Got told to 'spread it' Tal dear..Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
This is a clear case of different strokes for different folks! And I thought I heard it all,, fooled me!
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Got told to 'spread it' Tal dear..Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
This is a clear case of different strokes for different folks! And I thought I heard it all,, fooled me!
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I know Chery, as I read things here we have a guy that is either afraid to lose this lady, therefore willing to go along with whatever she says, or is caught up, and still reeling from her dumping him.
Its false hope that keeps him around, and prevents him from seeing his best course of action is to disappear and let her make up her own mind, WITHOUT HIS INFLUENCE. That would be honest, and less painful than running head first into a brick wall, and wondering why he has a headache.
Sorry Tab, that's no way to a females heart. While we're on the honest thing, You started your post at the end of August, and can you say your closer than you were then?
If you really want and honest examination of your feelings, and hers, do so without her playing kissy face, and phone tag, and remove yourself from the games. Get healthy, and enjoy your hot tamales.
Its not very complicated... yes, as long as she has feelings for the ex, I will remain the "unofficial bf"... meaning we are a couple, but technically single... I don't mind it, and she doesn't either, because before anything, we have become very good friends
IF/WHEN she gets over the ex (she sometimes tells me that she realizes her life is in dubai not ukraine, and wants to move on... and sometimes she doesn't reply his text messages), then we will fully be together...
However, there is a CHANCE that from now till she gets over her ex, I might fall for a hot tamale OR she meets someone else... then we should be honest with each other because it is no longer an issue of me vs. the ex.. it is smthg different now... it is unlikely it will happen, but a chance (since we both agreed that sometimes we want to go out alone and see friends)
I know you guys are right in a way.. never denied it... but I'm enjoying the ride... I love being with her and we enjoy each others company... why can't we just leave it at that and enjoy it for now.. lets just say we are very good friends that really like each other
If I didn't really like her it would have been easier... and if she didn't really like me, she would have cut it a long time ago.. think of it as an affair if you will... enjoy it while it lasts... no harm, no foul
Your right though.. didnt tell her I boned the tamale... but I did tell her about her.. and I told her where and with who and what happened when I went out without her... she did the same
There is no reason for me to tell her I fcuked someone else... it will do no good.. we weren't talking everyday and being a couple like now... it was still in the "grey" days ;)...
But it does make me wonder if she would go screw someone else and not tell me... hmmmm... trying not to think about it and enjoy life for now :)
Regards
Tab, your right, if your both happy with circumstances, why not take the ride, and see what happens. Your both single, all options are open.
tabbarat, I've been reading through some of these posts since you asked for my input. As far as I can, you're not looking for advice.
You're more or less chronicling your open relationship with this girl. Having done open relationships in the past, I can say that while they are not what most people view as the norm for relationships, if the people involved in the relationships are okay with the setup, then there's really nothing more to be discussed.
It's important to set out the ground rules and to discuss them explicitly so you each know what to expect from the other. While having protected sex with another girl is not her business, if you're having unprotected sex with another girl, I would tell her because it puts her at risk for transmission.
Other than that, I think you're doing just fine.
Thank you... I always appreciated the given advice, and never denied that on some levels it is the right advice!
But you said it right.. what I called an "affair", you called an "open relationship"... thats what it is exactly.. and we BOTH are OK with the setup... and both enjoy being with each other again
She is not fully ready to let go of her past, and I'm not fully ready to let go of her and just stick to the tamales
I loved what I had/have with her, so I'm going to stick it out for now
Like I said, lets just say we are very good friends that really ike each other
It was protected sex by the way... no glove, no love... dont be silly, put a condom on your willy, etc.. I know the drill :)
Take care, boys
I have to say this thread is actually quite interesting , looking forward to see how this all turns out.
Good Luck Tab :)
I know you have an agreement, of full disclosure, but as I read your post, there is no sex between you, just dating, and making out?
To be frank... ive know the girl since end of May... we date, we act like a couple, we make out, and lets say we get to 3rd base...
