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In 1950 I was sold 7 acres from Mr. Jones' 70 acres. I received A Warranty Deed at that time.
In 1984 Mrs. Jones did a quit claim deed to her grandson from an old deed that still included my 7 acres. Since she did not have the right to transfer the 7 acres... who owns the 7 acres? And is there any paperwork that has to be done to get my 7 acres off that deed that may be used again?
I have no idea why... but my sense is that this is homework.
Is it?
Nope- not homework.. wish it was. People take old Warranty Deeds and reuse them without updating them to take property off they don't own anymore. I am guessing I would need to try to have the grandson do a quit claim deed?
Deeds have to be recorded, so did they try and record the quit claim ? They can't file it, since the deed you recorded made you the owner. So you sue to clear up the deed, and Mr Jones has to pay for your attorney, since they gave you a warranty deed.
Of course did Mr Jones have the right to sell, did Mrs Jones sign the warranty deed if her name was on it
Did YOU record your deed in 1950? If you did, you shouldn't have to be concerned about what someone does with an old and void deed. If you aren't sure, go down to city hall and look. You can look at anyone's.
Yes, old copies of deeds mean nothing, only the recorded deeds are the valid ones. I could write up a deed on any property in town, does not make it valid.
Thank you very much for your quick responses! I value any info you can give me... There are so many issues with this deed it is unbelieveable. I own the 7 acres and have the separate deed for it from the 1950's, AND I also own 20 acres behind it, and I have a deed from the 1930's for that. Can I just combine them and make-up a new deed showing the 27 acres as one?**As you can tell... many, many issues with this deed.
Hello m:Quote:
Originally Posted by monicamj
Given the "many" issues you have, I'd hire a real estate attorney.
excon
I agree with Excon but I see no point in combining the Deeds.
Ran out of money trying to "fix" everything. Where can I get a copy of the "Title Report"? The Real Estate Lawyer/Settlement Agent/Title Researcher is not cooperating with our request to see it? We need to see what "exceptions" he may have put on it.
My Husband & I bought the 27 acres from the person that combined the 2 deeds into 1. They actually just "made up" a deed with land on it that belongs to the neighbor, and not including land that should have been included. I am guessing it is a very good idea that we bought Title Insurance at closing! Who else would I get to see the Title Report? The Real Estate Lawyer/Settlement Agent/Title Researcher is not cooperating in showing it to us? Thank you very much for helping me. AND, yes, we kick ourselves every day for not getting it surveyed before buying!
Hello again, m:Quote:
Originally Posted by monicamj
The Title Report is NOT public property. You CAN'T get the report. Look. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that your PRESENT problem stems from you NOT having legal representation from the git go. You didn't do it right then. If you want to FIX it, I'd hire somebody who KNOWS what they're doing.
I LOVE doing legal stuff myself. I'm pretty good at it too... But, what makes me REALLY good, is that I know the difference between stuff I CAN do, and stuff I better NOT do. But, that's just me.
excon
I'm confused here. You seem to be saying two things. You seem to be saying that someone sold you 27 acres in 1930. But that those 27 acres included 7 acres owned by Mr Jones. In 1950 you then purchased those 7 acres from Mr Jones for which he gave you a Warranty deed. Is that correct so far?
It also sounds like when you purchased the 27 acres, you paid for Title Insurance. Did you file a claim when you found out 7 of your acres belonged to Mr Jones? If you paid for a title search, you are entitled to a copy of it.
You also never answered whether the Warranty deed for the 7 acres was recorded.
Frankly, this is a mess, but the Title Insurance policy should pay the costs of straightening it out.
Assuming you recorded your deed when you bought it, there is absolutely no reason for you to worry about it. The 1984 deed is not in your chain of title. The grandson, when he ever tries to sell his property, will have a problem selling the 7 acres that he doesn't own, but that isn't your problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by monicamj
Who's title report? When someone purchases property, he or she normally gets title insurance from a title company. If you got title insurance when you bought the property, chances are that the title company's copy cannot be found. You would have to buy a new one. There are options to get a title report without insurance; that might be cheaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by monicamj
I am so sorry if I wasn't clear. I had put down 2 scenarios, and was confusing. Yes, in 1952 the deed for the 7 acres was recorded. Yes,we paid for the title search- having trouble getting to see it from the lawyer that prepared it though.
