancing with a new girl, in no way compares to her pretending to be asleep, and then lying when I catch her and saying she is there to end it
I even told her "just tell me the truth..i know why u are here...just tell me the truth and i will always respect u for that".. I was very calm... wasnt angry at all yesterday when talking to her
And about me keeping a door open: its just if she realizes she can't be without me.. maybe this ordeal will shake her up and set her priorities straight... maybe her missing me will make her realize that she wants to be with me... maybe this is the "shake up" everyone was talking about that we needed to set us on the right path
If not... then fcuk it... I feel OK... a bit sad and "cheated on" but relaxed and ready to go back to the tabbarat of before 7 mnths ago...
Also.. she hasn't replied yet...
It is obviously because she doesn't know what to say... if she didn't care, she would at least write back "ok, its too bad, wish u the best too...hope it could have been different, etc."
But no reply means that she is still speechless about me catching her red-handed
Whatever..
First, you don't know what she is thinking or doing when she is not with you. Stop saying that she is thinking about it- she may or may NOT be doing this.
Also, you can't say that you never made her feel a certain way because those are her feelings and you don't know what she is feeling because those feelings are hers, NOT YOURS.
HOWEVER... I need to say congratulations for FINALLY seeing the light. I am so proud of you.
A bigger however is that I really don't believe that you ended it. I think you are going to answer your phone or she is going to text you and you are going to reply. I won't believe that you will stick to your guns until you actually do. I am personally putting a challenge to you as I bet you are going to back peddle and believe whatever she says because that is what you want to hear.
In regards to both parties, both of you were players. However, both of you had a right to be with other people because there was no committed relationship. BUT both of you lied to each other. Everyone knows what lying is, but sometimes people don't realize that leaving out information is a FORM of lying. Both of you are guilty of both. You both omitted things and both of you lied to each other at least once to each other.
I don't want to beat you up when you really have come so far and if you REALLY mean what you say, that you have ended it. You have nothing to prove to anyone but yourself. However, if you get back with this girl, I don't know what to say. I guess you would be a glutton for punishment.
In regards to Asking's comments, I TOTALLY agree with what you said. I also think that he had a double standard. Let's just hope he has learned SOMETHING from all of this.
Who wants to bet that he is going to take her back?
I agree that we both played games... yes... but when did I ever let it get to a point of a relationship with someone else?? And lying! And cancelling plans with me to see someone else at 1.30 am...
Flirting, and seeing other people, and not being committed is one thing... but being in a relationship with someone else is a bigger thing... so sorry, I don't compare the two
I feel cheated on, but I never made her feel like that... or she would have told me... and I know she would have
About taking her back... if she is ready for smthg serious, then so am I... its nothing new.. u knew this from day 1... ur problem with me is that I stuck around someone who didn't want to be serious... well, I'm not going to do that anymore... I hope she realizes that all games should stop
But if she doesn't, then its OK too
Just to elaborate... yes, I met girls, and flirted, talked to them etc... but nothing serious... for her to lie to me and see him at 1.30 in a hotel means that there is smthg bigger
Again, I don't care that she was with HIM... what I care about is lying...
In lebanon we have a saying... dont be afraid of someone who is vague or omits some information... its the one that can lie straight to your face that you should watch out for
And a question... if she feels like she did nothing wrong or that its normal because I lied to etc... then why didn't she write smthg back?
Not writing anything back for 12 hrs means that some serious thinking is taking place
I don't know the status of the situation right now, but I see the thread here is still alive. Tabbarat, I give you a medal for being the most persistent guy I've ever seen. :P What a trooper this guy is!
Haha! Thanks... stay tuned ;)
You are way off base, especially since you have been presuming, and assuming, and rationalizing your way through this whole thing.
You ignored every red flag, and ran headlong into that proverbial brick wall, over and over again. Now you have a headache that your blaming her for.
That's like being bitten by a snake, and being mad at the snake, because that's what they do. Did you notice the fangs?
You are stubborn, but not true to yourself. That's your biggest problem. I tell everyone you can't change someone's mind, or make them do what you want. She didn't want what you wanted so we have conflict, and confusion. Amazing how that always happens. Easy call there.
Honest communications, and listening could have given you a chance, but now let me leave you with this:
No trust= No relationship, but recognize you didn't have a relationship to begin with, and after all of this drama, still won't.
Give it a break! A long one!
Of course no trust is no relationship... and I am giving it a break... I wrote that message explaining everything... that I'm sick of games and of lying and sharing her... if she realizes she can't be without me and wants to move forward, we have smthg to talk about... but if she just wants to get back because she misses me, then of course not
I think the fact that she hasn't replied to my message means she is seriously doing some thinking about what she wants... sure she is probably shy/ashamed that I caught her at 1.30 am and probably lying, but she is using that noggin of hers... if she wasn't and didn't care, she would have quickly replied and said "ok, do what makes u happy"
I'm taking a break... no move from me... I left with my head high, giving her a great birthday, and with a strong message... what she decides is her choice...