We tried to have sex a couple of times but she was hesitant because of her ex boyfriend back home... she said that he was the only one she had ever been with (he was her boyfriend since she was 15!).. so she needed time/take things slow... I didn't mind at first
Then we broke up for about a month and a half... now, we are back to making out, 3rd base, etc... but once in a while, the discussion of us having sex comes up
I have to note that there is a setback... I live with my brother, who is also her manager! So she prefers not to come to my house at night when he is there, and rather wait till he is not home or travelling... she is shy about coming over to my house and making out/having sex when her manager is at home! Hehehe
Anyway, I'm not in a rush to have sex with her... I really want to, and I'm starting to get sick of the "lets take it slow" bit, but FOR NOW, still not pressuring her and respecting her ex situation, and enjoying rounding the bases but not hitting a home run ;)
Maybe you guys now see why I like to go out with the boys alone sometime and pick up hot tamales! ;)
Anyway, we talked the heck out of why I decided to get back with her... now I would appreciate your inputs on the sex (or no sex) situation
Just personally, a female getting over an ex, is out of bounds to me, friends only, and no making out. To easy to be a friend zone rebound, as she gets over another, and chances are she will finally get the nerve to explore.
Another thing, unless it's a committed exclusive relationship, no way do we have rules like couples do, just no way.
What a single guy does is his business, and no one else's, and I am no ones unofficial boyfriend, nor will I act like it. AIN'T THAT MUCH LOVE IN THE WHOLE WORLD!!!! (Talaniman rule #7)
I never play kissy face with a friend, or make any such promises as to make her think she has anything to say about what I do. Trust me, its not worth the drama at all, and makes for more complications than its worth. (third base my..! )
That's also a good way to keep things in the perspective of reality, so you don't fall for any BS, females put you through.
What disturbed me about your whole post was her total control of this FRIENDS situation, without benefits, with an ex no less! No female can dump you and keep you around to screw her nut when she needs it, but I do see you being tired of the game.
That's when you'll stand for yourself, and let her make up her mind to sh1t, or get off the pot. As it is, she squats when she wants, and does what ever she wants, and I see no equality, or freedom, or more important, sharing, caring, or working together.
As long as you go along she may come up with anything to keep you close just in case.
Even open relationships are intimate, this is not. If you need a tamale to tide you over, she ain't doing her fair share, so I would never waste my time, until she figures it out. No Way.
Dating is cool, but after that she is on her own. Just me though, since you asked nicely.
1. After 400 posts, you tell us, you never had sex? Yeah, your 3rd base of my a5s.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
2. and what is ridiculous, I guess you already forgot why you came here in this forum, and what were your first questions to us. I suggest you reread your first post, my man, because Now you are not looking and not expecting for the same things as you did first.
3. She is not shy! She is just conservator about your whole "story" (although sometimes I think she doesn't even name it a "story"), and she doesn't want anyone to know about it. That will make her feel free and act as single if is needed.
4. Learn from your mistakes and be a real man!
In regard to the sex thing (only getting to 3rd), if this is really the only thing occurring, maybe that is why you are sticking it out because the sexual act with this girl is something of a conquest - a goal. If the fact that you have not had sex with her yet is true, what is going to happen once you do have sex with her? It is apparent that you have a sexual need because that is why you are hooking up with other girls, otherwise I would say that your somewhat gentleman actions for not demanding sex with this girl are admirable. However, you are hooking with other girls with no intention of continuing a close relationship with those other girls. I don't find that admirable. Then again, you are an adult who can choose to do what you want. However, do you REALLY know how those other girls are feeling when you have these hook up sessions? Yeah, they may say that this is all that they want, but let me tell you, they are probably not telling you the truth. Maybe they don't realize the psychological damage that they are doing to themselves when getting themselves in unfulfilling relationships That is their bad, but you also need to be in control of your actions because these hook ups cannot be that beneficial or fulfilling for you either. Otherwise, you would continue having some kind of relationships with these other girls.
Okay, I will get off my moral soap box.
I agree with Mom of 2 about the moral cost of the women you only sleep with and talk about as objects whose sole purpose is to satisfy your sexual need. (And it's a moral cost to both the women and you.)
I just read a letter from a woman who worked as a prostitute to put herself through college. At the time, she was fine with it, but 10 years later, she realizes that she was filled with unexpressed self loathing, which she now feels and cannot shake. It's easy to try to justify casual sex but in the end, it's empty. At least this person got a college education out of it. What are you getting?