You are totally correct, we did it wrong all the way! This was our 1st land purchase, and we were full of wide eyed optimism. We couldn't imagine anyone being unethical and sell us something that wasn't as described. And, we are paying for it now.
Many Thanks to all of you. I appreciate all your comments and suggestions.
I know that we are in for legal battles trying to save our land for years to come. I do have owner's title insurance, so hopefully that will help with some issues. We do have a Warranty Deed also, but the seller fixed it so "if" anything is in public records the Warranty Deed will not cover it.
Well that is what Title Insurance is for. The Insurer guarantees clear title and the insurance covers the costs of any expenses involved in defending that title.Quote:
Originally Posted by monicamj
A warranty Deed states that the seller warrants (or guarantees) clear title. If there is any "gotcha" then its not a real Warranty deed.
So what are the true facts? Did you purchase 27 acres of which 7 were not the seller's to sell? And then purchase those 7 or what?
**I appreciate all suggestions and interest you all have given this. First of all... let me say, My husband and I kick ourselves everyday for not getting it surveyed. And, we will never use the seller's attorney to handle all the paperwork. We will never make that mistake again. In 2006 we purchased 27 acres,and on one deed. In 2010, we found out the driveway was not on our property, the fenceline was not on our property, our deed was basically "made up", it had property on there that was not ours & that property was on neighbor's deed also,(4 acres belong to the neighbor) did not give us right to access out to the road. Back in the 60's someone put a fence up around entire property, including the land not belonging to the property and no one caught it, or fixed it. Everyone went on their merry way, until some outsiders (my husband and I) came in. All of a sudden, we have people from all sides sueing us for easement rights, adverse possession, "landlocked" property,and recently -sueing us for trying to put a driveway on our property- civil suit in process.
Yes- the Warranty Deed is not a Warranty Deed. The person knew just how to word it so he is not responsible for easement, right of way, and anything "that can be found in public records".
We did purchase Title Insurance at closing... but the lawyer neglected to submit the paperwork for the insurance. He knew of all the issues when he finally sent the paperwork to us... he had put exceptions to everything that we have going on. UGH.
We are attempting "unmarketable" title. Or no right of access to/from land. But we don't want to lose the land. Any suggestions on another route to take?
We went to a lawyer for a consultation.. he said he would not even begin to help us without $3,500 up front.
Yes, I know we are up a creek without a paddle, anyone want to throw me a paddle?
Here's your paddle. You get together and sit down with everyone who is involved in this mess. All of you come to an agreement on where the new property lines will be. All of you share in the cost of a surveyor to survey the property and prepare a new survey showing the new, agreed-upon lot lines. All of you share in the cost of obtaining municipal and/or county approval of the new lot lines. All of you share in the cost of filing the new map, preparing and filing of new deeds.
Yes, it's long and involved. Yes, you're going to have to get other people to agree and cooperate with you. Yes, there will be some costs involved. But all of that is far faster, easier and cheaper than hiring an attorney and suing everyone.
One more thing... go back to the attorney who originally represented you in the closing and tell him he'll be handling this on behalf of everyone involved, at a reasonable cost, if he wants to avoid a malpractice claim.
Good luck.
LisaB4657-Thank you for the wishes of good luck. The Lawyer that is stalling on helping getting the information we are requesting IS the lawyer that did the closing. He was the title researcher/settlement agent/seller's lawyer all rolled into one. That Lawyer and the Seller together will squash us transplants from MN to AL. Oh, and he was just made District Judge. The neighbor that owns our current access in/out, and the neighbor that is now sueing us for the land that we are trying to use to put in a new access in/out are older gentlemen that have lived in this area all their lives and do not believe that Yankees belong in Alabama. Both of them have made it their personal mission to chase us out. And- it looks like they will win.
