Good afternoon all. I'd very much appreciate to hear any opinions on the following situation:

Girlfriend and I live together for about 4 months so far. We have our ups and downs,
But we love each other very much and intend to build a family... Girlfriend's mother flies in from out of state to visit us for a week. During this time, girlfriend and her mother go out for drinks one night (mothers birthday). Girlfriend and mother stay out late and she does not call me at anypoint during the night. They get home around 7 in the morning from their night out. In the morning I talk with girlfriend about it... She tells me that they were very drunk, and she forgot to call. She tells me they went out to the bars, and went with a couple (man/woman) to their apartment to smoke weed after the bars closed, and went out for breakfast afterwards.

That's the situation... I broke up with her this morning, becasuse most importantly I don't trust her after this type of behavior, and I don't approve of any woman who is in a serious relationship to be "out" this late. I don't feel that her mothers birthday are an exception either, as she is married herself. Had she called me during the night, I would feel more trusting of her. Her mother is still here for a few more days, but I felt that I had to put the relationship on hold due to our misunderstanding and lack of communications for a couple that live together.

Opinions please! I'd love to hear any and all!

While I don't approve of her not calling you, but she was out with her mother. She didn't hide anything when you asked her what happened and was open with it. Personally I wouldn't date someone who does weed, but that is a clear understanding before I even start the relationship. I think you want full control of that relationship and she went out one time and did this and you end the relationship? I mean, that's your decision but I think you are way to controlling. Who are you to determine what her mother does? Obviously her husband is more trusting of her. If my girlfriend told me I can't go out for my friends birthday or my dad's birthday all night, I would tell her to hit the pike

If she would have gone out with a friend like this, I would understand, but this was her mother - for goodness sake! Being a mother myself, I'd hate for my daughter to have to take her 'leash' with her when she's with me.

So what if she forgot to call you... you knew who she was out with, and she probably thought that you'd trust her enough to understand. She did tell you the truth - what more do you want... Did you tell her that you expected a call or when it would be appropriate for her to be 'home'?

If it were me, I'd run, not walk away from you after packing my things. You have a control problem and need to work on yourself before you think you can expect someone else to adhere to your rules.

Good luck with your next girlfriend.

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Actaually she was not open with me about it... Now she has told me that there was another guy there, that's one girl and two guys. And no this was not a one time thing. I broke up with her becase this is the straw that broke the camels back for me. A handful of times that her actions have broken our agreements in the relationship. The last time it happened I made it clear to her it was the last. And to be honest, her mother has nothing to do with the problem, it is between me and her. I don't hold any resentment on her mother, but her mother is in agreement with me on why my girlfriend is wrong, and says that herself that she would be in trouble had her husband known about this.
I'd prefer not to go off subject here, although I must say that often times men have been brainwashed by what they see in the media and TV into thinking that this type of behavior is OK from their woman. I do not feel that it has anything to do with control, because any woman would feel the same toward their man had he done this. Makes me wonder if those who commented on this actually live with their partners. Those who do, Im sure would give their boyfriend/girlfriend a call if they were staying out this late.

Any other opinions?

Let me add, that a phonecall/text can make the difference. I seriously doubt any "real" man here would accept his woman staying out till 7am drinking and getting high, regardless to who she is with, and not when you sleep in the same bed. Being open with this behavior, I feel, is for those who are casually dating, not when you live under one roof in the same bed. It's a new world, but some traditional standards have a real purpose. And in this century we have cell phones. ANY MAN/WOMAN CAN CALL OR TEXT THEIR PARTNER AND LET THEM KNOW THEY ARE SAFE AND WILL BE OUT A BIT LATER.

But to repeatadly have your communication with your partner at the least priority, I feel is unacceptable, and is the reason that I had to part ways with this girl.

Sounds like you know what you want, what you're looking for in a relationship, what you'll put up with and what you won't. Whether we share your individual decision-points, we can respect a person who is willing to STAND on their beliefs.

Just be fair, make sure you're really not over-reacting. Only you can honestly decide that, we're just opining.

I hope your assurance and self-awareness pay off for you in the end.

Yes it may have been wrong for her not to call you, but if you cannot let you girlfriend go out one night with her mother who lives out of town then you need to ask yourself did you really have trust for her to begin with? You got to let the girl have some fun. If I were you I would have gone out with my friends while she went out and have fun.