If you haven't had sex with her, then you don't have a relationship with her. For me, by definition, a relationship starts at sex.
This definition will likely upset some people but after being in a sexless relationship for 3 years and then being in relationships with sex, I've learned that not having sex with the person you consider your partner damages whatever connection the two of you have with each other.
Tabbarat, you do not have a relationship with this girl and you treating her like your girlfriend isn't going to make her want to have sex with you. In my opinion, you are being used for your attention. In your situation, I would maybe date her but I wouldn't treat her like a girlfriend because for me to treat her like my girlfriend, she would have to act like my girlfriend and all my girlfriends have sex with me.
I must say that I completely disagree.Quote:
Yeah, they may say that this is all that they want, but let me tell you, they are probably not telling you the truth. Maybe they don't realize the psychological damage that they are doing to themselves when getting themselves in unfulfilling relationships That is their bad, but you also need to be in control of your actions because these hook ups cannot be that beneficial or fulfilling for you either. Otherwise, you would continue having some kind of relationships with these other girls.
If a girl is out looking for sex, then that is what she's looking for. Are girls who are only out looking to have sex and not be in a real relationship hurting themselves in some way? Maybe, but not necessarily.
Also, men and women view sex entirely differently. For most men that I've met, they go through a phase where they simply do not want a long-term relationship. I personally have never gone through that phase but many of the men I have counseled have. It's a natural male impulse to want to have a lot of sex with a lot of women and while most guys eventually come to the realization that it's unfulfilling, some guys choose to live their lives that way. I personally make no judgment on which is "right" or "better" because I respect the fact that they have made a choice to live their lives in the way that they think best. If the feel that they're being true to themselves, then I have no problem with whatever choice they make.
I personally do not agree with your conclusions in this post. You have come to the conclusion that the feelings of self-loathing that she now feels is a result of her days spent working in the sex trade. However, my own experience suggests that women who are receptive to such an idea already have issues of their own or else they would not enter into such work to begin with. While it is possible that this woman entered into such work because she absolutely had no other choice and was really desperate and suffered psychological damage as a result of her work as a prostitute, the alternative of her already having psychological damage due to upbringing and other experiences before entering into the sex trade is much more probable.Quote:
I just read a letter from a woman who worked as a prostitute to put herself through college. At the time, she was fine with it, but 10 years later, she realizes that she was filled with unexpressed self loathing, which she now feels and cannot shake. It's easy to try to justify casual sex but in the end, it's empty. At least this person got a college education out of it. What are you getting?
En Ken,
You are entitled to your opinion. Although I think you have a very narrow view of sex--as if it's a payment that women make to men for being a good boyfriend (lol). But it's bad form here to give someone a reddie (disagree) just for stating their opinion. Reserve disagrees for when someone gives factually incorrect information and use the "disagree" sparingly to really get someone's attention.
My opinion is by defnition correct; it's what I believe. If I said that lung cancer could be cured with raisins, you'd have reason to give me a reddie.
Asking,
I'm not sure which part of my post implied this, but in some sense, that's correct. A woman has sex with a man because she finds him attractive and desirable to some degree. If he's a good boyfriend then she'll likely have sex with him because she finds him to be an good boyfriend for her. It's not a payment, but an expression of her attraction for him. For it to be a payment, she'd have to be getting something in return for the sex and if the guy is just pretending to be the type of man that is a good boyfriend, then he's fraud and not really that good a boyfriend.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
Also, to be fair, I would not describe my view of sex as any more narrow than believing that sex should always be emotionally meaningful.
For the record, I do believe that sex can be an incredibly beautiful and meaningful act but sometimes it's just two people having a fun night together.
I see. I did not realize that that was the norm around here. It seemed only appropriate that if people are hitting the "Agree" button for opinions that it'd be fine to hit "Disagree" for opinions as well so I'm sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
I'm curious, does it make a difference if I speak from experience than if I speak from opinion? Because I know several people who are involved in the sex trade and both my mentor and a friend of mine are extremely close with some people in the sex trade so from experience and (albeit) 3rd hand information, I know your opinion is somewhat unlikely to occur.
Again, I did not realize that hitting disagree was a bit of a No-no here. Sorry.
EK, Apology accepted.
