Hi there,
Anyone who cares to help but I have seen a lot of posts by wildcat and skell about this...
My fiancé recently broke with me as he wanted to be alone after 3 years together, aged 32 and 33,I became his passion and he forgot about himself , so after seeing each other as friends for the last 4 months we finally broke up properly last week, he loves me but needs to be alone to find his passion for life and as I was his first girlfriend to live with he gave too much of himself. I am an independent girl and always kept my own life but I guess he was so much in love and forgot himself and his life became my life. He wants to stay friends but I told him how I told him from the beginning I cannot just be friends that I need all or nothing.. So now I'm trying to find myself again and get new interests , meet new people... Is it possible he could regret sometime, could a man really want a life alone?

Any help would be great,Thanks.

When the alternative is to lose yourself and suffer the enormous problems that result from that, indeed yes! And this is not just a phenomena for the guys. Women are candidates for this too, even more so for the older generations who came from a past where a woman's life really was her husband and kids.

I spent fourteen years between my first and second marriage mostly alone (I needed a lot of work) and had I not taken that time and made that effort, I am certain most of my success and happiness now would simply not be possible.

People who reel from relationship to relationship, searching to make themselves whole reap (and often sow) a lot of pain. In its more extreme form, its called codependency-- a sort of addiction to love or another person. I see lots of examples of this in my line of work and sometimes here on this site. If one reaches adulthood without having grown into a "whole" person capable of making a satisfying life (and sadly quite a few do) best to work on that first before getting involved with someone. Just as your story proves, a relationship will stress that and stress that until its dealt with and very often at the "expense" of the relationship. I hope that helps illuminate it a bit. Great topic, thanks for posting it.

Thanks for the insight.. 14 years wow...
Interesting. Ive never really thought so much about losing myself..
I just found the change so shocking from someone who asked me to marry him in January to breking in May.
Guess that's why its so important in relationships to both maintain a healthly life outside each other otherwise one may lose themselves someday.

You do not need this guy back and right now it is not an option. Yes, people in love tend to get lost into each other and that is the phrase of joining together to become one when you are married.

Joe

<<If one reaches adulthood without having grown into a "whole" person capable of making a satisfying life (and sadly quite a few do) best to work on that first and then get involved with someone because just as your story proves, a relationship will stress that and stress that until its dealt with>>

Very very true, the thing was though when we met we had completely full lives and had both being single for a long long time and very independent . Guess we got overwhelmed by having found our good match that we did not keep up this.

<<that is the phrase of joining together to become one when you are married. >>

Do 2 people really need to become one?? I kind of disagree here and think people should keep 3 lives.. both of their own lives + couple life.

Or is there a thing of becoming one? or does it depend on the couple?

Anyone care to comment on this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rol

<<that is the phrase of joining together to become one when you are married. >>

Do 2 people really need to become one??? I kind of disagree here and think people should keep 3 lives..both of their own lives + couple life.

or is there a thing of becoming one??or does it depend on the couple?

anyone care to comment on this?

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Oh! That was perfect, the three... I totally agree with you. Except it probably wouldn't sound as good in wedding vows to say "...and the two shall join together and create a third and call it.... US" LOL Sounds more like you're going into business instead!

In addition to that, there are various stages of love too that some people have trouble negotiating, like that transition from the giddy falling in-love to the deeper just plain in love or a young love to an older, different love. That factors in as well.

Ha ha yes for wedding vows it could sound a little strange ;-)))

<<there are various stages of love too that some people have trouble negotiating, like that transition from in love to deeper love or a young love to an older, different love. That factors in as well.>>

Interesting.
Thanks of your insight, guess you have been through all this and understand it all now.
Guess a lot of people think love is just about those sparks and don't really realise that love is really what there is when those sparks are gone.

Well I am living and learning I guess...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rol

interesting. Thanks of your insight, guess you have been through all this and understand it all now. Guess alot of people think love is just about those sparks and dont really realise that love is really what there is when those sparks are gone. well i am living and learning i guess.....