I honestly appreciate all of your replies, regardless to agreement/disagreement on my actions. One of the reasons I posted this, is to get opinions that differ from mine as well. It helps me look at this 360 with you guys help.

I know it must be hard to give your best opinions based on what little information you guys are given also. I realize that at least here, I come across as controlling/possesive. I respect all opinions, but it is hard to judge based off a story without all the pieces. I have not dealt with this woman in any possesive manner, and to get more opinions on this I would like to let you guys/gals know what lead up to the straw that broke the camels back:

After an argument one night, she told me she would go to her sisters house. She left, but
When we spoke later she was at some guys house smoking weed...

Cries at least 2-3 times a week, regardless to the issues (money, work related, etc) instead of talking about it in a way that deal with the problem she cries, and I calm her down and assure her. I am the man here and this is my responsibility, but I think to cry this often is rooted to other personal issues that even I can't resolve.

Lets people walk over her. This is at work, her family, you name it. I train her emotionally to believe in herself and stand on her two feet. Any man who loves his woman would do the same for her. I helped her find justice when she was sexually harassed at work, I could not accept that she wouldn't stand up for herself so I made her go back to work and report it. Turned out better than she thought. But she recently had a coworker throw something at the back of her head, and she isn't doing much about it...

Lied to her family about dating me, and later about living with me... nuff said
(we are of different races, although I will not mention what they are because
I don't feel that is important here)

Lied about men she had sex with before she met me... problem is we agreed to be open about who each of our friends are, and if someone is around you that you once slept with, I feel your partner at least has the right to know. We agreed on this mutually and I have been open with her when this situation turned my way.. she has not

I feel that this is enough pieces to mention, and maybe it can be clearer that my breakup with her wasn't all of a sudden. It was from a series of events that I made clear when we met that I wouldn't tolerate. I feel deceived, and believe that she liked me so much that she wanted to be with me regardless to her shortcomings, and that she lead me on to believe that she was a woman who met my standards so she could get what she wanted. My problem is that she has no backbone... I want/need a strong woman who has the respect and the drive to meet her partners needs. In return this woman would receive all the same from me... In the end it is our actions that speak louder than words, and no matter how much she pleads with me, I feel that she would only somehow break those simple things that create trust, open communication, and ultimately give foundation for relationships to work.

YES I HAVE BEEN IN BAD RELATIONSHIPS IN MY PAST, HOWEVER I GO INTO EACH NEW ONE WITH FAIRNESS TO MY PARTNER.. BUT WHAT I HAVE LEARNED IS TO STOP BS RIGHT IN ITS TRACKS WHEN YOU SEE IT, BECAUSE YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE OTHER PERSON, ALL YOU CAN DO IS GIVE THE RELATIONSHIP TIME UNTIL YOU SEE THEIR TRUE COLORS, GOOD OR BAD (belongs in another post I've seen here, hehe)

Sounds like you may be a little too controlling BUT she sounds like a party type whereas you sound like you want a more down to earth settled life. So aside from who is right or wrong it sounds like you two just have different values and not compatible anyway.
I agree with the others that there isn't anything wrong with going out with mom or going out with the girls but she crossed that line to the point you can't trust her. Although I do think it is inconsiderate to not call I also don't always hold it against someone when they don't. Besides even when someone calls that doesn't mean they are not up to no good so it is a false sense of reassurance. A guy could be right there and she could still call so what did it prove? Only that she was thinking 'I need to call him'

This is not primarily about trust in that way... Imagine that you live with your partner, share the same bed every night, Every night. Then one night you get home, go to sleep, but you wake up at 6:30 in the morning, the sun is shining... and NOBODY is laying next to you... NO PHONECALL... NO TEXT... WHERE THE F**K ARE THEY... DID SOMETHING HAPPEN TO THEM... OH NO I HOPE SHE Didn't GET HURT OR AN ACCIDENT OR SOMETHING BAD..

When you live with your partner it is like family at that point. And what close family member wouldn't call you and let you know they would be out later... maybe a teenager, but nobody else would behave this way.

Who here has ACTUALLY dealt with this type of situation? Please no doctor phil advice off TV or a book please

I do know the feeling and it is really crummy but she was out with her mother.
All I was saying is if it is a pattern with her then she is not good for you
If it was out of her character then maybe you did over react.
I am no Dr. Phil my ex husband use to go to work on Monday morning and come home
Monday evening ---a week later so I DO know the feeling. While he was out running around with his friends between work hours I was left home waking up all through the night with that crummy feeling.

