My 92 year old grandmother and my parents live on 2 acres in Silvana Washington. They received a letter from their next door neighbor on Sept 25 sataing that he was going to remove my Grandmother's barb wire fence because it was a danger and is unsightly. It is not on or even near his property and the fence had been there 37 years. Within three days, He not only ripped out the fence, but he stole it. This action cause grandma to be hospitalized because they thought she was having a heart attack, due to the trauma.
The Police said it was a civil matter and would do nothing. My parents went to the courthouse and were told they could file a restarinig order but it probably wouldn't be issued, so they didn't file one.
We are unsure of what to do next. This is going to kill Grandma, and give my dad a heart attack
This neighbor also tore down other neighbor's fences without having to pay any retribution
We need advice on how to handle this bully. Can we prevent him from doing this again? Can he sue us if his children get hurt by falling into our Barb wire fence, if we replace it? Can we make him pay for it?
Thanks,Tracy

The new high tensile smooth wire fences are easy to install and supposed to be safer for animals and people (tetanus from the rusty edges)
Since your fence was 37 years old the depreciation would make it essentially worthless as far as suing him.
You can be found liable for an injury to him even though you are not at fault, like if he was injured while tresspassing on your property. But defiant tresspass, meaning he was notified you did not want him on your property, maybe posted no trespassing signs, and he came anyway, then you could countersue him for causing whatever financial damage to you that he is suing you for, in which case only the lawyers actually benefit.
Being a jerk is not a criminal offense, maybe upsetting your grandma to the point of her needing medical attention would be, there are laws against abusing elderly people.

Ok, you sue him, ** you needed to get the restraining order the day you got the letter, along with a answer to them to stay off your property.

So you get the est for a new fence and sue them in civil court.

Also who cares what the police officer says, most barely graduated high school, they don't know the law, talk to the DA and file charges for tresspassing and theft.

Barb wire may or may not be allowed within city limits for fence today.

A lot of stores don't even sell it any longer, it's considered archaic
anyway the law would mke her whole, meaning she'd be entitled to another 37 year old rusty fence or it's estimated value, not a brand new fence?
I would talk to your insurance agent and let them go after him.

Do you have any proof that the neighbor was told to not touch the fence? If you do, then you have a cause of action against him for willful trespass and damage to personal property. If he did this to other neioghbors, then get together will all those neighbors and file suit together against him.

Thanks for your reply. The barb wire is legal because it was once used for a horse and it is in the country. They no longer have the horse, but may one day, so they wanted to keep it up! There are "no trespassing" signs, because this is not the first encounter with this neighbor. He didn't like the signs and stole those a awhile ago, Mom replaced them and has pictures of his wife spraypainting them. We would love to see him stopped !

a fence is considered an improvement to your property, even taxed as part of your real estate value

The fence was also an exhisting property line, now we have to hire a surveyor to re establish a line . He destroyed any evidence of a fence being there. Can we send him a bill for that?

No you can't send him a bill, but you can include the costs in your suit.

Ok so we can put up a fence, whether barb wire or otherwise, we have no trespassing signs and we have proof that the neighbor was told on a previous occasion to stay off the property, and not to remove or do damage to the property. What's to stop him from doing something else?Is filing charges against him with the DA our best option in lieu of a costly law suit?

Yes I think that kind of thing he could be arrested and have to post bail and would have to defend himself, you would not be in charge of that the cops would be, you would be a witness for the prosecution. But if he is convicted or even if he's not then you could sue him yourself in civil court or small claims court to get a jugdement

This is my grandma/parents as well as tracy 271's.

This has been going on for almost 3years now. This is definitely the worst it has been. There have been numerous letters back and forth between our parents and these neighbors AND then an attorney.

All of this is occurring in a rural zoned area of Snohomish County Washington. So there is no dispute pertaining to the fence or what kind it should or should not be. I copied all of the RCW codes for our parents AND the neighbors so perhaps they would 'get' that they live in COW COUNTRY!! No such luck...

