 |
Wow, 5 yrs.
That's a long time.
Love is love.
Maybe she just needs some time.
Girls never really show why they need to breakup.
Its honestly one of the heardest things to do.
Especially if we're "in love"
But yeah, like you said, maybe she has a lot on her plate.
Her family, & her love life.
But basically I'm just saying.. give it some time.
And try talking to her in a couple weeks or something :)
Let me know what happens:)
-Fahtee.(fah uh teaa)
Im on no contact. There won't be any talking. I will give it time though, thanks.
Your welcome.
But you got to keep trying.
If you honestly LOVE her,
Then don't give up on her.
If you do, then you obv don't love her like you say you do.
Yes, it won't be easy & will take time.
But that's what love is all about, patience.
OK. Part of you is doing something that you don't want to do. Get into a working state and communicate. Ask that part what he is doing for you by running the tape of her transgressions over and over. You might also treat this continuance of agony as an objection to resolving things the way you have envisioned so far. Something is missing. (It's time to dream ) What will refine the changes you are making in yourself in order to assimilate all this so that the need behind these repeating patterns is satisfied?Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Remember that, no matter what you feel, this part is working on your behalf. He's part of you trying trying to get something for you that you need. It's not logical from your perspective because consciously, you want it all to stop. So you're confused. (Hmmm... I wonder if you can imagine what it will be like when it finally does stop.) What would you feel if this episode in your life were all done?
Prepare, ask, & listen. If you don't value what he is doing for you, ask at the next level: "What are you getting for me by doing x?" (We discussed this) Stay in rapport. What need is this behavioral loop fulfilling in you?
And... with all this inner work, it might happen that you become distracted by something else, and just forget to agonize.
tao
Tao, once again that really helps.
In this process and trying to understand its usefulness, I have been open, recognized that there were parts there & communicated and listened.
What I am stating to realize is that I have not been calling the meetings yet. Ive been another attendee. I need to start having a series of ongoing meetings with ones that can help at any given time.
What if I called Hope, Belief, Patience, Willingness, Acceptance, Realization, Success, Self-awareness, Happiness, Desire & Strength in? Maybe I invite Denial in to see what they have to offer.
And know that Fear, Agony, Apprehension & Confusion, among others are waiting outside the door, and ready to be called upon if necessary.
Thanks for that.
Start with Fear, Agony, Apprehension & Confusion. They are most ready to talk with you. They suffer, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
In this work, take the hard stuff first. The rest flows like a river.
Tao
I see. I will do that.
First, Vanheart is everything okay? You haven't been around for a couple days so just want to know how your doing.
Second, I have been gone for a week myself and just got caught up and I'm going to see if this makes sense...
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
I think they've been there the entire time but we as humans are afraid to be fearful so we hide them or ignore them. We try to avoid them and cover them up when in fact they are there to serve us just as much as happiness and joy. Fear, Agony, Apprehension and confusion should not be shunned at all, but rather recognized for their contributions.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
When you were searching for answers and you got the thoughts of her cheating, booking her flights and the break up those were these emotions speaking to you. They were saying you have a reasonable expectation of behavior from someone and she did not offer it to you. They are wanting to know why you allowed her to get away with this behavior when others couldn't. The hurt you feel is the hurt fear, agony, apprehension, and confusion feel because they served you and you did not serve them. The inner conflict is not about her at all but rather if you will continue to ignore these parts of you that are trying to serve you in the future. Your emotions fear, agony, apprehension, and confusion WANT to serve you, but they are unsure because they tried and it did not work out this time. But what about next time, will they be ignored or valued. That is the inner conflict. Do these parts of you need to re-evaluate themselves and what they will do?
Van tell me what you think. Am I close? Is there any eliminate to truth in what I'm driving at?
Tao, is this what Van should be getting? Is the inner conflict unrelated to the event (in this case the ex) but actually related to the confusion of the inner emotions and their role?
Chuffster, you have hit on something we all fail to understand, How we recognize and acknowledge our own feelings, and how to cope with them. That's the biggest part of life I think, not that we go through changes, birth, deaths, break ups, getting fired. But how we deal with them.Quote:
I think they've been there the entire time but we as humans are afraid to be fearful so we hide them or ignore them. We try to avoid them and cover them up when in fact they are there to serve us just as much as happiness and joy. Fear, Agony, Apprehension and confusion should not be shunned at all, but rather recognized for their contributions.
