Thanks for the "ur not a bad a guy" comment, talaniman.. ur right ;)

Its true... I can't win, if winning is having a serious real relationship with her... it seems she doesn't want one or is not ready for one... so that's why I'm taking emotions out of it before I get eaten alive

And that is why your new bet, seems logical... I think for the time being, I will see no change... or "im stuck" as you said earlier... it will continue to be an open relationship/non serious/friendship with benefits kind of thing for a while

EN KEN: good to hear from you again... but lets hold our horses! :) I never said she is having sex with this new guy... they have been talking on the phone for almost a month and have had maybe 4 or 5 dates... im hoping that it will take her 7 mnths to sleep with him, just like it took her to sleep with me! Because I really believed her I only sleep with guys I really care about and love, and am hesitant to get into anything serious now speech

However, although her speech may be true and she did eventually sleep with me, it could also be a bad thing... maybe after finally sleeping with me, it helped her cut off the past of her ex, and now she is less restricted about sex! Maybe I released the beast inside her! Lol

Anyway, I'm sure she kissed him, but still unsure about the sex... and of course not going to ask... just going to not care and not think about it... bc I'm going out tonight and will hopefully have sex too or meet someone I like

I agree with the rest of the post... it is going to be a while before this open relationship becomes closed... and also, God only knows how many guys she will go through or girls I will lgo through before it closes...

But I can tell you that our open relationship was built on the fact that we care about each other so much, we get along, we like the physical aspects, and we are good friends, that it was just hard to let go

I agree with everyone when they tell me this isn't healthy... but it is hard for both of us to just let go, and that's why we settled in an open relatonship

But here is the important update... I knew that the new idiot guy travelled last night, so I was going to play it cool today and see how she reacts when he leaves... so the day started by HER calling me.. again... and her saying she wants to see me and have lunch... we spent about 4 and a half hours together... it felt exactly the same? And on top of that, we still held hands and kissed?

So either she is really good at acting, or I was right: we can do what we want with other people, but we will always have that bond/link that keeps us coming back

Anyway, it just proved to me that it is still not serious with this guy, or she still has the same feelings for me...

Let the real open relationship begin! :)

I still don't understand why you feel it's okay for you to have sex with other women while seeing her but it's not okay for her to do the same. You have a double standard, T. I don't think you can legitimately justify that.

Your right... I don't know... maybe because from day 1 I wanted to have a serious relationship with her, and she was hesitant... maybe because for 7 mnths I wanted to sleep with her, but she wasn't ready

So even though I did eventually sleep with her, a selfish side of me is hoping she will do the same to other guys (make them wait and see if they DO really care about her and are willing to wait)

Another reason, because a part of me still loves her, so I wouldn't like to hear about her sleeping with someone else

But I'm sure she wouldn't like it either...

So anyway, call me crazy... but these are my reasons

Anyway, I guess all we can do is just try not to think about it, and to each one his own.. and then when me and her are together to just concentrate on us

Holy sh*t how many time do we go over this just because you act like a lap dog when she calls doesn't mean sh*t. Forgive me for not understand but if you have feelings for someone (strong like you said) why must she see other people. For that matter why you?

By the way, I noticed smthg... when the guy calls when I'm with her, she either doesn't answer or answers and cuts the conversation short

I do the same when a girl/tamale calls me... but the reason I do it is to keep a vagueness/play a game...

Game players always think others are playing a game.

In your case, she may well be playing a game as are you. Your mind will be playing tricks on you, as long as your in this game.

The thing is, if your playing your games, why can't she? The way I see it, she is the better player, and you won't win at her game. Make no mistake, it is her game your playing, and you asked for it. Enjoy!

You may not know for sure whether she's having sex with the other guy, but I would assume she is. Even though my instincts say that she hasn't, I would still assume that they have because that's the assumption that must be made in an open relationship.

In an open relationship, you MUST assume that the people involved in it are all seeing other people because that is the nature of an open relationship.

Also, if you really want to make an open relationship work, stop focusing on what she does with other guys and focus on what she does with you. What she does with another guy is none of your business. Unless you two have sat down and explicitly decided that you're both going to tell each other who you've been dating, don't share that information.