Thanks. I know that you know just what I mean. Its never a mistrust feeling, it is always hoping something didn't happen to them. You lose the trust after you find out that they were fine, and they were actually out drinking/partying or doing drugs. Where I live, bars close between 3-4am anyway, so its not about your partner having their freedom when they get home after 7am and Didn't"T contact you at all. That is suspicious behavior, and depends on the individual how much they will accept of this from their partner I feel. Furthermore, I don't feel that her mother being with her changes anything, actually makes it worse because there is no example for the daughter. Her mother has a good husband at home, who she admits would not have accepted this.....

Regardless they are both grown women and free to make their own choices, just not at my expense, and not while staying in my home. I am the man here, the provider, and I do a damn good job at that. One of my jobs is also to make sure all who live under my roof are safe, even at the cost of my own. This is one of a "real" man's responsibilities. It has nothing to do with being possesive, most certainly not in the age of cell phones and other wireless technology.

Thanks for the comments all, can we get some more voices on this subject?
I'd love to hear from those who already responded, as well as some new

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I broke up with her this morning, becasuse most importantly I don't trust her after this type of behavior, and I don't approve of any woman who is in a serious relationship to be "out" this late. I don't feel that her mothers birthday are an exception either, as she is married herself.

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Your not married and if its so important to control a female under all circumstances, she is not the one for you so it may be better to set her free and let her enjoy her life, rather than be controlled by a man. You have no give in your game and she sounds like she isn't going to obey you any way.

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Where I live, bars close between 3-4am anyway, so its not about your partner having their freedom when they get home after 7am and DIDN'T contact you at all. That is suspicious behavior, and depends on the individual how much they will accept of this from their partner I feel.

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It may not be to your liking, but you can't go from safety concerns to suspicious, unless you were having trust issues anyway, and with her mother with her to boot.

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Furthermore, I don't feel that her mother being with her changes anything, actually makes it worse because there is no example for the daughter. Her mother has a good husband at home, who she admits would not have accepted this...

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That's between mom and daughter and is really none of your business at all. Since you have ended this relationship over it, there is nothing left but to move on and find a more submissive partner you can control, since its obvious that your rules are not meant to be broken.

Honestly, in my more than 30 years of marriage, have I felt it necessary to treat my wife as a child, who needs to be punished for disobedience. We work together to agree on boundaries as equals, and discuss at length our feelings in all situations. When you have reached that point and found that partner you'll be ready for a real love, by a real woman, that you don't have to be so controlling of. That's your issue to work on not hers. As I have stated at least you are giving her a chance to be free, and happy by getting out of her life.

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Originally Posted by Genuineforce

Thanks. I know that you know just what I mean. Its never a mistrust feeling, it is always hoping something didn't happen to them. You lose the trust after you find out that they were fine, and they were actually out drinking/partying or doing drugs. Where I live, bars close between 3-4am anyways, so its not about your partner having their freedom when they get home after 7am and DIDN"T contact you at all. That is suspicious behavior, and depends on the individual how much they will accept of this from their partner I feel. Furthermore, I don't feel that her mother being with her changes anything, actually makes it worse because there is no example for the daughter. Her mother has a good husband at home, who she admits would not have accepted this.....

Regardless they are both grown women and free to make their own choices, just not at my expense, and not while staying in my home. I am the man here, the provider, and I do a damn good job at that. One of my jobs is also to make sure all who live under my roof are safe, even at the cost of my own. This is one of a "real" man's responsibilities. It has nothing to do with being possesive, most certainly not in the age of cell phones and other wireless technology.