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:eek: I make NOOOOOO claim to understanding it all, let alone a substantial portion of it!

I am right next to you on the learning bus, girlfriend (and no, its not the short bus, you guys!) :p

I think you've gotten some great advice here.

Yes - just remember to work on yourself - be busy.

He may come back - but you can't convince anyone to come back. He also doesn't deserve any of your attention what so ever right now.

People want what they can't have - I am wondering if you both were just way too available to each other?

" Guess alot of people think love is just about those sparks and dont really realise that love is really what there is when those sparks are gone." - Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh - could you please go back in time and explain that to about 5 certain women?? PLEASE!! That is so true! Sparks are just the beginning.

Yes -we ALL are still learning.

<<People want what they can't have - I am wondering if you both were just way too available to each other?>>

Yes way too available!! I won't make that mistake ever again, but as it was the first time I was ever really in love I didn't realise that and all seemed so perfect.

Another thing I am trying to understand , why on earth are we taught from an early age that that's what love is, the princess waiting for her prince charming who live happily ever after... I think this is the whole problem , you grow up with an illusion which is not true...

Well, that is usually the case when 'love' dies - you take each other for granted.

"another thing i am trying to understand , why on earth are we taught from an early age that thats what love is, the princess waiting for her prince charming who live happily ever after... I think this is the whole problem , you grow up with an illusion which is not true......."

This is so true! It's what I call the "Movie Problem" - the movies ARE FAKE. Movies are not reality.

I real life does a women EVER take a guy back after he cries like a baby and begs?? Never. The ending in love stories are so FAKE - EXCEPT - Gone With The Wind!

Reality vs Moives/Fairy Tales... reality is so differnet and people get so confused.

Each relationship is unique in some regards so this may not be the case for others but two of THE most important things my mate and I do habitually, almost instictively, not always LOL, is:

Challenge each other constructively and trade the power back and forth.

Oddly enough most of the time when we encounter a wrinkle in the road, its about one of those two areas gone temporarily awry. In this area of our relationship, it's a bit like a high wire act and sometimes we slip and hit the nets.

Wow, this is a really great thread and you have some great answers here. Val, tremendous stuff.

I just want to add something that ties in with the theme of this thread for people to ponder.

When discussing in PM's my relationship problems some months ago with a certain member who might I add does feature prdeominately on this thread, this theory was also posed to me.

Now rol, I really don't think this applies to you. But it certainly at times can apply to other relationship. Just as there can be too much of an US, sometimes there can be not enough of an US. Please read below for a better explanation;

It fundementally comes down to this: me, you, and us-- there needs to be balance and boundaries to all 3 and that is where more and more people are screwing up. What some people call true love, I call emeshment. They lose themselves in it, too much overlap and so lose the relationship too. It sounds to me like in your relationship, it was just the opposite -- there wasn't enough overlap, the "us" part kinda sorta evaporated leaving a you and a me but no us? Does that fit at all? It may be that certain things chipped away at your intimacy, the "us" part without you both realising it?

Never a truer word spoken val...

Had to share this with others as well though!

I would like to add though that since coming here I have become aware of such issues in relationships. Many people never realise what the problem is because they jump from one to the next, never really taking time alone to understand what went wrong and how they can improve themselves. I really think this is an important part of any break up.

The time you take to evaluate. It is a sometimes painful period but I think at the other end of it the person you become is so much healthier than the person you were. St least that is the path I see myself taking.

Since I have gained a little understanding on these issues from both here and my own research, I have witnessed it so much in my "normal" life, as well as here online with posters.

I have friends who fall head deep in love and catn keep the balance. And after a couple of months it falls over. It happens all the time.

I then see those same people jump staright out of that relationship and into another one. Looking for happiness that they won't find. It is a vicious cycle and one that appears very hard for some to escape.