The only thing you should be concerned about when it comes to her is the time that she spends with you. That's it. Date other people and look for the girl who you can have a strong relationship with.

Enken, I agreed with your post... I should do exactly what you said and worry less about the other guy and more on the time she spends with me...

But I have a question here (for everyone), since I am new to this open relationship stuff: Is lying allowed?

I mean if I ask what she is doing or what she did last night, and she LIES... is that still considered fair/part of an open relationship?

My point is, that seeing other people and each one is free to do what he wants is smthg; but isn't lying sort of a red line?

Maybe I'm being a bit naïve, but to me lying os lying, no matter what or who the person is and the relationship you have...

Lying is never a good option, but getting in the perssonal business of another is not allowed either. If she says none of your business, then that's the end of that.

None of your business is smthg, and lying is smthg else... anyway, advice I got from some friends is to not care/think about it... just concentrate on OUR time together

Went to the concert today... had a great time... actually, I picked up 2 girls girls there, and brought the mto our table... spent a lot of time flirting and dancing with one of them and got her number... my ex wasn't too pleased... but I didn't mind... was having fun.. but at the end of the night my ex and I ended up holding hands and kissing... go figure

WHAT!! You went to a concert with your ex (or whatever she is) and then picked up TWO girls in front of her?? What in the h*ll are you doing? You DON'T do that kind of thing EVER to a person you say you care about. Once and for all, stop playing games!! I'm not saying that for the mere fact that if you stop you will get her (because I honestly don't think you will). Games are for the immature and you are proving to everyone here that you are probably the most stubborn and immature individual on the planet. How old are you anyway? I think that it is time that you seek professional help because what you and her are doing is soooo totally unhealthy, it is beyond unhealthy. It is downright cruel and in a way emotionally abusive. If you don't stop the way that you have been acting, you will NEVER be able to have a successful relationship. You are only hurting yourself and all future relationships that you will have.

Talaniman, I know. I just could not help but make a comment on Tab's actions. It got a rise out of me!!

Tab, I just hate the fact that you constantly say that you care/love this girl, but your actions just don't follow that.

Talaniman is absolutely correct on his comment to my post. You guys have nothing better to do.

Stop being such a player and be true to yourself.

You honestly don't love anyone, not even yourself. All your do is think highly of yourself and ALWAYS ACCEPT THE FACT from those who support your views.

THis is the 60th page and we're still debating the same thing.

3 words: GET OVER IT.

There is never any pleasing you guys! I actually go out and try to meet some girls and do my own thing, I get a bashing... when I stay with her or go with her for lunch, you say I'm a lap dog! I honestly don't care anymore (im sure you guys already know that)

And just to clarify... I didn't go with her alone and pick up 2 girls in front of her! I would NEVER do that... there is smthg called respect!

I had reserved a table... I invited her AND her friends to come... I was there with MY friends ALSO... I invited two girls standing next to my table to join us...

It wasn't in the way as if I picked them up and ditched her! NO WAY! I would hurt myself before hurting her in that way!

These two girls were nice... my friends talked to them, as did I... one seemed to take a liking to me... but this does NOT mean I ignored my ex! I still danced and sat with her... and I told the waitress to take care of her "bc she is very special to me", and my ex thought that that was very sweet... and the night ended by me leaving with my ex, not the 2 girls... her and her friends are priority... and no matter what you think, I am a gentleman... I was just having a bit of fun on MY table and trying to meet new girls... and to be honest, yes, part of the flirting I had with the new girl was to piss off my ex...

And sorry, but I'll cut off smthg very important to me if no other guy has ever done that in his life (try to make his ex jealous)

I appreciate your advice, mom.. I swear... but please don't overreact and start saying its terribly unhealthy and I screwed up all relationships in future... thats too pessimistic!. we are just 2 people that really like/care about each other, but at the moment (or maybe ever) are not together as a couple

By the way, I'm 27, she turns 25 in 2 days... bought her gifts totalling 2000 USD today and taking her and her aunt out to dinner... im so sweet :)

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Originally Posted by tabbarat

i would hurt myself before hurting her in that way!