Thanks for the comments all, can we get some more voices on this subject?
I'd love to hear from those who already responded, as well as some new

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I agree with others here-but I would say that you are just a little more "old-fashioned" rather than controlling-which to some people, may actually mean the same thing. However, I also have to say that I actually agree with YOU most of all. I am a woman, who was in a relationship with a man that did this same thing to me. He also used drugs (more than just marijuana and alcohol though). It may differ slightly from your situation as we had children involved; however, some instances relate to yours in a very strong way. At first, he would not come home all night long. He would call and say he was on his way home (on his own free will) but would never actually make it. Then it came to a point where he would do this several days in a row without a single call at all. I agree that this behavior is extremely unacceptable and there is really no reasonable explanation for it at all. It's disrespectful if you are in a committed relationship. Yes, it is upsetting because you do think the worst has happened, that they got hurt or kidnapped or killed. Well, after a while when you find out that they are not hurt or killed, well then you are still pissed because of the worrying you had been put through.
I also agree with you that just because she was with her mother doesn't mean that something "wrong" couldn't have or didn't happen.
Again, this is where I can relate. Referring to the same man I have spoken about above, one instance his dad and his wife at the time came down to visit us in our home (they lived in a different state). Well, they went to go drop off my boyfriend's sister (she came over to our house to visit with her dad too) and then was expected to come back home as we had rented movies and barbecued and all that jazz. Well, needless to say it had been hours and hours and hours before they returned and when they did, needless to say, the stepmom and I were furious. As it turned out, they ended up going to this bar and picked up another female friend of my boyfriend (someone who he had been cheating on me with) and went out and went dancing. And some... His dad ended up telling his stepmom the truth and in return-she told me. That's how I found out.

Now, not every situation-for ex: like yours-is like mine; however, I wouldn't completely ignore the possibility just because the girl was with her mother.

NEVER FAILS WITHOUT A COMMENT FROM TALANIMAN, showing that he did not even read through your WHOLE post on an issue. This is the doctor phil type comments that I did not want here. I wanted comments from REAL people, who have BEEN in this situation.
Not from someone who, if you look at all their advice in the relationship section, tells people that something is wrong with them EACH time. This may not be the place, but I get the feeling that Talaniman briefly scans your post, and follows up with a very unrealistic eqation with "your problem" on the other side of the eqals sign. Almost like on a talk show (remember ricki lake?) where you see audience members who want to be on TV so they can point fingers and tell people what their problem is.

For someone married for 30 years (probably within a virtual reality bubble together), I highly doubt you would agree with your wife staying out until 7am, no phone call or any notification of any sort. That would be the most ridiculous relationship advice I would have ever heard.

Please look through what I have actually typed to you guys, and see what my reasons, yes I said R E A S O N SSS were for letting her go.

Aww, Gen, this forum, like any relationship, succeeds or fails on the reaonability of the posters. Disagreeing is one thing, I'm not sure I could defend your post if I was inclined to.

... and we were all on your side until that last one. Oh well.

Thank you Depressed in MO!
Your advice was the realest so far. I cannot stand the previous, completely FAKE advice
From Talaniman, he is just full of it in his posts. This is no fairytale. This is a real relationship.

Regardless I feel what you are saying, what your partner did was not OK at all either.
No I am not married to her, but what am I to expect from her if this is how she behaves now? Think about it peolple. Thanks for what you've said though.

Some people really confuse old fashioned with possesive. Its funny because they can be more brainwashed than those who they accuse of this because communication and respect have NOTHING to do with controlling or degrading a woman. Not at all

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Originally Posted by JBeaucaire

Aww, Gen, and we were all on your side until that last one. Oh well.

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Speak for yourself

Genuine... With all due respect, Talaniman's opinion around here is sound and actually looked for. He has helped countless people and when I first got here I tried blaming myself for my break up and he told me that it wasn't my fault so obviously he doesn't always say that. I commend him for his 30 years of marriage because marriages these days are fastly divorced. This is YOUR problem and something is wrong with you, controlling and possessive is a very bad thing to have in a relationship. You wanted someone who was going to do whatever you wanted, she couldn't give you that so you did what you thought was right. There's no shame in that, you know what you want and are making sure you get it.

I shall repeat:

Communication and respect have NOTHING to do with controlling or degrading a woman. Nothing at all

I agree that even when you are not married but living together you should have the same
Commitment level as being married if you want it to work.
I agree that she is was not considerate. I just told my boyfriend the other day he is not considerate when he comes to visit me and the next thing I know he has walked down the street to hang out without even saying he is going down the street and we don't even live together.
Not sure what you are looking for here as an answer since you quit the relationship what is the problem. Are you wanting confirmation about how you feel? Or how to deal with issues?
Really, if you want to work things out the only thing you can do is tell her how you feel and discuss how things should work in the future. Discuss what she feels is important to her in the relationship like her needs, her space and what you can do to accommodate each other with compromises and what you can not compromise on. Basically, get on the same page or you're not going to work out together.