Unfortunately they like to use their children as an excuse for their own ineptitude. They think that by threatening danger to them that it will force our family to remove the fence. I can tell you without a doubt that myself my brother, 3 other grandchildren & 6 great grandchildren have grown and are growing up around that same fence... GUESS WHAT?? Here I am 40 years later, without injury or missing limbs because of it. Let me make this point, they DO NOT WATCH THEIR CHILDREN! My question to them was if they were so concerned about their children’s safety then perhaps as PARENTS WHY DON’T THEY WATCH THEM BETTER! Mind you the youngest is about 8 so there is no good reason for them (kids) to not understand that they should stay off the fence!

There are pictures of them vandalizing the property, letters of harassment, responses by us AND an attorney. Now we have documents of EMS, Dr. and Hospital stays for grandma. EVERYTHING has been documented.

Now I ask you this WHAT JUDGE IN HIS RIGHT MIND WOULD NOT ISSUE AN ANTI-HARRASSMENT/RESTRAINING ORDER AGAINST THEM??

It is my opinion that we need to get an attorney that doesn’t care what it takes to kick a$$ and take names while doing it…no offense meant to any of you attorneys out there. You know what I mean though, my brother, myself/husband & my sis-in-law would be there fighting this battle for them but we can’t because it’s not our property…and unfortunately you can’t file this on ‘behalf of ‘ them.

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Originally Posted by wildandblue

Being a jerk is not a criminal offense, maybe upsetting your grandma to the point of her needing medical attention would be, there are laws against abusing elderly people.

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Hello tracy:

But trespassing and stealing ARE crimes. Plus, there is a civil remedy as well. I would hire an attorney to sue the neighbor, AND to get the police OUT of the doughnut shoppe and INTO their cop cars to DO THEIR JOB!!

excon

One more tidbit, the attorney that they "have" told them in June of 06 to file a restraining order NOW he says they probably won't get one..? HOW DOES THAT MAKE ONE FEEL??

Aren't there laws in place to keep your property protected?? Anyone can destroy your stuff, and steal it... So because I don't like the color of my neighbor's house, I can repaint it for them?? Where is it going to stop?? This man is a Bully , pure and simple, but I bet if I punched him in the face, I'd be the one going to jail!!

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello tracy:

But trespassing and stealing ARE crimes. Plus, there is a civil remedy as well. I would hire an attorney to sue the neighbor, AND to get the police OUT of the doughnut shoppe and INTO their cop cars to DO THEIR JOB!!!

excon

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You are correct on that!
The police however CAN'T do anything because of it being 'civil'. There is no order against these people so at this point their (officers) hands are tied. I talked to the Sherriff that responded on the 28th when the fence was torn down. Unfortunately he got there AFTER it was gone, I was standing there looking at it piled up in their (neighbors) utility trailor while I was talking to him and I asked him to come get it back. He said he couldn't because they don't now who's it "legally" is. I understand that BUT I wanted to know how to get it back. He said I could ask for it back and if he refused, I could tell him that it would be included in our lawsuit.

No, while part of it is civil it is also criminal, things can be both, not either or. It is civil in that they owe you for the damage. It is criminal since they did criminal tresspass ( going onto your property to steal fense)
It is destruction of personal property ( tearing the fence down) and stealing or theft, for taking the fence off your property onto thiers.

And you did not talk to a "sherriff" the real sherriff does not go out on calls, you talked to some deputy that may be making 10 dollars a hour with no health benefits ( some areas more, others a lot less)

The neighbor could also be charged criminally, for receiving stolen property,

As noted, stop talking to low level police, talk to either the real sheriff or the DA. In some states, such as Georgia you can file your own criminal charges in court also.

You are correct it was a "Deputy Sherriff" my bad...
There are MANY things about this that are both. There needs to be an answer first as to who's property is who's. It is being surveyed on Monday. (the neighbor did actually remove the original boundary line markers)
I think that this has caused so much confusion to our parents/grandmother that none of them can think straight. That would be why my sis-in-law and myself are here asking for advice.
I personally would like to see criminal charges filed against them first. Then go to civil if they can.

And removing property markers is also a crime if you want to go to that also

Here's what you do...

You find yourself an attorney. Your attorney will arrange a meeting with the district attorney to file criminal charges. In addition your attorney will file a lawsuit for the property that was stolen and destroyed, and for "intentional infliction of emotional distress".

I like the way you think Lisa!

You go girl... that is exactly what it is!

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Originally Posted by tracy271

I like the way you think Lisa !!