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Originally Posted by tabbarat

..and to be honest, yes, part of the flirting i had with the new girl was to piss off my ex...

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Originally Posted by tabbarat

and sorry, but i'll cut off smthg very important to me if no other guy has ever done that in his life (try to make his ex jealous)

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You would never hurt her, but you deliberately hurt her to piss her off, but it's okay because some other guys do it too sometimes.

Phew! What happened to the romance?

Not all men try to make their partners jealous and not all women do that. In fact, a LOT of people never do this.

Just a thought, tabbarat, you live in one of the richest places on earth. I see what used to be thought as impossible feats of engineering happening there all the time on the Discovery and National Geographic networks. There's tons of stuff to do down there, so for your to still be hooked on this broad just seems wrong.

And here I am, looking out my window into yet another gray New England winter.

Dubai is a great place man... and if you do visit, do look me up...

But I can say the same thing about u.. I would love to g oto Boston or New York and see the night life there...

UPDATE: she cut it with the new guy... she said she got bored.. hasnt been answering his calls and distancing herself... yup, they always come back to tabbarat ;)

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Originally Posted by tabbarat https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/amhd_i...s/viewpost.gif
and sorry, but i'll cut off smthg very important to me if no other guy has ever done that in his life (try to make his ex jealous)

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Start cutting, as you're the game player. I never had time.

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true, but desperate times call for desperate measures

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What's desperate about keeping it real?

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UPDATE: she cut it with the new guy... she said she got bored.. hasnt been answering his calls and distancing herself... yup, they always come back to tabbarat ;)

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There will be someone else. She can afford to wait, playa.

Took her and her aunt to dinner at the burj al arab hotel last night... spent 1000 USD! At the stroke of midnight I surprised her with a birthday cake... then we went for a drink... she told me that it was the best birthday she had in the last 5 yrs and probably one of the best ever! I really appreciated that... it was her first birthday away from her family so she was feeling sad and it made me happy that I could get her mind off that

Today we spent the whole day together, then at night she had a birthday dinner party organized with her friends... she got some flowers, perfumes, earrings, etc... then I gave her the gifts I bought her also worth over 1000usd, and a birthday card... she started crying when she read the card! :( in it I wrote how I went to my brothers party looking for fun, but didn't expect to meet someone I would care about with all my heart... then I reminisced about some of our memories over the past 7mnths, and told her that no matter the ups and downs we have, she will always have my heart and be someone I care about... you are my lover, my best friend, and I will always hope to see you happy, etc.

Seeing her cry really made me feel like crying...

2 things I want to point out: for all the people that still doubt I really like this girl, I hope you will stop saying that... and for those that doubt that she really likes me, also stop that

I have only loved 2 girls in my mostly-single life, and she is one of them... u know you love someone when seeing them sad/crying makes you sad/want to cry... u know someone loves you when they cry at some nice words you write them

I really wish all these stupid games and ups and downs and open relationships would end... but I guess right now, these are the cards we were dealt

About the gifts... some people think I over spent on her... I got the question "why? she isnt even ur gf"... honestly, 2 reasons... one being the new guy bought her a $10,000 watch, so I wanted to at least play in the same ball park... I can't afford to spend 10 grand on a watch, but I can afford to spend 2-3 grand to make her happy...

The second reason, I really wanted to buy her nice things and make her happy... I got her 3 things, and each one had a reason... a meaning to why I bought it... for example, a bag that I noticed she liked, or shoes that I felt she would like to have because hers were starting to get old, or smthg she mentioned once, etc.

All I know is that we have been spending a lot of time together and we are both loving it... is it only because of the emtions of the birthday, or is there smthg real? I guess time will tell...

Also, the girl from the concert called me and wants to see me this weekend... to be honest... right now, after seeing her cry when she read my card, I really don't know if I'm going to go or not... let me sleep on it, let the wine leave my system, then decide... take care!

Sounds great!

But what's to sleep on? Why start pursuing another girl at this juncture?

Your girlfriend is not seeing this other guy. She's seeing you all the time. She's sleeping with you. You enjoy each other; you say you care for her and she cares for you. What more do you want?