You are telling me that you think its fine if your girlfriend/wife stays out till the next day, and doesn't notify you at any point? What are you even talking about?

I am wanting to understand why since you broke up with her why are you concerned?
I agree with you. As I have been saying she wasn't compatible for you--leave her for somebody that is into that lifestyle of not caring. You care find somebody that cares enough back.

Might I add, since I want to make sure that you guys know where I'm coming from. These are events that occurred prior to the main one we are discussing:

After an argument one night, she told me she would go to her sisters house. She left, but
When we spoke later she was at some guys apartment (two of them alone) smoking weed...

Cries at least 2-3 times a week, regardless to the issues (money, work related, etc) instead of talking about it in a way that deal with the problem she cries, and I calm her down and assure her. I am the man here and this is my responsibility, but I think to cry this often is rooted to other personal issues that even I can't resolve.

Lets people walk over her. This is at work, her family, you name it. I train her emotionally to believe in herself and stand on her two feet. Any man who loves his woman would do the same for her. I helped her find justice when she was sexually harassed at work, I could not accept that she wouldn't stand up for herself so I made her go back to work and report it. Turned out better than she thought. But she recently had a coworker throw something at the back of her head, and she isn't doing much about it...

LIED TO HER FAMILY ABOUT DATING ME, and later about living with me... nuff said
(we are of different races, although I will not mention what they are because
I don't feel that is important here)

Lied about men she had sex with before she met me... problem is we agreed to be open about who each of our friends are, and if someone is around you that you once slept with, I feel your partner at least has the right to know. We agreed on this mutually and I have been open with her when this situation turned my way.. she has not

Count your blessing that she is not with you any more and move on.

Why am I concerned? Because if we live together, than obviously I love her enough to get some outside advice on the issue before I make her move out

Oh so even though you said you broke up with her she hasn't moved out yet.
Like I said I do not think she is right for you and unless you have a long talk with her and get on the same page you are wasting your time on her. Your values are too different and I doubt she is going to change for you.
That is my advice.

You may be right about this. It's just sad that in every other way we are great, from our humor, to thinking on most things (aside from this), we've even renovated the house together, we've been though a lot, all with communication. But unfortunately I've been deceived, because she loved my morals and beliefs, and wanted to learn so much more with me about them. But I've felt now that her actions don't show that if she behaved this way

I broke up with her 2 days ago, so no she hasn't moved out yet. Her mother is still in town as we speak

Men exist on a large scale, dominant to passive. It is obvious where I lay on this scale, but on the same token this applies to women. There are dominant women, and passive women. I do not feel that where you lay on that scale makes you possesive at all. I feel
That there is great confusion with this.

I don't think you were possessive at all. You wanted a 'normal' relationship and she wanted to play more than invest an effort into making it really work.

Sorry you didn't like my post, I thought it could help, but if not Good luck.

I took in some of what you said. I just felt that you had not thought enough about the situation before stating that I was possesive. Regardless they are still opinions that I must keep my ear open to. I accept the diversity, and acknowledge that just because I feel I am right, does not mean that their aren't other points of view here.

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Originally Posted by Genuineforce

Some people really confuse old fashioned with possesive. Its funny because they can be more brainwashed than those who they accuse of this because communication and respect have NOTHING to do with controlling or degrading a woman. Not at all

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I agree with this statement whole-heartedly.

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I just felt that you had not thought enough about the situation before stating that I was possesive.

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Actually the term I used was controlling. Also, I read the whole post, and what you subsequently added.

From your initial post, it sounded as if this was a one-time thing, you did not mention that this occurred more often - just that her mother flew in for the 'occasion'. That's why I was so upset and concluded that you would expect her to give everything and everyone up for you and that you expect to know where she was all the time.

Also, I stated that if she were with other friends, I could understand you being upset.

Now that you've given us more information and this turned out to not be just a one time thing with her, then of course you've got a right to be upset, especially if you talked about her behavior and set some ground-rules and she did not respect your wishes. Maybe you could have told us about her previous 'escapades' more and then added the date with Mom later. I certainly would not have been so 'hard' on you because this sheds new light on the situation. But, the choices she makes are still her own, accept it and move on if you can't live with it.

I still feel that you expect a lot from a 4 month relationship - and unfortunately, from a woman who is not ready to be a home-body. She's going to have her fun with or without you and if you want her in your life, you need to talk and meet her half way.