Tao's exercise is meant to bring that out in Van I think, not to talk for him, but from what I have been reading here.
Its an expansion of NC, letting the emotional dust settle, so you can make good decisions for YOURSELF, based on facts, and not just feelings.
Thanks, for checking in & you are right on. That's what I am trying to work on. Im still restless and almost every waking hour, I still think about this & her, even amongst my efforts to look inside. Wonder what she's doing, even she even gives a crap about me or feels the least bit guilty. I know this feels unproductive and almost keeps the pain alive, but I hope that these thoughts also help in some way. I keep trying to put myself in her shoes and still blown away how she used me & I allowed it. Doesn't make me happy in any way. Ive forcing myself to keep as busy as I can, even if its small things, but sometimes feel like I don't know what to do with myself. I have given so much of myself away, little by little that now Im kind of left feeling misdirected. Its been 17 days of NC & time is the only thing that helps that. Sometmes I just want to her her voice again, even though deep down I realize it was always an illusion. Pretty lame huh..
Lets say she does. That gives you some kind of relief because you know she screwed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Lets say she does not. You have a quality of life you expect and she does not meet up to it. You deserve better then she can offer because she is void of emotions.
They do help. By keeping the pain alive your brain is telling you or redirecting you to stay away from her. You emotion called pain is serving you and working for you. At some point that emotions will realize it's not needed and move on, so accept it now and encourage the process along by recognizing you will not accept that kind of behavior again.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
How about the way of education. You got one. Now you know what to look for in the future and what to avoid.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
You know I wound up coming to this site 3 years ago because I was acting like Mr. Nice Guy wuss boy getting mixed signals from some girl. I can't thank her enough for the pain she gave me then because it causes so much clarity since. For years prior to her I had the nice guy problem, where I would start fine and then turn into Mr. Nice Guy, doing everything for a woman giving myself away. That mistake cost me with the girl but brought me so much eduation over the last few years and led me to other girlfriends and dates with woman because of stuff I've learned. My point is out something bad I got something more valuable that will last me longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
What are you getting? Maybe it's still early for you to tell. But so far you've learned more about yourself from Tao then she was ever going to teach you. You've learned that she was was always selfish and you are can not correct that behavior so it's best YOU LET HER GO so she can practice that toxicity on someone else while you find a relationship that is more favorable to you, even if it's the one you are starting to have with yourself.
Thanks, Chuff.
That's really helps me to better understand some of these recurring thoughts & patterns. I realize that I don't need her grief. Time will help and like you say those emotions will fade, move on or become less frequent until asked back in again for another reason. This is all helping to let go. Sometimes it the little things that trigger those feelings. (places, history, curiosity, etc.. ) Im trying very hard to stay in touch with them when they emerge.
First, I am glad that you logged on and are doing OK, Van. We were getting concerned about you. Call us when you are going to be out late! (parental joke)Quote:
Originally Posted by chuff
That's a good take, Chuff. You've understood a bunch. Let's tweak it a little, fine tune it.
The sentence I've highlighted in red is the core statement. We all see the world and everyone in it through our own projections. We don't see what and who are there, but instead, we make a model, a representation of all the world and we work with it. Our representation has a lot less to do with the outside reality than it has to do with our inside reality. Our conflicts are primarily with ourselves.
(Note: See Greg Brodsky's bolg entry for May at: Brodsky’s Better Being Blog. He and I studied NLP together.)
Our brains operate in a cacophony of competing interests, processes, wants, and needs. Nobody is in charge and we end up doing what we do for reasons that we don't understand. Instead, we rationalize our reasons after the fact, and then believe they are true causes of our behavior. But we don't know how motivation, emotion, and consciousness work.
I used to enjoy John Grinder, co-founder of NLP, circa 1974-5, when he would start his workshops with, “Everything I am about to tell you is a lie. But, it is a useful lie. As long as the concepts we work with are useful, we will take them seriously.”
Any model we make up or "discover" is a lie, a fabrication of our minds as they attempt to capture the truth. While they all fail—no one has the inside scoop on reality yet—some models turn out to be more useful lies than others ("Parts," for example, provide better processes and choices than do "spirits.") The parts model gets even more useful when we assume that each part is a whole entity, like a complete person inside of us with its own point of view, issues and concerns, purpose, abilities, and significantly, a job. I've never experienced a person who contacted a part that didn't have a job/task/purpose.
