I think he will not take it well when he knows for sure it's over. Something tells me you need someone with you!Quote:
Originally Posted by eveamee09
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I think he will not take it well when he knows for sure it's over. Something tells me you need someone with you!Quote:
Originally Posted by eveamee09
I will do this! I will think positively and tell myself that I can do it! I doubt myself too much I think, it's bad because I know what I want and I know I can do it. I will do it! And I also did wonder that.. about whether he truly loved me or not... it definitely was not all-encompassing love as clearly he wouldn't accept me for myself. I know I deserve better! Marianne I'm going to read the rest of your files you sent me later on tonight. I am going to read them and also make a long list of all the bad things he's done and reasons I am breaking up with him, and remind myself over and over again that this is the right thing to do! I'll also go over some past messages in this thread that yourself and Kit have written too. Thanks a lot, speak later xQuote:
Originally Posted by positiveparent
Im re-posting the following so that Katie can re-read it and hopefully put some of it to use for when you meet with the Ex tomorrow and Good Luck, I know you can do it and that you're doing as you are because you know you're worth more.
Ending the Relationship
Remembering that "The Loser" doesn't accept responsibility, responds with anger to criticism, and is prone to panic detachment reactions - ending the relationship continues the same theme as the detachment.
- Explain that you are emotionally numb, confused, and burned out. You can't feel anything for anybody and you want to end the relationship almost for his or her benefit. Remind them that they've probably noticed something is wrong and that you need time to sort out your feelings and fix whatever is wrong with you. As disgusting as it may seem, you may have to use a theme of "I'm not right for anyone at this point in my life." If "The Loser" can blame the end on you, as they would if they ended the relationship anyway, they will depart faster.
- If "The Loser" panics, you'll receive a shower of phone calls, letters, notes on your car, etc. React to each in the same manner - a boring thanks. If you overreact or give in, you've lost control again.
- Focus on your need for time away from the situation. Don't agree to the many negotiations that will be offered - dating less frequently, dating only once a week, taking a break for only a week, going to counseling together, etc. As long as "The Loser" has contact with you they feel there is a chance to manipulate you.
- "The Loser" will focus on making you feel guilty. In each phone contact you'll hear how much you are loved, how much was done for you, and how much they have sacrificed for you. At the same time, you'll hear about what a bum you are for leading them on, not giving them an opportunity to fix things, and embarrassing them by ending the relationship.
- Don't try to make them understand how you feel - it won't happen. "The Loser" only is concerned with how they feel - your feelings are irrelevant. You will be wasting your time trying to make them understand and they will see the discussions as an opportunity to make you feel more guilty and manipulate you.
- Don't fall for sudden changes in behavior or promises of marriage, trips, gifts, etc. By this time you have already seen how "The Loser" is normally and naturally. While anyone can change for a short period of time, they always return to their normal behavior once the crisis is over.
- Seek professional counseling for yourself or the support of others during this time. You will need encouragement and guidance. Keep in mind, if "The Loser" finds out you are seeking help they will criticize the counseling, the therapist, or the effort.
- Don't use terms like "someday", "maybe", or "in the future". When "The Loser" hears such possibilities, they think you are weakening and will increase their pressure.
- Imagine a dead slot machine. If we are in Las Vegas at a slot machine and pull the handle ten times and nothing happens - we move on to another machine. However, if on the tenth time the slot machine pays us even a little, we keep pulling the handle - thinking the jackpot is on the way.
If we are very stern and stable about the decision to end the relationship over many days, then suddenly offer a possibility or hope for reconciliation - we've given a little pay and the pressure will continue.
Never change your position - always say the same thing. "The Loser" will stop playing a machine that doesn't pay off and quickly move to another.
Follow-up Protection
"The Loser" never sees their responsibility or involvement in the difficulties in the relationship. From a psychological standpoint, "The Loser" has lived and behaved in this manner most of their life, clearly all of their adult life.
As they really don't see themselves at fault or as an individual with a problem, "The Loser" tends to think that the girlfriend or boyfriend is simply going through a phase - their partner (victim) might be temporarily mixed up or confused, they might be listening to the wrong people, or they might be angry about something and will get over it soon.