LOL is always a strange experience for me to be quoted.
Thank you for the compliment Skell, but to tell you the truth, I forget half the crap I say! LOL So its like, oh? I said that? :eek:
OMG, good thing is more than half way accurate! :rolleyes:

When I was just reading through this thread I remembered some crap you told me that might apply here so went to see if I still had it.
LOL. ;)

This is a great thread and I can't add anything but give yourself a chance by working on yourself. I've been married 32 years and sparks still fly but not as high. That's okay since we both know we are here as one. The key is to have two TV's. ( Didn't I say I didn't have anything to add!! )

It's hard to say for sure. If this had been a short-lived relationship where you hadn't known each other for very long then I would tell you that you no doubt smothered each other and didn't give each other any space. However, you've been together three years and were engaged, so any issues in this regard should have been resolved long ago. For now, I think you just need to forget about him and move on. You've suggested that you're trying to acquire new interests and meet new people and that's a step in the right direction. Get on with your life without him. Make him realize that you can enjoy life just as much without him as with him. You don't need him to make you happy.

Well the problem was not about smothering each other, problem according to him is that when he is in a relationship(as this was his first real one) he can only give , and feels guilty if he is not with me, according to him we became "us". I always kept my friends and at the beginning always encouraged him to call and go out with his friends but he did not ,so his life became the life I had created ,so he lost himself eventually and I became his only passion which eventually made him wake up and want to feel his passion for life again. So for me 'I' AND 'US' WERE OK BUT 'HE' was missing.

<<It fundementally comes down to this: me, you, and us-- there needs to be balance and boundaries to all 3 and that is where more and more people are screwing up. What some people call true love, I call emeshment. They lose themselves in it, too much overlap and so lose the relationship too. It sounds to me like in your relationship, it was just the opposite -- there wasn't enough overlap, the "us" part kind of sort of evaporated leaving a you and a me but no us? >>

Ill quote you again. I totally agree with the question of balance here in all 3... extremely important... If one part is missing there will be a problem.

OK I have one question... Should I keep in contact with him while he finds his identity again?

I've seen all the no contact advice here, but I think in my case this is a bit different...

I am moving on, meeting new people, doing new activties, going out with female and male friends , and I do feel fine.

I told him the last time when we talked (3 weeks)that I would contact him when I was ready so I was thinking of just sending a short email to say " I respect and understand your decision to be alone, As i said in the beginning i just want you to be happy. Im ok , having fun , ive got back to painting again. Call me when you want to meet for a drink as "just friends".


So advice, would this be OK? I really hate this silence, plus he was a good guy who always treated me so well and I cannot think of one bad thing against him, so I do just want the best for him.

No Contact!!

That is what others tell me. RRegardless of how good a man he was, contacting him will only push him further away. What you are doing now will not be of any interest to him until he starts to miss you!!

As others tell me, your ex will only miss you if you become unavailable and then they will become curious...

Hope this helps!

Well I would not be contacting him for the reason of pursuing him, it would be just to let him know I respect his decision and life goes on. I will have to contact him anyhow in 2 weeks over an issue we have so I thought it might be good to add that at the end of the mail.

O.K.

Well, that sounds o.k then, I guess you are just getting closure in this case.. But just make sure this is what motivates you to do this.

But I'm sure you know what you are doing.

Just son't want it to go pearshaped for others.. You sound like you had something special with him so just be careful how you deal with this situation.

There are going to be times when you really, really miss him and that is when the No contact becomes hard and then it seems like purseuing..

I may be talking from my own perspective but I think many make the same mistakes..

But if you need any advice, come on here and others will support you!!

I think you are making the mistake of 'burning bridges' and shutting him out completely because he is being honest with not wanting a relationship with you, and only seeking a friendship; in the end it is the best thing for you, as it sounds like if he were to stay around it wouldn't be a great thing for your well being and would only get your hopes up when they shouldn't.

Go meet new people, get out of the house and off the computer e-mailing him.