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LOL! (Nobody tell them what I do for a living!)

The only problem that I can see is that, if this fence was indeed on a property line, it's a jointly owned fence and the other neighbor has a right to take it down if they want. I think. I know at least that both people get to pay for it. If it's not on a property line, then everyone else is right.

I know this sounds weird, but I was file a complaint for theift he did steal your fence and I would make him pay for what he did, but I'm just angered by this

Actually the fence was put in roughly 35 years ago by my dad and uncle. That property was vacant until about 8 years ago. Even the attorney had said it was our families fence.

If it's on the property line, it doesn't matter who put it in, it's jointly owned. Which always makes things difficult, because neighbors don't always agree on what type of fence, if it needs to be repaired, etc.

I don't know what happens if there is a joint fence and one party wants it up and the other party wants it down. I would think that the law would be that the fence comes down, and then the other party could erect one inside his property line if he wanted to have a fence between them.

Oh... and to answer some of your original questions... if his kids fall and get injured by the fence, he can sue. Especially if that fence is on the property line. (I'm still confused about that, because you have said that it's both "establishing the property line" and "not even near his property". It can't be both.)

But, assuming that it's not on the property line and this neighbor is a big jerk for doing this. Why is this disturbing so much that your grandmother is hospitalized? It doesn't sound like this fence was doing anything right now, so you sic a lawyer on him and let it get hashed out in court. And you want to go criminal... vandalism, trespassing, theft. Because, as has been pointed out, this fence just wasn't worth that much if you try to recover the damages in civil court.

Hi froggy. The fence was what was thought Granma's property line along an easment shared by many neighbors. The neighbor removed the property markers, along with the fence. There is another barb wire fence along the side of the property directly connected to the neighbor's yard, but that one has not been touched.(YET) The neighbor has torn down other fences and also wanted another elderly neighbor to remove his trees. This elderly man was even pushed by this crazy neighbor! He has since moved, and no wonder!!
It is a case where This man feels as if he can do what he wants without repercussions. Removing signs and fences, spray painting others, letting their dogs loose to run around. My Poor Grandmother is so worried about what could possibly come next, that she isn't sleeping. She built that house with grandpa 37 years ago!! This is a woman that took care of him for over 25 years after he was paralyzed. She is a fighter, but this had really been detrimental to her health and well being. She is suffering, because of this "man"(and I use the term loosely). All she can say is, "I looked out and saw 5 men tearing my fence down!"
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 330 FEET OF FENCING!! She pulled up her blinds and they were ripping her fence out.
It's disgusting, disheartening, and just plain sad, That this strong woman's life will end with this bs.

Ok, I hate to be harsh here, but enough whining. You have been given some good and specific advice about what to do.

So now go and do it.

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Originally Posted by froggy7

If it's on the property line, it doesn't matter who put it in, it's jointly owned. Which always makes things difficult, because neighbors don't always agree on what type of fence, if it needs to be repaired, etc.

I don't know what happens if there is a joint fence and one party wants it up and the other party wants it down. I would think that the law would be that the fence comes down, and then the other party could erect one inside his property line if he wanted to have a fence between them.

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Just to clarify a bit, this is Rural property not a residential neighborhood. It is zoned as such and is acreage. I thought that the laws on a "legal Fence" varied by state, county, city etc. Especially in the zone they live in. I know there are specific RCW's for them to follow because of being farmland and there originally was livestock.

As my sis-in-law (tracy271) explained, this is not even a fence near his property. It runs along an easement owned by someone else.

He did actually remove the fence behind him that is someone else's and it does contain livestock currently. The other neighbor had to replace 220' of his fence line so he wouldn't lose animals.

It boils down to this, How do we make it stop? Regardless of who "owns" the fence who's "property line" etc... this is a situation where a bully has moved into an area where the people have all lived for ever. He wants what he wants and he OBVIOUSLY will do whatever he can to make everyone else's lives miserable to get it. Even send a 92 year old woman to the hospital.

What I find the most disheartning about this is that those people have 3 children... guess what they are seeing, hearing, learning... just our next generation of bullies, I guess they should be proud as parents. Sadly even in everything else grandma agrees with that.

Post closed, obviously the OP is not listing to advice and wants to whine and whine about poor me.