"The Loser" rarely detaches completely and will often try to continue contact with the partner even after the relationship is terminated.
During the Follow-up Protection period, some guidelines are:
- Never change your original position. It's over permanently! Don't talk about possible changes in your position in the future. You might think that will calm "The Loser" but it only tells them that the possibilities still exist and only a little more pressure is needed to return to the relationship.
- Don't agree to meetings or reunions to discuss old times. For "The Loser", discussing old times is actually a way to upset you, put you off guard, and use the guilt to hook you again.
- Don't offer details about your new life or relationships. Assure him that both his life and your life are now private and that you hope they are happy.
- If you start feeling guilty during a phone call, get off the phone fast. More people return to bad marriages and relationships due to guilt than anything else. If you listen to those phone calls, as though taping them, you'll find "The Loser" spends most of the call trying to make you feel guilty.
- In any contact with the ex "Loser", provide only a status report, much like you'd provide to your Aunt Gladys. For example: "I'm still working hard and not getting any better at tennis. That's about it."
- When "The Loser" tells you how difficult the breakup has been, share with him some general thoughts about breaking-up and how finding the right person is difficult.
While "The Loser" wants to focus on your relationship, talk in terms of Ann Landers - "Well, breaking up is hard on anyone. Dating is tough in these times. I'm sure we'll eventually find someone that's right for both of us." Remember - nothing personal!
- Keep all contact short and sweet - the shorter the better. As far as "The Loser" is concerned, you're always on your way somewhere, there's something in the microwave, or your mother is walking up the steps to your home.
Wish "The Loser" well but always with the same tone of voice that you might offer to someone you have just talked to at the grocery store. For phone conversations, electronic companies make a handy gadget that produces about twenty sounds - a doorbell, an oven or microwave alarm, a knock on the door, etc. That little device is handy to use on the phone - the microwave dinner just came out or someone is at the door.
Do whatever you have to do to keep the conversation short - and not personal.
Summary
In all of our relationships throughout life, we will meet a variety of individuals with many different personalities. Some are a joy to have in our life and some provide us with life-long love and security. Others we meet pose some risk to us and our future due to their personality and attitudes.
Both in medicine and mental health - the key to health is the early identification and treatment of problems - before they reach the point that they are beyond treatment. In years of psychotherapy and counseling practice, treating the victims of "The Loser", patterns of attitude and behavior emerge in "The Loser" that can now be listed and identified in the hopes of providing early identification and warning.
When those signs and indicators surface and the pattern is identified, we must move quickly to get away from the situation.
Continuing a relationship with "The Loser" will result in a relationship that involves intimidation, fear, angry outbursts, paranoid control, and a total loss of your self-esteem and self-confidence.
If you have been involved in a long-term relationship with "The Loser", after you successfully escape you may notice that you have sustained some psychological damage that will require professional repair. In many cases, the stress has been so severe that you may have a stress-produced depression.
You may have severe damage to your self-confidence/self-esteem or to your feelings about the opposite sex or relationships. Psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, and counselors are available in your community to assist and guide you as you recover from your damaging relationship with "The Loser".
Credit: This handout was written by Joseph M. Carver, Ph.D., a Clinical Psychologist. It is provided as a public service and can be reproduced as needed. Dr. Carver is in private practice in Southern Ohio and is affiliated with three regional hospitals.
Joseph M. Carver, Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist
Website: Joseph M Carver, Ph.D. - Clinical Psychologist
I've just been reading over your last post and the files you sent me with my Mum. We have been talking about them a lot (with regards to my relationship AND her relationship!) and we have both agreed that no matter what, people just don't change. I found myself earlier attempting to convince myself that my boyfriend might change, he might realise how awful he's been and that I deserve to be my own person and be treated better.. etc etc... but then I read the very important quote from above that I will always think of at these doubtful times:
"Don't fall for sudden changes in behavior or promises of marriage, trips, gifts, etc. By this time you have already seen how "The Loser" is normally and naturally. While anyone can change for a short period of time, they always return to their normal behavior once the crisis is over."