It's your move to stop with the tamales and prove you really do care about a serious monogamous, non open relationship. This is what you said you wanted. It's on your plate. If you keep seeing other women at this point, you don't want to be in a monogamous relationship.

Sorry I'm cranky, but I just don't get what more you could ask for at this point. I never thought were being taken advantage of, by the way. But I think you are sending her very mixed signals and it doesn't surprise me that she get upset sometimes. Try being consistent, loyal, and faithful...

I wish! But I also got some people saying that "she will meet someone else, she can afford to wait"

This is what I'm wondering... if these past few days were just an emotional surge because of her birthday, or is it improvement?

I guess all I can do is wait and see how it goes for about a week (till she's "birthdayed" out)

Sometimes I get the feel that she just wants to be with me, and sometimes I get the feel that she still doesn't want a serious monogamous relationship...

And to be honest... until I'm 100 percent sure that things have been going great for a while, I'm not going to risk getting rejected and bring up the lets get back together speech

And true she cut it with this new guy, but did she do it for me, or for herself, or is it a phase and she may meet someone else, etc... too many questions still

I think I'm going to wait, and then have another serious conversation soon

And about the tamales, they were always just a means of me trying to move on or get sex... the moment my ex decides that she is ready for smthg serious, then so will I... and I will obviously stop the tamales...

But I also think it is wrong for me to base my life on hers... like she cut it with the guy... is it right for me to cut it with the girl merely because she is free now?

Too many questions and too tipsy to think :)

Thanks for the advice :)

You can't make someone want you or love you.. harsh as that is and whenever someone says *I need space* or any of those other little put offs they really mean they want to call it off and they are trying to spare your feelings.
I say cut your losses and find someone who is not into head games and knows what she wants.
Best of luck!

Tab I don't think there is a person on here who does not want to see you happy
You post here for views and we suer give them

Everyone as you know has the right to tell you
There views on this subject

I do hope these games get put out the window

Just be careful

Tab, I think your up to book #2.

The thing that continue to confuse me is that if your get along so well, your both like/care for one another then what's with all the games?

Life is short and tomorrow is never promise. The ex shouldn't even be an issue at this point and I've heard about people doing what your are doing for years but in reality they wasted time with one another by playing games. The only games I play are board games, Xbox, Playstation, and Wii.

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Originally Posted by tabbarat

took her and her aunt to dinner at the burj al arab hotel last night...spent 1000 USD!... then i gave her the gifts i bought her also worth over 1000usd,

i can't afford to spend 10 grand on a watch, but i can afford to spend 2-3 grand to make her happy...

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Christ Almighty. I was broke for two weeks when I spent $150 on the 4G iPod Nano. They must have ridiculous casinos down there; I'd be in heaven.

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Originally Posted by tabbarat

this is what im wondering...if these past few days were just an emotional surge bc of her birthday, or is it improvement?... sometimes i get the feel that she just wants to be with me, and sometimes i get the feel that she still doesnt want a serious monogamous relationship... and to be honest...until im 100 percent sure that things have been going great for a while, im not gonna risk getting rejected and bring up the lets get back together speech and true she cut it with this new guy, but did she do it for me, or for herself, or is it a phase and she may meet someone else, etc...too many questions still

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I think we finally got through to you.

At least with me, I just wish that you would stop with all of the games (i.e. trying to make her jealous, etc.). I would just hate for you to waste a lot of time with this girl if she is not able to give you what you want. It is VERY apparent that you want a serious relationship with her, but is she willing to give that to you? I honestly don't think so.

I truly believe that you are a nice guy and I do admire your persistence. However, you can't make another person want what you want. They need to want that for themselves. Although you don't want to have a serious conversation with her about your wants, I still think that it is a necessary thing. Otherwise, you will be strung along for a long time. Are you willing to do that? I don't see this changing in the real near future, if it EVER does. The only way that things will change is if SHE wants to change things. Right now, it is working for her because she has you to buy her expensive gifts, take her out to expensive dinners and lunches, etc. In some ways, you are acting as a couple, but you really are not. You tell the waitress that this girl is special to you, but then on the flip side, you can't call her your girlfriend. To me, this is messed up.