I do continue to disagree with the substance of your remarks--almost entirely!
Opinions are still opinions even if they derive from anecdotal experience--as most opinions do. My opinion is that casual sex with strangers is not good for the soul. I don't think I need to explain or justify that opinion. It's a rather common one. It doesn't mean that I think every sex act is fraught with emotional content as you implied I was saying.
My comment about the prostitute was simply a digression that happened to occur to me. Whether you consider it likely or not is reasonably immaterial to my opinion (stated above). We know it happened at least once.
As for the letter writer herself, she stated that her feelings resulted from her work. You incorrectly said that was my conclusion, implying that it was only my interpretation of something she said. But I was reporting her own statement. I have no reason to think that she was wrong about her own experience, or that you know more about what she experienced than she did herself.
I have no friends in the prostitution industry and would not venture any opinion about what is usual there or how most women feel while doing it, or later on, or whether they all have emotional or personality problems before they enter the trade as you seem to suggest or develop them as a consequence of the work or even if prostitutes as a group have any particular "issues." I respectfully acknowledge your greater experience in buying sex, if that is what you are alluding to in citing your experience.
Welcome to AMHD!
That is not what I was alluding to. I have never paid for sex in my life and if you were saying this to me in person I would find it extremely insulting. However, because this is an online board, I'm going to simply choose to let the matter slide. This time.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
And now back to the thread at hand.
I think they are playing games with each other for their own reasons, but sex is not part of the equations, but for his part, making out is the promise of more, and I really feel she uses that as a lure to keep him close, just in case, but is also not into him in a healthy way.
Sorry to offend you. You strongly advocated casual sex and cited superior experience and knowledge of prostitutes, so I assumed that was what you meant by experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by EN Ken
If you are offended, and again I apologize, then I guess you disapprove of prostitution? Let me know if that's also incorrect.
As for letting things slide, if you confront me by telling me my values are wrong and/or stereotype all women with offensive generalizations, I'm likely to challenge your arguments. :) Don't take it personally.
OK.. so let me get this straight.. ur saying that I'm ONLY staying with her in hopes of having sex with her, AND that she is keeping sex from me to keep me close?
That is too deep and intense...
I agree with you that I want to have sex with this girl, but not to claim a prize, but because I prefer having sex with a girl I care about than a tamale I meet at a club...
I am fulfilling my sexual needs by the tamales, and I do want to have sex with my ex, but it is NOT the reason I'm staying...
She can even tell me "i'll never sleep with u", but I'll STILL stay in the picture UNTIL SHE FULLY GETS BACK WITH HER EX OF 10YRS OR ONE OF US GETS SICK OF THE SITUATION
Like I said, we are good friends who really like each other... I would prefer to sleep with her, but if she is still not ready than I'm not just going to quit because of it... I enjoy her company and so does she... and she knows that by me going out and being technically single that I can meet someone else.. what she wants to do with that information is her choice
For now, I'm enjoying being a couple with my ex AND having guilt free sex sometimes... she can easily end this by letting go of her past (ex of 10yrs)
As for her using sex to keep me in the picture... she knows about my past and how much I love to party and meet women... she knows that if I only wanted to sleep with her, I wold have stopped trying to get her back... she knows its more than just a physical thing for me... so she doesn't need to use sex as a game
She told me by the way... she has only had sex with her boyfriend of 10yrs.. so to her sex now is with someone you really love and are meant to spend your life with... she wpuld never have sex "in the heat of the moment"... and she would feel like if she has sex with me, it means that she has cut her past off completely
What she means is that.. the feelings for me are there.. we get along, we never fight, attraction, etc... the whole package is there EXCEPT sex... her having sex with me would mean she is completely over her ex and moved on... apparently she is not ready for that
Of course I don't like it.. but just telling you what she said
Yes, I did advocate casual sex, but I never advocated casual sex over any other type of sex. I personally have no problems with two consenting adults engaging in sex as long as the circumstances do not break the law.Quote:
Sorry to offend you. You strongly advocated casual sex and cited superior experience and knowledge of prostitutes, so I assumed that was what you meant by experience.
When I stated that I had experience, I was referring to the fact that I have known and interacted with people involved in the sex trade such as adult film stars, exotic dancers, escorts, etc. They were simply people that I hung out with and got to know as people.