That is so true and so wise, and is what has to be repeated over and over again! Because, I know him. I have been there when he's been his normal self. I have been there when he's shouted at me, manipulated me, told me what to do, told me what was bad about myself and what I should be like. And I know it's not good, or how I want to be treated. I also know that he will probably treat me wonderfully for a few weeks, maybe months, possibly even a year, but once he feels like he's "got" me again, even if that's not until we're married, the worry of whether I would leave him probably wouldn't be there anymore and he would just revert back to his old ways.
Thank you, this is such an important message, and has also helped my Mum a bit in her relationship too! Her husband's lovely but can be rather controlling at times (fits a few of the descriptions in the "control freak" file you sent me) so she's more aware of this now. Perhaps we should post the "control freak" file on here Marianne, it might help loads of other women too!
Once again I cannot thank you enough. I hope your days have been good. How are you as well, Kit?
Remember... we're here... take a friend with you tomorrow... please!Quote:
Originally Posted by eveamee09
Thanks for your comments Katie and Im pleased you're reading the files and even sharing them with your Mum, I am sure you'll be just fine torrow and as you know Ill be with you in spirit and mind. You can do it you will do it.
Anyway here is the file named THE CONTROL FREAK I hope it is useful in helping others in abusive relationships.
THE CONTROL FREAK
In the beginning these relationships are wonderful - you think you finally met your dream person! But, the relationship deteriorates over time. The deterioration can occur over a few months or may take years.
This pattern is opposite from the progression in a "normal" relationship, where people start slowly and grow to trust and love each other more over time.
Insecure or shy people are most vulnerable to abusive partners.
Controlling people are often expert pursuers. They are very big on charm, compliments, gifts, etc. They make you feel as though you are the most special person in the world. During this stage, they really think you are the most special person in the world. They can't be with you enough, can't go out of their way for you enough... until you're hooked. Then the party starts.
The relationship is an emotional roller roaster. There is little peace. Just when things seem to be going well, the angry person somehow manages to pick a fight.
The angry person usually doesn't take responsibility for creating the problem. Somehow, the partner is blamed, or is provoked to lose their temper
When the angry person is bad, they are very, very bad. When they are good, they are very, very good. (They have to be - to make up for all their mis-behavior!)
The angry person pursues when you have pulled back emotionally or are fed up with them.
The angry person does not allow their partner to be angry with them. If you are angry at them, they get even angrier with you.
Emotional trust and comeradie are lacking. The angry person does not know how to trust and the victim has no basis to trust.
"Male role control works by physically, verbally, or emotionally destroying your partner's physical and emotional integrity so that she will be afraid to be herself, will control herself, and therefore be available to be controlled by YOU."
Emotionally controlling behavior is implemented through verbal abuse, body language, and deprivation (withholding). These behaviors are "the way the abuser treats his partner"
Abuse is always about CONTROL. Whether it is verbal abuse, emotional abuse, or physical abuse, IT IS ABOUT CONTROLLING YOUR PARTNER, subtly or openly.
Check yourself out with these controlling behaviors or words:CONTROLLING HER TIME: The abuser controls his partner's time by making her wait. He will say he is ready to talk, but will continue doing something else while his partner waits. He will tell her he is ready to go to bed, then make her wait. If she complains of having to wait, he will blame her for "not having enough patience", "I have to wait on you too", or "Do you expect me just to drop everything!"-- thereby blaming her for HIS making her wait.
This also commonly occurs when the abuser is called to a meal, family activity, or that everyone else is ready to leave. If the partner does something while waiting, the abuser will then angrily proclaim that "HE has been waiting on HER". A subtle way of controlling a partner's time is to leave most, if not all, of the work for her to do-then complaining about anything she does for herself, or what she does not get done.
Other examples are procrastinating promised work (especially what she is counting on), "watching just one more program" or "playing one more game" (that goes on and on and on), refusing to give a simple and direct answer to concrete and direct questions (Are you going to do this or that. "We'll have to wait and see, I suppose, maybe, what do You think, I didn't know I was supposed to...why don't you figure it out!")
The abuser may also control his partner's time by grandstanding. If she tells him she is unhappy about an incident, he will deny it happened, discount her feelings, or accuse her of trying to start a fight. He might also proclaim that "you're causing the problem by bringing it up," "no one else notices," "everyone else does, so why can't I,"
Diverting, countering, blocking, "forgetting," forcing her to explain, making her repeat because the abuser was not listening or paying attention, and "prove it" are also common ways to control the partner's time and energy. It is rare that an abuser will be willing to discuss or negotiate HIS plan-to do so would be giving up control. This type of control is two-fold: Control her time in some way, any way, then blame HER for it.