Spend some time and money on yourself, show attention to yourself so that it clicks in your mind that you are someone without him.

Is anyone worth the pain and suffering of a breakup, if they don't want you as a companion? I think not!

Its OK to cry, its OK to hit your pillow or vent here.

It should only take once to let him know that 'Life goes on', otherwise you'd be protesting too much.

I wish you luck! Take care:).

Yes of course I am not emailing him or acting stupid, and if we continue the friendship we have been having for the last 5 months since he needed to think (where he initiated every contact), it would be just that. I just had the talk 3 weeks ago as things were not clear for me and he told me he has been very confused for the last 5 months , so now things are clear , he wants to reinvent his life again. So I will continue reinventing mine also while maintaining contact if he contacts... I am a strong ,independent , confident girl not the type who would be running to his beck and call.. and when he calls I will be busy and mysterious.
Well let me see if ye have any more views on this issue?

Actually I should let him face the void...
Ill contact him in 2 weeks about the issue I have and then ill just add the bit about respecting his decision and that I want him to be happy. I won't bother with the call me if you want to go for a drink part, that sounds a bit desperate ;-)

No don't contact him in my opinion. Why?

I just don't really see a point.

Just because you are ready might not mean he is ready. Don't put any pressure on him.

Just leave it a while longer. Let him contact you when and if he is ready.

Just continue to go about your life the way you are.

Although you say you have no other motives to call him other than to just be friendly it may not necessarily appear that way, and deep inside yourself if your completely honest then I dare say it isn't entirely the truth either.

You are intrigued if there still might be something there aren't you and want to test the waters?

I just still think it is too hard and too soon to be friends. If it weren't then you wouldn't even bother asking here. It would just come natural. It wouldn't have to be forced or instigated.

So I say for the benefit of all involved don't contact him. It might not harm anything, but it might. Why take that risk when you say you are going so great without him anyway. Just keep moving forward and concentrating on you.

Having him as your friend right now probably won't assist your progress in my opinion, nor will it is!

Why do you need to tell him you respect his decision?

You are making excuses to contact him.

I think your actions would prove to him that you respect his decision. You don't need to tell him that!

Is the issue that important that you need to contact him or again are you just making excuses to contact him.

Im only asking this because I know what it is like. You look for any little reason you can to have contact hoping it will bring them back. It doesn't work like that sorry.

Trust me I know.

Quote:

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actually I should let him face the void...
Ill contact him in 2 weeks about the issue I have and then ill just add the bit about respecting his decision and that I want him to be happy. I won't bother with the call me if you want to go for a drink part, that sounds a bit desperate ;-)

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I'm like Skell, but more curious as to what issues you may have that's so important to break no contact? There is no need to express how you feel so I'm of the mind that you are looking for an excuse to see him again. Please straighten me out.

I know the pain of keeping no contact. I have a lot of questions and things I'd like to talk about with my ex. But I push it down and stay strong. Because I will always think of more things I want to talk to her about even if I did say what I wanted to right now. But I will say nothing to her unless she decides to contact me and want to talk about it. If your ex doesn't contact you, chances are they don't want to hear what you have to say anyway, they may not be ready. When you're outside of the relationship there's no reason to talk about things that happened in it and the issues unless both people are willing to talk it out and work everything over. If things were real, he will come back in his own time when he figures out what he has to do for himself and you two will have a lot to discuss. Till then, I say let him go, enjoy your life while he figures out his and hopefully things will be for the best in the end.

<<There is no need to express how you feel so I'm of the mind that you are looking for an excuse to see him again. Please straighten me out.>>

No I promise its not an excuse. Don't be out of your mind with me ;-)
So the thing is we still own a house together where I am living now, so the issue is regarding a really big bill. It can wait a few weeks.

Thanks everyone else for the advice.
Ive also read love tactics site which is great , kind of the advice I had given to myself... But I guess there is a waiting period first?