A prostitute is a consenting adult who wishes to engage in sex for money. I will not judge a person the moral code of someone else. I WILL judge that person on THEIR moral code. If she tells me that prostitution is a greatest thing and she's making tons of money so it's okay to do, but she actually hates it and is making next to nothing, then I will most definitely criticize her.Quote:
I guess you disapprove of prostitution? Let me know if that's also incorrect.
I neither approve nor disapprove of it. I've never gone to a prostitute and don't plan on ever doing so. Simply because I think casual sex is okay doesn't mean that I aim to engage in having sex casually. It is true that I have had sex casually but it was not my aim but rather the circumstances of the situation forced us to be apart. I only have sex with women I plan on seeing again and building some sort of relationship with.
That is a possibility, but not the only one.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
I am saying that the way a woman wants attention is the way a man wants sex. For a woman, having the attention of a man or men is as important to her as sex is for a man. In this situation, she's getting all the attention she wants and not only that, she's getting the very specialized attention of being your girlfriend.
She is getting all of her needs met in the relationship, but you are not.
Good. If you are okay with the situation then so am I. The only thing I'm going to say is that I would not willingly put myself in a situation like that because I know I could not deal with it, but if you're fine with it then enjoy.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
Very good. If she knows that then that's a good thing and makes me more likely to have sex with you in the near future.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
If you are serious about being with this girl, then acceptance is a good choice to make. The way you've restated the situation makes it sound like that sex is an aspect of her sexuality that requires certain emotions to be in place before it can happen. It sounds as though this is something that will require time and if you are willing to wait and continue the relationship that you have with her then she may eventually choose to have sex with you.
Personally, I would make it known in some way that you are having sex with other women and that is how you're coping with her not having sex with you. You are having your sexual needs met outside of the relationship and that is one of the reasons that you're willing to put up with the lack of sex inside the relationship. But that's just what I would do because I would personally want all my needs to be met in my primary relationship.
That's why he keeps that to himself because he knows it will be all over with.Quote:
Personally, I would make it known in some way that you are having sex with other women and that is how you're coping with her not having sex with you.
I see it the same way.Quote:
You are having your sexual needs met outside of the relationship and that is one of the reasons that you're willing to put up with the lack of sex inside the relationship.
They are kissy face friends, with rules.Quote:
But that's just what I would do because I would personally want all my needs to be met in my primary relationship.
Either way they both are playing a game, (of deceit, deception, and control) instead of doing what healthy relationships do, communicate honestly, and work together.
Well healthy in this context is relative.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
The dynamic of this particular relationship requires a very different set of behaviours than those of a long-term relationship. The behaviours for this type of relationship are indeed unhealthy... for a long-term relationship. If at some point these two were to get into a more serious and committed relationship, then yes some things would have to change, but for the moment, how they're handling things does work.
I have been in a relationship like this with this particular dynamic and this is simply the only way to keep it going until something changes. I personally view maintaining this type of dynamic too much work so I avoid it.
I would not say this relationship dynamic is unhealthy given the context that they're not yet committed, but if they were to become committed this dynamic would be extremely unhealthy and would have very little long-term potential unless one or both of the people involved were emotionally damaged in some way.
EN KEN, you are my new relationship guru! Hehehe
1) nothing wrong with casual sex given circumstances.. sometimes things happen... but of course I prefer having sex with a girl I want to have a relationship with... it makes the sex better
2) how about you give me some of those "adult film stars" contacts ;)
3) I really like the "for a women attention is like sex for a man"... that is very true... I want to have sex with her, but her priority is keeping me in the picture until she is ready to have sex with me... interesting... at least I realize it :)
but the question here is: do i take away attention, just like she is taking away sex?
I do sometimes play hard to get, tell her I'm out with friends, go to night clubs without her, make her jealous, tell her I'm busy, cut conversations short... u know, the usual... we do see each other quite a lot, talk almost everyday and act like a couple when we are together, but I always have it in the back of my head that I can't let her have her cake and eat it too
As for telling her I'm having sex... I wouldn't do that... talaniman is right... dont want to risk losing her... what I do is: I) sometimes I have the real sexual flirting, try to get her hot, sometimes I say "u know, its ok if u dont want to have sex...ur probably afraid of how good its going to be...or its ok...take time to practice, etc..".. the occasional phone sex, etc... ii) I tell her that in clubs I get hit on, meet girls etc, tell her about some of the tamales, but never go into details
What are your suggestions?