Sorry if I offended you by saying that you will have relationship problems in the future. What I meant to say is that with every relationship experience that you have, you learn something; both good and bad. When you are taken advantage of (which I think that you have been to a certain degree) that creates baggage if the relationship does not work out that you bring to future relationships. You worry that the new person you are with will treat you in the same manner, when they may not. But, it makes you defensive because you don't want to get hurt in the same way. That is what I meant, NOT that you are not capable of having meaningful relationships ever. But, the longer the games continue, the more baggage that you create for yourself.

Good luck to you. I really wish you well. But PLEASE stop with the game playing if you truly care for this girl. Don't try to make her jealous by telling her that you are going out with someone else. Since you are in an open relationship, you have the right to see other people, as does she. If you were in a committed relationship, which you are not, then I would not be saying that.

I hope that I made myself a little clearer. I personally don't like open relationships because they are so confusing, but that is just me.

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sometimes I get the feel that she just wants to be with me, and sometimes I get the feel that she still doesn't want a serious monogamous relationship...

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That's when you need to back off, and not accept what you don't want. That's why you are where your at now, in an open confusion... er... relationship.

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and to be honest... until I'm 100 percent sure that things have been going great for a while, I'm not going to risk getting rejected and bring up the lets get back together speech

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Basing your actions on fear, will get you no where, as your seeing. You have always had other options that have been offered to you, which fear keeps you from considering.

When you love someone you don't turn around, and kick them in the butt. (tamales, others) That's the games you two are playing. If she isn't worth the risk of a heart break, then my friend your wasting your time any way.

Your sending each other mixed signals out of fear, of being hurt or abandoned, and that leads to confusion, and the games your playing. That needs to stop, as someone has to take a stand, and say enough is enough, and put this on a course of honesty, and truth! For whatever reason, you haven't done that, so keep doing what your doing, and stay confused, or take some advice, and take a chance, and lay things out so you can deal with this honestly.

Yes, Talaniman is correct. (I tried to give you a greenie Tal, but it would not let me).

The key to all of this is that there is a lack of honesty. You may want to continue to avoid discussions out of fear of the unknown, but it all needs to be addressed soon. Otherwise, you run the risk of things never changing. The keys to any GOOD relationship is honesty, trust and communication. All of this is lacking in this relationship. That is why you have so much confusion.

I agree with Tal and Mom.

Further, I think as long as you are not fully committed, your girl will not be. You are waiting for her to be fully committed first, and you say you'll then follow. But it's easy to see she might be doing the same way. Each of you waiting for the other to show the signs of commitment. In reality, she's judging you and she knows you wander and that gives her doubts about you.

If you want her, then be steady and faithful. Commit. (No tamales!) THEN if you've been like that for x months and she's still in doubt, it's time to move on. But you can never find out what this relationship is really made of when you are playing games.

Protecting yourself is not brave. Love takes courage.

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Originally Posted by asking

I agree with Tal and Mom.

Further, I think as long as you are not fully committed, your girl will not be. You are waiting for her to be fully committed first, and you say you'll then follow. But it's easy to see she might be doing the same way. Each of you waiting for the other to show the signs of commitment. In reality, she's judging you and she knows you wander and that gives her doubts about you.

If you want her, then be steady and faithful. Commit. (No tamales!) THEN if you've been like that for x months and she's still in doubt, it's time to move on. But you can never find out what this relationship is really made of when you are playing games.

Protecting yourself is not brave. Love takes courage.

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You got it all wrong pal, and that's not even close to what talaniman and Mom of 2 said. Getting into a serious relationship is not tabbarat's decision. He wants to commit to her and gladly will, but she won't/can't do the same.

His best shot is to let her do her own thing (NC and all that jazz), and with good fortune she will come back, but don't expect it to be before six months to a year. And do not be her friend. She is a woman, so she will feed you this line, and when she does, either give her a blank stare and don't respond, or laugh in her face and walk-away; I'd go with the latter. You have to act like a man and put your foot down, and if she doesn't like it, tough sh*t!