I'm going to party tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
Everyone is telling you to stop the maddess but you don't listen.
"i think the fact that she hasnt replied to my message means she is seriously doing some thinking about what she wants" -- YOU DON'T KNOW THAT
"sure she is probably shy/ashamed that i caught her at 1.30 am and probably lying, but she is using that noggin of hers... " -- YOU DON'T KNOW THIS EITHER.
"im taking a break...no move from me...i left with my head high, giving her a great birthday, and with a strong message...what she decides is her choice..." - - NO YOU DID NOT LEAVE WITH HEAD HIGH, YOU WERE BEGGING HER.
LET ME PUT IT THIS WAY FOR YOU, THIS GIRL HAS NO RESPECT FOR YOU.
NO RESPECT=NO LOVE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by face_reality
Quote:
Originally Posted by face_reality
FR, I agree with your first two statements, but I have to say that you don't know either what this woman is thinking or feeling. None of us really does.
I'm interested to hear why you guys think she hasn't replied yet? I think its because she is shy, ashamed, caught red-handed, and doesn't know what to say, and she is thinking about what to say/do...
I feel if she didn't care she would have contacted and said "ok, as u wish, take care"
It has been 24 hrs...
Let me hear your explanations.. im all ears
And I agree with asking, NO ONE can know what she is thinking... but I do know her pretty well, and I am the one involved, so I probably have the closest answer
I think she couldn't care less.
That's what people do. She is banging that other guy and is all kinds of happy about it
And just sees you as a hurt puppy.
Dude :) forget about it
Come on you was doing so well!
I am.. I had fun with my friends today... I really am OK... I feel fine and was dancing and talking to this girl all night in the club and got her number
But you keep making it seem that she is a heartless bit*ch... that she didn't reply because she doesn't care... I know her man... if she didn't care she would have written back smthg normal
I know that what this girl was scared of the most was losing me... she didn't want to commit or be serious, but she also didn't want to lose me... now that she has, its probably shaking her up
We used to see and talk to each other everyday for the past 7 mnths! Sometimes for 10 hrs a day... its not easy
Maybe she still is banging that other guy and didn't end it as she claims... but I know that me FINALLY ending it with her, when she thought she hd me in her life for good, definitely shook her up
Anyway, I am not contacting her at all... forever even... its her move... whatever is the outcome, I'm OK with... tmrw night another party... no work till Thursday!
I make her out to be heartless?
Oh no no no no. Heartless is not a word I would use for the two of you.
WEll lets not think what she is thinking or feeling
And as you know it is her move.
So best advice I can give you
Stop thinking about what she thinks and feels
And get on with your life.
I agree with you on that. Nothing you've said makes either of you sound heartless or cold. It's clear that there is real fondness on both sides. But there's also a lot of confusion and apparently anger too.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
Who cares??Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
Honestly Tab this just shows that you'd jump again at the slightest hint of her showing interest again , I can see it and I'm sure the others can as well.
Stand up and be a man my friend and be honest with yourself , don't let your emotions cloud your judgement and just forget this girl.
Even with the slightest chance that she wanted to be with you , and you have admitted yourself it would never work out , what's the point.
This thread has run longer than M*A*S*H.
Though it is certainly the hottest soap opera on AMHD, it is hard to take it seriously anymore. As it has become more of a daily therapy session than a help session. Like a soap opera, the endings always end up the same no matter how many plot twists. :-)
There was serious advice given months ago and it was accurate and provided a clear insight. This was never meant to be - and by not going to NC as advised, you merely became a bridge to the next guy rather than a river she had to cross or not. She has been honest (mostly) and so have you, but this thing will never have the ending you desire no matter how cool you play it. You fell in LOVE. It happens. But if a woman wants you will KNOW it. Any mixed signals are to be only taken as one thing: STOP.
You saying it's HER MOVE is not honest.
It's always been her move and she chose not to be serious.
Sorry bud. Time to move on.
This thread continues because he is doing a lot of rationalizing. If you are SOOO confident that you know this girl so well, then why are you having problems? Again, you don't know what another person is feeling or thinking. Stop trying to figure out what she is thinking and then rationalizing why she did not respond. Just because you would have done something does not mean that the other person would do the same thing. NO ONE can predict why a person decides to do something. So, when you are asking us to tell you what she could have been thinking by not responding, we don't know and we will never really know. Focus on yourself and what you are going to do and stop obsessing over what you think she is doing and thinking. The only person you have control over is yourself.
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