CONTROLLING HER MATERIAL RESOURCES: The verbal abuser may control one or all of his partner's material resources by WITHHOLDING information as well as by withholding work which he has promised to do, often by "forgetting", "I don't know how", or "I didn't know I had to". Another common practice of the abuser is to withhold needed money, then compound the abuse by forcing her to act on her own, beg, plead, or do without. He then begins blaming his withholding on her acting on her own, begging, pleading, or "trying to be a martyr." In more severe cases, the controlling abuser will keep money from his wife that is necessary for her survival and that of their family (whether it is the promised food budget money or his entire salary). He gives no thought to "spending his own money," or what his control and selfishness is doing to his wife and family who are either deprived of necessities or working desperately to support themselves while HE feels in control and free!
CONTROLLING WITH BODY LANGUAGE AND GESTURES: The verbal abuser uses body language to control his partner, just as he uses words. The words and gestures often go together. This can be seen as using HIMSELF to control his partner. Following are some hurtful and intimidating ways of controlling that are forms of withholding and abusive anger:
Sulking
Stomping out
Refusing to talk
Walking away
Refusing to give her something
Hitting or kicking something
Refusing to make eye contact
Driving recklessly
Boredom-crossed arms, eyes closed, head down, deep sighs
Withdrawing or withholding affection
Showing disgust-rolled eyes, deep sighs, inappropriate sounds
Strutting and posturing
CONTROLLING BY DEFINING HER REALITY: This form of control is very oppressive. When he tells his partner what reality is, he is playing God, he is discounting the partner's experience by defining "THE TRUTH"-which in fact is a LIE. Some examples: That's not what you said or That's not what I said or That's not what you did or That's not what I did or That's not what happened. That's not what you saw. That's not what you felt. That's not why you did it. I know you better than you know yourself!
CONTROLLING BY MAKING HER RESPONSIBLE: By telling his partner she is responsible for his behavior, this verbal abuser attempts to avoid all responsibility for his own behavior. In other words, he avoids accountability by BLAMING. Examples include:
I did it because you...
You didn't remind me.
You just don't see what I do.
Just show me how
Set a good example
CONTROLLING BY ASSIGNING STATUS: Putting her down, especially on what she does best.
Putting her up, praising or thanking her for trivial things rather than the big things she does, which demeans her talents, time, and energy, while implying she is best suited to do trivial or demeaning tasks. This category also includes statements such as: That right! You're a woman! (said with disgust) What makes you think you can do that? I'm the leader, the boss. You're not THAT stupid. Just THINK about it. ITS THAT'S SIMPLE.
CONTROLLING BY DIMINISHING YOUR PARTNER:
Belittling
Laughing at or smirking
Offensive jokes
Mimicking your partner
Patronizing
Scornful, disdainful, contemptuous tone of voice
Ignoring, "I'm not listening to you"
Avoiding eye contact, turning away
Expecting partner to talk to you while you're watching TV, reading, game playing
Words like "Sooo" or "So what!" or "That means NOTHING to me" or "Whatever"
Bafflegabbing - talking in ways intended to mislead or baffle your partner
Insulting your partner
Making inappropriate sounds
Making inappropriate facial expressions-rolled eyes, grimaces, deep sighs
Starting a sentence then stating, "Forget it.."
Accusing her of being "controlling", "having to have the last word"
CONTROLLING behaviors such as those above are used by verbal abusers to gain feelings of power and control whenever the suppressed fear and pain in his own life start to "seep out" - terrified of not being in control, terrified of "feeling," terrified of her leaving.