4) I'm fine with the situation.. I don't like it... but I'm OK with it... I would have course prefer to be just us... but this is fine as well
But let me tell you when I will quit and cut contact: I) if I meet someone else I really like, ii) she starts liking/seeing someone else other than her ex of 10yrs, iii) she tells me that she has decided she only wants to concetrate on getting back with her ex of 10yrs and wants me to leave her alone
5) yeah, she knows I genuinely care about her and am not only after a physical thing... to her sex has to be emotional... especially of she is going to do it with someone else/new after only doing ot with one person for 10yrs!
Her knowing that I really care about her and willing to wait, and me saying that sometimes, will hopefully make her change her mind soon
By the way, talaniman is right.. so far we are kissy face friends with rules :)
But until then ("smthg changes"), I'm enjoying the ride (since there is no long term commitment)
Another question: when you say "until smthg changes"... what do you mean exactly? Any personal examples? Or the same that I listed above
Thanks, take care
Well, yes a relationship does make the sex better but that's still not the point of a relationship. If you have enough casual sex, you find that, yes it is fulfilling, but only up to a point. Once you hit that point, all the sex in the world will still make you feel as though you are unfulfilled because that void cannot be filled by more sex. It needs to be filled through a meaningful emotional connection that only a relationship can bring.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
It's not really a matter of do you, it's a matter of why would you.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
You don't simply do it because she's not having sex with you. Withdrawing attention has to been seen as a way of communicating your displeasure with the situation. It's simply a way for you to communicate the fact that you don't like how things are going.
Therefore, in this context, I would say no, you do not withdraw your attention. As far as I can tell, you seem perfectly content with the situation. You have said that you would rather be having sex with her, but you would stay with her regardless of whether she does so there's no reason to be communicating displeasure because you feel the situation is great as it is.
I guess I should have been clearer when I said you should tell her that you're having sex. I did not actually mean to say "Hey babe, I'm having sex with girls I pick up at clubs." That's incredibly bad form and you will quickly find yourself alone in many situations (although not all). What I would say is something closer to ii. I would say something like "I had a really good time the other night with this girl I met at this club. She was a really cool girl." And leave it at that. You are right in never going into the details because you shouldn't be.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
The reason you are doing this is to communicate that you are a sexual being and that your definition of an ideal lifestyle is one that includes sex and that because you're still getting sex elsewhere, you are open to the idea of being with her.
Okay, now you're telling me something different.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
What I said about attention earlier in this post would hold true if you were simply willing to settle for things exactly as they are now. However, it seems that you are not. It sounds like you actually want to meet a great girl and be in the type of relationship that you want to already be having with this original girl.
In that situation, the rules are slightly different.
If you are actively looking for a girl to date seriously, then you do need to limit the amount of attention and time that is devoted to this girl. You cut back so that you can actually have time to date other girls. So yes, you do withhold some attention, but with a purpose. It's to communicate that you like her, but aren't completely satisfied with the situation so you're also actively pursuing other relationships. You should do this somewhat gradually. If you're seeing her 4 times a week, cut back to 3 for a couple of weeks and then cut back to 2. In my opinion, if you're not monogamous with a girl and you're seeing her more than 2 times a week, then you're communicating that you want to be monogamous with her. If you're in an open relationship with a girl, the most you should be seeing her is twice a week.
At some point, it's likely that she'll comment on the fact that you're seeing each other less and if she questions you on it, you tell her that "Well, I've just gotten busy hanging out with some other people." You do not be any more detailed than that. She will very quickly realize that she needs to be doing more to get more time from you and that may be the push that gets her to realize she needs to make a decision between you and this ex boyfriend of hers.