Each part's job is essential at some level, or we wouldn't dedicate part of our minds to it. Some take care of behaviors essential for survival, like breathing. Some enhance our lives, like the part that can ride a bicycle. Some come into being because of trauma, like the part that gives us social or existential anxiety around certain kinds of people. But the parts aren't the breathing, riding the bike, or feeling anxious themselves. They are the neural networks that fire to make us breathe, ride well, and feel anxious.
We can distinguish ourselves—our conscious selves, or conscious minds—from any part simply by envisioning its existence. In doing that, we make the functions of the parts available for reflection, evaluation, and innovation. Since this happens because we dialog and negotiate and make decisions, we need ways to communicate effectively. Visualizing parts that are little homunculi, we get a sensational way to communicate; we enter our unconscious minds and just talk with the rest of us. If that fails, we communicate by physical sensations, emotions, visual imagery, or involuntary movements.
As Van has been finding out, talking with the parts of our minds is intense, revealing, surprising, and enjoyable. The right conversation can dramatically change things. The key is to know and use the intention--method--outcome formula.
An example:
I was a very angry young man and didn't know it. In my 30s I got in touch with my anger and was appalled by how much damage it caused. So, I lied down on the floor, did ten minutes of breathing and calming myself, created a working state, and asked:
"Would the part of me that causes me to be angry be willing to communicate with me in consciousness at this time?" (The wording was very precise in those days.)
Silence. No discernible sensation. After 2-3 minutes:
"I understand that the part of me that causes me to be angry is working on my behalf, doing something that I need. I appreciate and value that part. But I don't understand its function or its purpose. Would that part of me give me some sense of what he does for me by making me so angry at people?
Silence. Stillness.
"What would it take to get that part to communicate with me?
Breathing and calming my impatience and frustration down. Silence. Ready to give up.
"Would you be willing to show me something of yourself? (No begging, "Please" is not advised when establishing contact) I would be grateful if you would show yourself.
Suddenly, I got a picture of a face filling a doorway, a ferocious face like a semi-human wart hog with dark, wrinkly skin, fiery eyes, fur, fangs, whiskers, and a terrifying gaze. The face was huge, and covered the whole doorway.
"Holey s**t!" I exclaimed, "You are terrifying!" Tell me what you do for me."
"I make you angry."
"Yes, you do. Thank you. Please tell me what yo do for me by making me angry."
"I get you to scare people."
"And what do you get for me by scaring people?"
"I keep this door closed."
"What do you do for me by keeping this door closed?"
"I keep you from getting closer to people."
"And what does it do for me to not get closer to people?"
"It keeps you from getting hurt." (Bingo! I can get behind that!)
"Thank you! I appreciate you doing the job of keeping me from getting hurt. How, specifically, do you carry out your mission?"
"By keeping this door closed."
"To where does this door lead?"
"It's the door to your heart."
The next steps had to do with explaining that I appreciated the protection but that the method had drawbacks, then negotiating the willingness to change the method, delegating the job of finding three ways to keep me from getting hurt to "the creative parts of my mind," each of which would be as effective as the current method, but without the downside, and letting the process run by itself.
There were other details, but over the hours, days, and weeks that followed that experience, I could feel my anger and fear and the very need for such fierce protection dissipate. I saw myself change in ways that surprised me and gave me, and everyone around me, joy.
Tao
Thanks Tao for digging deeper. And, sorry for dropping out, I needed a bit of a break to let some of this soak in.
This is all helping me to better understand what my feelings are there for. It is helping me take the baby steps in letting her go and looking at how I ignored many feelings although I knew that they were occurring as well as the ones now. How I have rationalized without really being in touch, for countless reasons. I started to really look at what I perceived as fulfillment and conditioned myself to believe that I was being completed in some way & how I justified such self-sacrifice. Not only with her, but in my past, and with other aspects of my life. All of this helps and I even go back to what you or someone said weeks ago, and that resonates in a clearer way. I have been resisting realization and the dust is starting to settle. As it does, its becoming easier to look at things more objectively and not through what I perceived to be real. Looking back on instances, times, etc.. Has helped me realize what those suppressed feelings were trying to tell me. In some way, I needed her to make me feel complete even though the reciprocation was in a way minimal. I let myself continue believing something that, in fact was quite different. I ignored myself & my feelings in doing this for many reasons. Rejection, fear of lonliness, selfishness and in a way helped her manipulate things by doing that. Thanks again. Im not going anywhere. More soon.