This one for example
"It isn't the "friendship" you want to discontinue. It's any expectations he may feel entitled to from you that you want to cease. In other words, he can call but you may not be there. He might want to see you but you might have a date with someone else, or plans that you are under no obligation to explain to him. There is no understanding of exclusivity, or friendship that makes him a priority over anyone else. But I wouldn't hold a hard line on saying "we can't be friends... it's either all or nothing!" What that does is tell him how badly hooked you are on him and that you're all emotional over him. He will be more attracted to you if he thinks that you are independent enough to be his friend, but not be dependent upon his friendship. I know it's a hard balancing act, but it is precisely what works. Be such a good friend that he really enjoys your friendship -- WHEN HE CAN GET IT! But be elusive enough (end your conversations first, and don't return all of his calls or any of them right away) that you become more of a challenge. It is VERY important also, that you show enough independence to be developing relationships with other men and dating as much as possible. That stimulates a man's competitive nature and increases his desire for you.


Would this be the next step after the 2 month no contact phase?

I really really appreciate all your advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rol

<<People want what they can't have - I am wondering if you both were just way too available to each other?>>

yes way too available!!!!!!!!!!i wont make that mistake ever again, but as it was the first time i was ever really in love i didnt realise that and all seemed so perfect.

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Hi Rol, thanks for your advice in my post by the way..

Reference to the quote above, Yes I think when you become too available, you become lost in a kind of bubble where everything seems perfect and you become so deeply distracted (quoting tal in my thread) that you are unable to act on any signs of a relationship starting to fall apart.

Do you think a complete split could bring you closer together as in, possibly reconcile after some months have passed with No Contact - referring to your situation?

Hi Geoffersonairplane,
Thanks for your advice, I've been reading WAPS thread also. We are all in the same situation.. I'm going to read the updates in your thread now.
Yes I need to do no contact,
Keep drumming it into me ;-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rol

<<There is no need to express how you feel so I'm of the mind that you are looking for an excuse to see him again. Please straighten me out.>>

no i promise its not an excuse. don't be out of ur mind with me ;-)
So the thing is we still own a house together where i am living now, so the issue is regarding a really big bill. It can wait a few weeks.

Thanks everyone else for the advice.
Ive also read love tactics site which is great , kind of the advice i had given to myself....But i guess there is a waiting period first?

This one for example
"It isn't the "friendship" you want to discontinue. It's any expectations he may feel entitled to from you that you want to cease. In other words, he can call but you may not be there. He might want to see you but you might have a date with someone else, or plans that you are under no obligation to explain to him. There is no understanding of exclusivity, or friendship that makes him a priority over anyone else. But I wouldn't hold a hard line on saying "we can't be friends...it's either all or nothing!" What that does is tell him how badly hooked you are on him and that you're all emotional over him. He will be more attracted to you if he thinks that you are independent enough to be his friend, but not be dependent upon his friendship. I know it's a hard balancing act, but it is precisely what works. Be such a good friend that he really enjoys your friendship -- WHEN HE CAN GET IT! But be elusive enough (end your conversations first, and don't return all of his calls or any of them right away) that you become more of a challenge. It is VERY important also, that you show enough independence to be developing relationships with other men and dating as much as possible. That stimulates a man's competitive nature and increases his desire for you.


Would this be the next step after the 2 month no contact phase?

i really really appreciate all your advice.

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I don't know about two months. But when you honestly are at a place where you are mature and healthy and live a balanced fulfilled life then anything is possible. In two months if you HONESTLY think you have arrived at that place then you'll know it. Not to doubt you or your commitment to heal but being honest with ones self is a very healthy sign and make take longer than two months. All you have to do is ask some of the people who post here how long its been for them to get insight on just what they are going through and how long they have been going through it.