We are trying "unmarketable" title at this point. Wish us luck on that! We will be the loser in all this.. but I don't see the older gentlemen ever leaving us alone.
MonicaMJ
Hello again, m:Quote:
Originally Posted by monicamj
If you lay down for him, he NEVER will. If it was ME, I'd fight like HELL. I HATE to get ripped off. But, that's just me.
excon
Quote:
Originally Posted by monicamj
Which is it? Did you buy the property in 1950 or 2006?Quote:
Originally Posted by monicamj
Do you honestly expect expect him to have kept a title report he did in 1950? That was more than 60 years ago!Quote:
Originally Posted by monicamj
Through searching public records we found that when the Warranty Deed was compiled over 65 years ago someone making the deed put land on there that did not belong to the deed, took land away that did belong to the deed. We found that there is 4 acres on our deed that is also on the neighbors deed (through public records it is determined to be the neighbors). The driveway we thought was ours isn't, leaving us with no access in/out. We neglected to do a survey, for which we kick ourselves every day. At this point, how do we do the claim against previous owner? Thanks for all suggestions. -MonicaMJ
This matter is the subject of this thread.
You are going to have to find some money, period.
You can't 'file a claim' as you ask in your new post.
If you know you bought title insurance then you know the insurer, so contact them first.
Title insurance and a title SEARCH are two very different things. It sounds like the search was never done or was done improperly.
Second, hire a lawyer, or face the consequences for your mistakes as well as all the other people involved. Get an equity loan or a reverse mortgage since you sound 62+.
Even though I totally confused everyone with my questions/issues.. Thank You very much for the help & answers.
No,I don't think the title search was done thoroughly either as I found all this conflicting information regarding the property on my own. Someone made a comment to my husband that we should leave things be the way they have been for years as we may not like what we find... gosh, was he ever right. I have turned it all over to the Owner's Title Insurance company to help us. --MonicaMJ
A warranty deed states that the seller warrants that the title to the deeded property is clear from encumbrances. If the seller did not tell the truth, then you sue the seller.Quote:
Originally Posted by monicamj
Oops. I didn't mean to "agree". :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
If the warranty deed was executed 65 years ago, I believe the statute of limitations would have long since passed.
The original Warranty Deed was invented that long ago using the wrong description of the 26 acres. In 1965 the children of the owner transferred it into their names using the same Warranty Deed description. Everything went along fine for many,many years, no one challenged the fencelines, layout, dimensions. In 2001 the children sold it using the same deed description. The buyer did not verify its contents. In 2006 he sold it to us using the same Warranty Deed description. We did not verify its contents either. Now, in 2010 the deed is being challenged (a civil suit has been filed stating we are trespassing when we tried to put a driveway in) and we have found many errors which are all found in public records. We know we are bobble heads for not verifying it when we bought the property. (we sure learned the hard way that a survey must always be done) We bought Owner's Title Insurance, I hope they can work this out so we can keep our property.--MonicaMJ
Ah. Now we are getting somewhere. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by monicamj
It looks like you may have several separate boundary issues, but if someone is suing you over the driveway, it seems to me that the one boundary issue you need to address is that. So, with respect to the area upon which you want to put the driveway, was it used by you or your predecessors, as though it was your own, for all of these years? If so, you probably have established title by adverse possession.
Regarding title insurance: you got insurance on your 2006 deed? The insurance company should defend you (hire a lawyer for you).
The neighbor across the street decided that from our fenceline(20' of land, & 50' of state of right of way) to the road is his no matter what anyone says, so is suing us in circuit court for desecrating his property. Yes-I am serious.
I have sent the paperwork for the driveway dispute, and also that someone can claim ownership of our property to the insurance company. I am hoping to hear from them soon.
It's hard to envision what you are describing without a sketch, but it appears that you may have a similar defense against the neighbor across the street. Notify the title company about this issue too.Quote:
Originally Posted by monicamj
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