Author Unknown
Hi, I can't take a friend with my tomorrow as she's busy, and also I don't see the point as I'm not worried about getting hurt (it's a relatively public place) and if a friend is there it will be pressuring and I'll feel like I have a time limit as I'd be keeping her waiting. I don't think having a friend there would affect my decision or the way I react to what he says, so I'm going to go on my own. I am going straight round to her house afterwards though and obviously later I will speak to you both on here so I will keep you updated. Thanks for your support, I know you'd prefer it if I took a friend but I don't feel that it would suit me in this situation! I am going to bed soon. I feel absolutely terrified about tomorrow.. I wish I knew what will happen and how I am going to feel when I see him... I just need to STAY STRONG and remember all the reasons this is happening! Speak soon x
I've only just seen your post Marianne so I'll read it now x
Thanks guys, I'll be on in the morning. Have a good night and speak tomorrow. You've both helped a lot. Night x
Good luck
I hope you have a good sleep and wake up feeling fresh and raring to go, before you do say a few self affirmations to help you. Yes Good Luck, and go for it.
You'll be fine!
Coping strategys
1.Grieve for what you have lost: ending a relationship is a loss that needs to be worked through, even if being together made you unhappy. Often, we are encouraged to 'forget them and move on', but this will only keep your ex firmly on your mind.
2.Seize the advantages of being single: as a single person, you have total control over what you do and where you go in your life. Start making plans to take advantage of your new freedom.
3.Mobilise your support system: being with friends and family allows you to vent your emotions as you sort through your life. They can also help you see how much you are loved and needed in your own right.
4.Reinvent yourself: get a haircut, change your look or take up something you've always fancied. Just don't do anything rash that you may later regret, such as leaving your job.
5.Sort out your financial affairs: breaking up can be stressful from a financial point of view. You may be left paying the rent or mortgage, or have to find a new place to live. If you're finding things a stretch, get some professional financial advice.
6.Accept you'll have down times: don't expect everything to be fine and dandy. Prepare yourself for some lonely moments, but remind yourself that they will pass and you will be happy again.
7.Set goals: one of the worst things about ending a relationship is seeing your future as a blank slate that was once filled with potential. Set new goals, be they work ones, travel ones or ones that broaden your life.
8.Let yourself be happy: single life may not be your ideal, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. Say yes to invites, make plans for your social life and work on finding a new way of living that pushes you out of your comfort zone now and again.
Five signs you're in a dead-end relationship
Let us know how things turn out!
Thank you, I want to click "agree" for most of your posts but it won't let me because I haven't "spread enough reputation" or something!
Not quite feeling the nerves yet, I've had to get up really early to help out as my Mum's going to an eye app. At the hosp. today so I've got to get my little brother ready for school and let the decorator man in, not ideal for today really is it! But never mind, I will go back to bed soon! Due to all this I'm thinking more about being tired than breaking up with him. I'm sure the nerves will set in later when I wake up for a second time. Thanks for all your luck, I will keep everything you've both said and everyone else has said in mind and keep POSITIVE! :D
I am leaving in half an hour. Pretty nervous now! Will let you know later what happens.
He is absolutely devastated. And I mean devastated. The way he was, you'd actually think that somebody had just told him that his whole family had died. It was horrible and nasty and cruel and I feel SICK and I feel like screaming and I feel like I want all this pain to go away. It's an actual physical ache, I can't explain it, I HATE IT
At first when I saw him I started to cry a little bit, but quite subtly. He was okay, we just talked about exams and our families in a very normal and stranger-ish way. It was odd. No emotions were really that obvious, and he was being really strong and positive. It felt weird to see him again but I didn't get any overwhelming desires to go rushing back into his arms or anything.
Then we got onto the subject of our relationship. It began with me telling him how bad the controlling things he's done are, such as telling me what to wear and not letting me go clubbing etc. I told him that I'd been clubbing last week and worn a bikini, and that I was fine and enjoyed it and want to do what I want to do. At this stage he still seemed very hopeful and clearly looked as though he thought we were together on the right track.
Then we sat down on the wall by the lake, and I can't remember what happened but I eventually told him I didn't want the relationship anymore because of our differences and his behaviour, and that despite the fact I still love him it would never work. It was odd, at first he got really frustrated with himself because he said he wasn't expressing himself properly, then he was telling me all about how he is so so willing to make me happy and adapt and change and become much more receptive to what I want and feel. When I said no to this, he kept telling me that I didn't understand what he was saying and how much he actually means it, he started to cry, so walked off, then came back, cried more, shouted really loudly in the corner and then cried again quite badly. I didn't know what to do. He tired to hug me and I resisited, but then he got so so upset and was really clearly in a lot of pain so somehow I let him and we hugged and he kept trying to hold my hand and just cling onto me basically. We were both crying a lot by this stage. I felt really guilty and bad for hugging him and at the time I knew it was wrong, but it was like I couldn't help it. I did try to resist but it made him so upset I couldn't help it.