Waiting is really the only way to go. If you're only the 2nd guy she's every been interested in, then her sexual inexperience is something you need to handle. You simply have to move at her pace and let things run their course.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
By "something changes" I mean that some level of commitment is reached. Until the two of you decide that yes, you are going to be an official couple and there's not going to be anyone else, the current dynamic is the dynamic that must be maintained until that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
For example, when I personally start dating a girl, until we sit down and decide that we are going to be exclusive and we're going to be in a committed, exclusive relationship, she's free to date whomever she wants and I am free to do the same. The level of seriousness has to be built up over time until we get to the point where we both feel that it's serious enough for us to do that. However, once that agreement is explicit, the dynamic of the relationship has to change. You are now officially boyfriend and girlfriend and tactics like the ones in this post simply aren't conducive to the relationship. Saying things like "Oh I hung out with this really cool girl the other night" does not build the relationship, it drives a wedge in the relationship. A new level of openness must be reached and you must be willing to share a larger part of yourself and your life to her. (Notice that I did not say a new level of honesty, because I believe in always being honest but I do not believe that I have to reveal everything about myself or my life all the time.)
As a side note to everyone else other than tabbarat reading this, I realize that this all sounds manipulative and feels like a huge game is being played but that is the nature of this type of relationship. An open relationship requires a knowledge of these types of dynamics and how to structure the entire situation. I am in no way advocating this type of relationship over other types of relationships. I am simply providing advice from what I have learned from my mentor and from my own personal experience.
As a second side note to tabbarat, my mentor actually has a CD product on open relationships. If you are interested, message me privately and I will provide you with the details.
Hope that helps.
I think she has not got over her past and may she don't want to.. I think it will be good you just say her goodbye... and be good friends because you never know about the future
Just me, leaving her alone will let her get over the ex, at her own pace, and less drama. While you are still there meeting her needs, and being her crutch, she doesn't have any motives for change or moving forward.
This is NOT an open relationship, there is no sex, so it's a kissy face friendship, and nothing more. You can justify both your behavior any way you want, but the bottom line is, your not happy and fulfilled, your waiting on the chance to get what you want, but don't care about what she want, what she needs, or how to give it to her.
That's not love or caring, and is built on dependence, lies, deceit, and games and manipulations.
Don't let the kissy face part lead you to any other conclusion, other than your using each other for your own needs, and still falling short.
Your both afraid to let go, and stand on your own, but for sure it's the right thing for you both to do, for the long run. In my opinion!
In the past few days, there has been a several epic posts of 400 words or more that I never read, so I may be repeating something that was already stated.
tabbarat, since you admitted that you and this woman never had sex and the reason she broke up with her ex-boyfriend is because she moved to Dubai and left his sorry a$$ in Ukraine, it is now clear she has you on a leash (the relationship is on her terms) and is using you as an emotional support beam until she gets back with her ex-boyfriend. She's using you; "staying in the picture" won't do anything besides destroy your pride. Put the cap on this one.
I know you don't want to hear this and you'll probably rip me to shreds.
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Man what is wrong with you? Hanging around this long for something that is not going to happen. She got rid of the other guy you say, yet you're still no closer to the winners circle as you were when he was around. What are you waiting for?
1) ENKEN: all true and good as usual... since it is an open relationship/no commitment/kissy face friends (as talaniman calls it), the standard relationship rules don't apply to us
I am not actively seeking other girls for a relationship.. I still really like my ex and enjoy being with her... she is fulfilling my emotional needs...
However, what I am actively looking for is trying to enjoy the "technically still single" lifestyle/having sex with tamales; since I thus far, am not satisfied physically
As soon as I am satisfied in all ways, I will be ready to commit fully to her only
Right now, we both "like"/accept the situation because she isn't ready to fully give up her past; and since she is not ready to have sex, I'm still not fully ready to give up my single life...
So what we ended up with is an open relationship/relationship with no definite commitment
For now, enjoying the ride until smthg changes
2) TALANIMAN, ROME, SLAPSHOT: no, I'm not going to rip you to shreds :)... I appreciate all views and posts
But you have to read/catch up... the relationship is actually on both our terms... as talaniman said, we are both not ready to let go
She could easily tell me that she wants to concentrate on her ex, tell me that she wants to see me less, call me less, not flirt back etc; and I could easily do the same
Like I said before, we are good friends who really like each other
As for what am I waiting for? 2 things: hving sex with her, and her getting over her past and being with me exclusively
But until then, I'm enjoying being fulfilled emotionally by her, and physically by tamales
Never said I prefer it this way... and never said that I sometimes don't get bored/sick of the situation
But for now, enjoying the ride
Take care all
No, she is not. If she were fulfilling your emotional needs, then you would be less inclined to look to have other women in your life. Emotional need #8 of men is SEX. If a woman does not have sex with you, then she is not fulfilling this emotional need and it thus becomes near impossible (unless under very specific circumstances) for a man to be happily faithful to a woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
And you're not satisfied because she is not satisfying your emotional need for sex.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
And again, if you're okay with the situation, then this thread is more a journal recording your status with this woman than about advice.