A good thing to do sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Yeah, boye, you're unraveling some old myths. When you are ready, let us know what you have come to, arrived at, attained, realized, discovered, and otherwise grokked.Quote:
This is all helping me to better understand what my feelings are there for. It is helping me take the baby steps in letting her go and looking at how I ignored many feelings although I knew that they were occurring as well as the ones now. How I have rationalized without really being in touch, for countless reasons. I started to really look at what I perceived as fulfillment and conditioned myself to believe that I was being completed in some way & how I justified such self-sacrifice. Not only with her, but in my past, and with other aspects of my life. All of this helps and I even go back to what you or someone said weeks ago, and that resonates in a clearer way. I have been resisting realization and the dust is starting to settle. As it does, its becoming easier to look at things more objectively and not through what I perceived to be real. Looking back on instances, times, etc.. Has helped me realize what those suppressed feelings were trying to tell me. In some way, I needed her to make me feel complete even though the reciprocation was in a way minimal. I let myself continue believing something that, in fact was quite different. I ignored myself & my feelings in doing this for many reasons. Rejection, fear of lonliness, selfishness and in a way helped her manipulate things by doing that. Thanks again. Im not going anywhere. More soon.
Tao
I will for sure. Thanks for being there. The realizations & methods in getting me to a clearer place are starting come together in a way. Every day, there is something that helps me get there. I understand what "The Work" is about, I am grateful that I have been working from the start of all this. I guess for some of us only hurt & despair can help break our consciousness. Van.
Soon after I signed on to AMHD. I listened and valued all of the help.
Sometimes without truly realizing what people were saying. Your thoughts have guided me & in doing so I myself did research and have written myself notes (as I do in developing creative concepts in my work) Helps to break my thought pattern & dig.
For the past couple weeks, I at times had 20 pieces of paper scattered around in hopes to get some clarity, ease the pain, or try & go to sleep feeling that I was making some headway or sense.
As the days have gone by, the notes change, some I put away & maybe pull back in. Whatever. They have become more focused (as the ones in my work that have led to positive outcomes)
Some were cruel, some demanding & some serious listing.
Through all of this my new journal has been sitting on the table or in my bag ready to start venting in. I haven't touched it, feeling unready, overloaded considering my individual notes.
I am now taking a look at writing my story. From beginning to now, every person involved. Im making a list. And it brings back a lot. Ive done that before with the Artists Way & such, but seem to only look when I was confronted with something undesirable. Denial, hey?
The list is still going & when Im ready to write it down I will.
Its funny, a week or so ago, I cobbed this illustration together of my ex. Pretty ugly one of a black widow. Every claw had something meaningful impaled, blood & all. I even took my favorite photo of her, when we first started & put it on the spiders head.
Gave me pleasure at the time. Then I put it away, feeling weird that I created that picture. Ive pulled it out a couple more times, as I have my other notes. Even started a list of her good traits & bad. I was amazed at how unbalanced my list was & this was not out of anger.
Then, I began to think..
Draw that picture & make that list of who you are now.
Then the picture & list of who you want to be & how that affects others.
That is going to be my next bit of work.
Thanks for listening.
Ive been making commitments to myself to be healthy & getting myself together & at times, mustering up the energy to do so. Ive failed at times.
I think about perception vs reality. Nice advertising concept to sell Rolling Stone back in the day.
But, what's missing is the connection. Awareness, recognition and its relation.
Like Tao said early in these posts was. At a point who will ask yourself "What am I doing"
A question we should be asking ourselves constantly, right from the moment we awake.
Yup, Intention, Method, Outcome.
In the end, there is only awareness. We notice, with appreciation, the marvels of what is, what we do, what we think, believe, fear, suffer over, intend. If we just pay attention...Quote:
Originally Posted by vanheart
Keep sorting and organizing, Vanheart. You are close to the next gate.
"Then, I began to think..
Draw that picture & make that list of who you are now.
Then the picture & list of who you want to be & how that affects others.
"That is gonna be my next bit of work."
There you will find the gate's key. Include in your desired state list what it will be like to be that person. Try it on like a coat. Feel it. See it from the inside. Enjoy consciously growing.
Tao
Thanks, Tao. I will try. Although she remains in my thoughts, and experience setbacks, I feel like I am making some progress.
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:56 PM. |