There was obviously a lot of conversation going on between all this, with him asking me questions and us talking about things. I made it very clear that I was serious about my decision and that hugging wouldn't help and seeing me wouldn't help... it was like he couldn't bear to let go of me, also he couldn't look at me, when he did look at me he just broke down... then he would pull himself together for a moment but seconds later it would be bad again. It was horrid. At one point he got so upset that I told him to sit there for a minute and I went and phoned his best friend and his brother to tell them what had happened and that I didn't want to leave him on his own, so could they make sure they were with him afterwards.
Then he got a little embarrassed for being so upset, but soon later the tears just came again and it was getting torturous for both of us. But at the same time he didn't want me to leave. It's odd, I didn't expect him to be so understanding of my feelings (he actually listened to me and accepted that this is what I want) but at the same time he couldn't bear to let go. I keep crying and then stopping and then we'd cry again.. it got to the point where I really wanted to leave because nothing was getting any better. When I suggested going he got really upset and reluctant to let me leave, so I stayed a bit longer by the lake and we sat and talked and he hugged me more and he tried to kiss me but I said no, so instead he kissed my hair and just hugged me. It was absolutely heartbreaking. I've never seen somebody cry like this, especially not somebody as strong and together as he normally is, and his love for me is so evident and expressive, it's just terribly painful.
I honestly don't think you can understand how much he loves me. He is clearly still "in" love; I think I'd moved out of that stage of being in love and instead just loved him, but he is SO IN LOVE and SO DEVASTATED.
I KNOW this is against all the "rules" but in order to get him to calm down and for me to leave I agreed that I would speak to him on the phone every now and again and that we'd meet next week after I come back from my break with my best friend. It felt very bad and very wrong and not what I want deep down (even though on the surface I feel clingy too and want to see him again) but at the time I sort of had to agree to it. Saying no wasn't really an option. I couldn't be that nasty, he probably would have jumped in the lake. I suppose next week I can always say that meeting up isn't a good idea, even if it is just on a mutual basis (he accepts we're not together but still wants to "have happy times" and do nice things together). He told me that he'd been so selfish and uncaring about my needs, he said he'd let me wear bikinis if I want to and go clubbing if that's what I want, and that he wanted to sleep with me again as cutting it out and hurting me like that in the first place was the wrong thing to do.
I miss him a lot. It's odd, I still know this is the right decision as long-term he'll never change, and there isn't a happy future there, but the feelings of love, care, passion and emotion are overwhelming and I so badly have a strong desire to give in and go away with him for a few days or something. I know this is awful and I doubt I'd do that after all of this, but I just feel like such a cruel person, and feel like I should feel LUCKY to have someone adore me this much and be so desperate to keep me and give me all that I want. I just feel like a bit of a mess right now. I don't know how I'm ever going to forget his face and the way he was when he was telling me how much he loved me, would never want to so much as touch another woman and that if he did all he'd think about would be me. THIS IS TORTURE
Sorry for the exceptionally long message by the way.
By the way I know in my heart that at some point soon the best thing for both of us (him as well) would be for us to go no-contact to let him heal, but I genuinely don't think he's quite ready for that now. If I started ignoring him at this stage I think he might actually go crazy. Even though no contact would do me good, I really believe that right now it wouldn't do him any good. OH MY GOD I MISSS HIMMMMMMMM I want to screaaam
Quote:
Originally Posted by eveamee09
I really don't know what to say. I expected anything but this. I feel sorry for him and I feel sad for you. I really don't know what to say.
Yes I am really rather confused too. I am so lost with all this. A part of me really wants to give him another chance but I am so scared as I don't think he could definitely change.. I don't know.. I feel so sick right now and can't stop crying :( GRRRRRRR But people don't change right? That's what you've all been telling me :(
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