Old-fashioned or not, the only control you have is over how you cope with life and what you expect, but you cannot expect anyone else to totally agree with you right off the bat.

Maybe you did fear that she was hurt or in a hospital, or whatever, but it sounds to me as if you are talking about a child who has broken rules and instead of hugging them and telling them you are glad they are OK and missed them, you tend more to punish.

I seriously don't think she is ready to settle down as much as you are, so it would probably be better for the both of you to find more compatible partners to grow with and share common goals.

My last 'partner' and I were together for over 4 years, and guess what, I never called.. and I only went out with my daughter and her friends - he complained a lot, but that went in one ear and out the other because I felt that this was his problem, not mine - and I don't drink. I went out regularly with her once a month before she became a mother and is now concentrating on a new chapter in her life. He went out once a week to get drunk, and that did not bother me either - unless he got sick and missed the toilet because I was the one who had to clean up after him. Needless to say, we are no longer together.. and I'm sure you'll find the right person for you too.

Good luck.
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Originally Posted by talaniman

Actually the term I used was controlling. Also, I read the whole post, and what you subsequently added.

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Lets not get "technical" just so you can make yourself look better. I think anyone who read your advice can see what you meant, controlling/possesive come under the same umbrella and neither apply to my situation.
Thanks anyway, and good luck with your 30 year illusion

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Originally Posted by Chery

From your initial post, it sounded as if this was a one-time thing, you did not mention that this occurred more often - just that her mother flew in for the 'occasion'. That's why I was so upset and concluded that you would expect her to give everything and everyone up for you and that you expect to know where she was all the time.

Also, I stated that if she were with other friends, I could understand you being upset.

Now that you've given us more information and this turned out to not be just a one time thing with her, then of course you've got a right to be upset, especially if you talked about her behavior and set some ground-rules and she did not respect your wishes. Maybe you could have told us about her previous 'escapades' more and then added the date with Mom later. I certainly would not have been so 'hard' on you because this sheds new light on the situation. But, the choices she makes are still her own, accept it and move on if you can't live with it.

I still feel that you expect a lot from a 4 month relationship - and unfortunately, from a woman who is not ready to be a home-body. She's going to have her fun with or without you and if you want her in your life, you need to talk and meet her half way.

Old-fashioned or not, the only control you have is over how you cope with life and what you expect, but you cannot expect anyone else to totally agree with you right off the bat.

Maybe you did fear that she was hurt or in a hospital, or whatever, but it sounds to me as if you are talking about a child who has broken rules and instead of hugging them and telling them you are glad they are OK and missed them, you tend more to punish.

I seriously don't think she is ready to settle down as much as you are, so it would probably be better for the both of you to find more compatible partners to grow with and share common goals.

My last 'partner' and I were together for over 4 years, and guess what, I never called.. and I only went out with my daughter and her friends - he complained a lot, but that went in one ear and out the other because I felt that this was his problem, not mine - and I don't drink. I went out regularly with her once a month before she became a mother and is now concentrating on a new chapter in her life. He went out once a week to get drunk, and that did not bother me either - unless he got sick and missed the toilet because I was the one who had to clean up after him. Needless to say, we are no longer together.. and I'm sure you'll find the right person for you too.

Good luck.
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You are right, that I didn't mention the previous issues with her originally. After some of the initial feedback I realized this, and saw how important it was to explain what built up to this being a bigger issue for me. Its most certainly not about controlling or changing your partner. However, when they have repeatedly went against values that you mutually agreed upon when starting the relationship, you have the right to be upset and even end a relationship because of this. This is how I feel.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Actually the term I used was controlling. Also, I read the whole post, and what you subsequently added.

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I can see right through you, and I'm sure some others here can as well wheather they
Keep it to themselves or not.;)

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Genuineforce, Lets not get "technical" just so you can make yourself look better.

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I don't have to look better for you, or any one else. I got mine, you need to get yours.

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I think anyone who read your advice can see what you meant,

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You don't have to agree with me, thats up to you.

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controlling/possesive come under the same umbrella and neither apply to my situation.

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Not when it comes to interacting with your fellow human being it doesn't and knowing the subte differences could help you in the future.

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Thanks anyway, and good luck with your 30 year illusion

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Hope you get the illusion you deserve also,