I appreciate all the posts and advice, but I feel closer to slapshot's statements

U say I have to commit first, and then she will follow... its not simple... she KNOWS that I want a relationship with her, but am seeing tamales because I obviously am not going to let my life go by... she knows that the moment she wants smthg serious, I will be ready

Its true, SHE is the one that is not ready for smthg serious, not me...

But I do not agree with him about letting her go and HOPING she comes back... the reason is in all 61 previous pages.. no need to repeat :)

I agree that if you dump her, she will not come back.

I do not understand slapshot's reasoning about her being a woman and therefore feeding you lines. Has she asked to be just friends? I didn't think that had been an issue for a long time. Did I miss a few pages?

And I don't think women have cornered the market on game playing. In fact, overall, I think she's been more upfront than tabbarat. I assume she's hoping he'll give up the tamales when he's serious. So far, no. She's not seeing anyone else; he is. Right? If it were me, I'd be on the point of concluding he's not interested in an exclusive relationship, no matter what he said. Actions speak louder than words.

She didn't ask just to be friends... she said she is not ready for smthg serious but doesn't want to lose me... so we ended up in this sort of grey area/open relationship

We act like a couple, but there is no commitment... I wish there was, but there isn't because SHE isn't ready

And she did meet someone else and go on a couple for dates with him, but then she cut it off

I'm not seeing anyone else either... I met and flirted with a girl at a concert and she wants to see me tmrw, but nothing definite yet

I agree I have one weakness, though... that if she said she is ready to be my girlfriend and be in a closed relationship, I would stop what I'm doing and agree

But since she isn't ready, that is the reason I am out seeing tamales and meeting girls... bc I can't wait for her forever to make up her mind

I don't want to lose her too and we have a great time together and the feelings are there, etc... but I can't stop my life waiting for her to commit... just as she can't stop her life and live like a nun until she is ready to be serious with someone

Too confusing and too many questions... so I try to just relax, not think about it a lot and just enjoy OUR time together

Anyway, she called me today to say thank you again for the gifts and giving her a great birthday... she wanted to see me... so I passed by her house for 10 minutes and we had a nice talk and kissed a bit... then she went to bed because she had to wake up early and I went out with my friends

My family is coming into town for about 6 days tmrw, so I will be a bit busy with them,. maybe that's a good thing... we'll see

[QUOTE=tabbarat;1409616]
I agree I have one weakness, though... that if she said she is ready to be my girlfriend and be in a closed relationship, I would stop what I'm doing and agree/QUOTE]

I am glad to hear that. This is not a weakness! It's a strength.

That's the problem, she doesn't want what you want. At least not now, and I can understand that, after a 10 year relationship.

I can understand it also to some extent... so it is a question of: do I wait around until she is ready to commit, or do I just let go and hope when she is ready she will call?

I know it is on some levels wrong to wait around; but I also know that we make a great couple, and when she is ready we can have smthg good

Anyway... not going to get into this again... this issue was already beaten to death

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Originally Posted by tabbarat

i can understand it also to some extent...so it is a question of: do i wait around until she is ready to commit, or do i just let go and hope when she is ready she will call?

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For all the toing and froing on this thread this really is the bottom line in this situation.

And ultimately Tab you have to make the decision about whether its worth the effort or not.

Dude, you have got nothing with this girl. She does not like you. You're just the backup guy. When a girl tells you any of this, I am confused, shy, need space, lets be friends or anything along that line it means she has very little interest in you. Now let that sink! Do you think if George clooney came alone and asked her she would to him she is in love with her ex or she is confused? She would not even mention her ex (he does not exist). So now just move on to the next girl, save yourself.

You think if Heidi Klum came to me, I would tell her "no, sorry, im in love with this girl, or i really like this girl, etc.?" of course not...

Its poor logic..

Look at the facts... she wants me around just as much as I want her around... she calls me and wants to do things with me even more than I do sometimes... she decided to sleep with me... re-read the post about her crying when she read what I wrote her on her birthday card... etc... so I ask myself, if she doesn't like me or doesn't care (as you say), why all the effort from her side as well?

I agree maybe she doesn't want anything gserious right now... but to bluntly say she doesn't like you is wrong... especially when her words and actions show otherwise

Anyway, I hate going into this again... it has been beaten to death over the last 62 pages... move on