EK, You have absolutely no way to know that all her needs are being met. That's a huge leap of faith. At the very least, she's not getting sex, yet nothing T has said suggests that she has no interest in sex. Therefore, she is not getting her sexual needs met in her relationship with T. Apparently, something about the relationship makes her hesitate. Maybe there are other needs that are not getting met. Who knows? That seems more likely than that she has a sexual appetite and yet is perfectly happy in never consummating it her relationship with T.Quote:
She is getting all of her needs met in the relationship, but you are not.
Women like sex too, so I'm puzzled by your implicit assumption that sex is a need only for T, but not his girlfriend.
Of course women have a sexual appetite too... and I'm waiting for the moment when all the hormones are rushing and she is willing to do it ;)
As for what is making her hesitate... she sees that her having sex with me completes the "cycle", meaning that now we would fully be a couple... we would have the emotional and physical... her having sex with me would be cutting the last "umbilical cord" to her past... for now, she is not ready
I realize this, I'm OK with it (for now), and that is why I keep tamales on the side until smthg changes
Hmmmm, after getting freshly getting out of a 10 year relationship, what would motivate someone to just jump into another one with the next guy who comes along? Is that a realistic expectation on your part?? Can you imagine her thinking? Do you think she can heal and move ahead with you there? You say there is no pressure from you, but I bet there is always your influence.
I have nothing against an open relationship, just realize what the conflict is. You both has different agendas. You may have your tamales, while you wait for what you want, and she has you, while she figures out what she wants.
Look not knocking you at all, but just curious how long you ride this roller coaster?
I don't even think your have an open relationship, right now if anything, your just friends that like each other that hang up and make out once in a while. Then your both try to make each other jealous.
An open relationship is when two people, not one, agrees to see other people while maintaining some type of relatuonship. They have open communication and some of people that are in this situation have sit down and have rules of about what is aceptable and what isn't.
An .
Talanimans Rule- Leave females with ex problems alone, and enjoy someone without the baggage.
Less confusion, and more fun.
Sorry dude, I don't have the patience to read novel posts. Besides, the posts I have read pertaining to this thread are consistently redundant; if you've read one you've read them all.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
The relationship is on your terms as well? That's a hard sale. If this were true, you wouldn't have posted here asking for advice in the first place. You're failing to see the reality of the situation because you're rationalizing, you have a self-beneficial answer for every curve ball this chick throws at you.
This is a possibility and I would believe this, but you also said...Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
Since you're waiting for her, I don't believe you would cut her off as easily as you say you can (the quote before the one above). She wants you to wait for her and you confessed that you'll gladly do that; so again I say, she has you on a leash.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
No woman alive finds behavior such as this attractive. Women don't want to date a man that's is at her beckoning call, like a dog. Right now, in her mind, she's comparing you to her ex-boyfriend, whom she admittedly still loves, and he'll win. This recently happened to me and my girl's ex-boyfriend is a chump; 26 years-old and lives with his parents, owes her thousands of dollars and has several drug addictions.
The point is, the personality of the ex-boyfriend doesn't matter, it's the familiarity and comfort that she has with him that matters, hence, he'll always be the good-guy although he may, in fact, be a scum-bag. Nothing but being alone and time will change that.
There's a paradox. You're receiving emotional fulfillment through being with her and yet, on occasion, you get bored and even sick of this ordeal.Quote:
Originally Posted by tabbarat
I know that regardless of what I say you'll come back with an answer that you find suitable. I'm just rehashing stuff that was all said before anyway. I just needed to kill some time.
I'm sticking around just to find out how it all ends, hopefully before I die
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