Well I am changing mood every day, one day I am OK and the next I am not so good.
I was actually OK when we were doing the friends thing until the night that we spent together, but of course that was all a bit weird because I don't think either of us had ended things at all, and were both very confused, and I guess while he was confused he was calling me whenever he would miss me.. The thing is the night we talked we could easily have ended up being intimate again, we were smiling at each other and it was getting ridiculous so I had to talk about how I was confused the last time.
So now I have definitely to do no contact to make all this seem more real.
I just went for lunch now and met someone I knew and he goes how's your boyfriend /husband.So I just said he's fine. I cannot tell people. The same thing happened last week and when I tried to explain what had happened the girl actually laughed and thought it was a joke.
So I've told 3 people I think! My colleages in office at work don't even knowOutside I'm a happy person and good at hiding my feelings but inside its another story!
Plus it was my birthday a few days ago and I got about 30 mails and calls, but none from my ex(gosh that's the first time I think I called him that) I think I am in a process of serious denial!!

Excuse my venting here but it is helping me to express my thoughts..

Shock, denial, bargaining, anger, fear, sadness -- all parts of the grieving process. And its wise to choose with care who you reveal yourself to since this is a time of great emotional fragility. Be especially protective and kind with yourself as you heal and know that it's a "three steps forward, two back" kind of process for all humans. Allow yourself to find the gem of wisdom in this to apply to all future endeavors so that the pain is not for nothing. My condolences to you about your loss.

Thank you all for you words of wisdom...

I was just reading Skells advice on another thread which also helps

"i think maybe it is about time that you became selfish and stop putting others first.
Put yourself first and your happiness.
If you dont do this and give yourself the best possible shot at being happy then you can't complain when you arent happy.
does that make sense.
you say you always put others first and never look after your own well being. Well of course you arent going to be happy. Do you like the misery? Im sure you dont.
Well stop it. Give yourself the best possible chance at happiness. And if that involves being a little selfish and putting yourself before others then thats what it takes. Too bad.
Until you do as such then you wont be happy and probably dont deserve it because you havent really tried.
The ball is in your court. Which path do you want to take.
i know which one i would!"

This also helps me understand that my ex made the decision to make himself happy and oput himself first.That was actually my reasoning in wanting to send that mail I wanted to send previously, just to show that I am fine and understand his decision, otherwise maybe he thinks I am wallowing in selfpity now and is not concentrating on himself as he should be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

Shock, denial, bargaining, anger, fear, sadness -- all parts of the grieving process. And its wise to choose with care who you reveal yourself to since this is a time of great emotional fragility. Be especially protective and kind with yourself as you heal and know that its a "three steps forward, two back" kind of process for all humans. Allow yourself to find the gem of wisdom in this to apply to all future endeavors so that the pain is not for nothing. My condolences to you about your loss.

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I had a big problem with the shock and denial stages and I was numb for a good month and then anger set in like I never felt it before and to be honest, I keep switching between Sadness and anger, my mind can't make it's mind up.. I have become emotkionally resigned to the reality of my situation but it's a long process rol...

I do hope your pain heals soon, but please remain out of contact for your own sake... I think I've cracked the No Contact and it speeds up the process a little, not saying it goes away but it sure beats contact, that will just hurt you even more regardless of your motives behind the contact..

NO CONTACT!!

Take Care!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rol

This also helps me understand that my ex made the decision to make himself happy and oput himself first.That was actually my reasoning in wanting to send that mail i wanted to send previously, just to show that i am fine and understand his decision, otherwise maybe he thinks i am wallowing in selfpity now and is not concentrating on himself as he should be.

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Please don't worry so much about what he thinks at this time. It doesn't matter whether he thinks your wallowing in self pity or going better than ever. It doesn't change anything. It doesn't help you.

Only you help you. So how about you be selfish as well and stop worrying about him, and focus on you.

It will get you no where. I have been in your shoes and until you start to worry about yourself and realise that worrying about your ex doesn't change anything you will continue to stagnate in the one spot.

My ex also for the first time in her life decided to pout herself first. But it was at the expense of me. Until I realised that and decided to stop feeling sorry for her and me nothing improved.