Thanks excon, I couldn't remember the exact process to check for a forwarding. I figured the PO would tell them.
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Thanks excon, I couldn't remember the exact process to check for a forwarding. I figured the PO would tell them.
Wasn't the movie called... Pacific Heights?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello brady:Quote:
Originally Posted by brady628
Yeah, I'm old.
excon
Yes, Pacific Heights... OH, I've seen that movie several times - so dumb and naïve are we!! :)
I met the gas man today & he turned to gas back on & I went with him to light pilots & check the furnaces & thermostats. I didn't go anywhere he wasn't there & left when he left because I don't want any more burglary charges trying to be filed against us. The house still had a lot of furniture in it & their dog.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
Since they turned the gas off yesterday & are having the electric turned off Friday (I'll check to see if they had it moved up), can I assume abandonment on Friday & change the locks? Can I do it because the gas has already been shut off?
Even though they have items in the house, they appear to not be sleeping there. Beds are without linens and even mattresses on the floor. The kitchen looks cleaned out, but like I said, I didn't go through anything to verify whether they are living there or not.
Also... they have not forwarded their mail yet and when they do we would have to subpoena the post office for their address. How else can you get it?
I like this idea. The PO definitely won't just give this over the phone. Where are on the envelope would you put "address correction requested"?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Maybe I should post a new thread about where to go from here?
No, keep the thread here. I think if they have shut off the utilities and moved out their belongings you can change the locks. Make sure you have proof the house was emptied and statements from the utilities.
They have stuff there still. But, I will have proof of utilities showing that I took over gas today & Friday will take over electric.
My husband believes they are going to leave a few remaining items to "look" like they haven't vacated so they can delay us renting so it will financially hurt us while we pay for 2 places.
Today their dog was there, but tonight when we showed the house, the dog was gone. I believe they are still moving stuff, but are no longer living or sleeping there.
If I have both utilities in my name by Friday, isn't it fair to say they cannot be living there without utilities? If there are remaining items, I'll hold them until they pay the rent.
Don't you think a judge would believe they have abandoned the property when they are no longer having the utilities on?
They emailed me back late today and said they have not vacated & have not abandoned the property, but will NOT answer my questions about what date will they be out, when will they pay rent, & how will I get my keys/garage door opener back.
Of course, I also said "So you are intending to live there without heat or hot water since you already had the gas turned off?" And yes, I got no answer to that either. Would a judge buy that they are living there without heat or hot water (by choice - they scheduled the shut off) in the middle of winter?
Here's your problem. Arbitrarily changing the locks can cause you a problem. So you want to be very careful there.
You said you served them with a pay or quit. I would follow through on that and go to court for the order. When you go to the hearing show the judge what is going on and he may give you permission to change the locks.
Hello again, O:Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange2008
You can't hold their property. That's called stealing, and they'll call the cops on you again.
You should NEVER, EVER be a landlord again.
Plus, I told you to stop talking to them. You didn't listen.
excon
Okay, you have a point. I will follow through & ask for permission to change the locks if they have stuff remaining there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
HOWEVER, I believe the house will be bare by Friday night - if the house has nothing in it & I have the utilities in my name and their mail has been forwarded, then could I assume abandonment & rekey the locks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Excon, I am showing the house & giving them 24 hr notice EVERY time I'm showing so they have NO cause against us. So, this is why I still have contact!
Our lease also states that if I try to communicate with them for ANY reason and I cannot get them to respond, I have cause for eviction. Just trying to prepare and show that I made reasonable efforts & they failed to respond to me.
And there is NO option about being a landlord again. We own the property and in this economy it isn't going to sell for months & months. We cannot afford 2 properties. So, we will be re-renting the property. And I will be much more careful while also re-writing some of our lease to cover issues that have come up here.
The truth is, our house is immaculate and these people were just plain crazy! See for yourself: http://tulsa.craigslist.org/apa/1007882980.html
I wouldn't be stealing their stuff IF they abandon the property. I guess I just cannot "hold their stuff" is what you are saying without following the below!!
It states "If the tenant abandons or surrenders possession of the dwelling unit or has been lawfully removed from the premises through eviction proceedings and leaves household goods, furnishings, fixtures, or any other personal property of an ascertainable or apparent value in the dwelling unit including property classified as exempt from a landlord's lien pursuant to Section 133 of this title, the landlord may take possession of the property and give notice to the tenant, demanding that the property be removed within the dates set out in the notice but not less than fifteen (15) days after delivery or mailing of such notice, and that if the property is not removed within the time specified in the notice, the landlord may sell the property at a public sale. The landlord may dispose of perishable commodities in any manner the landlord considers fit. Payment by the tenant of all outstanding rent, damages, storage fees, court costs and attorneys fees shall be a prerequisite to the return of the personal property. For purposes of this section, notice sent by certified mail to the tenant's last-known address with forwarding requested shall be deemed sufficient notice.
So, if they do not have the gas or electric on & they are no longer sleeping in the house, doesn't that qualify as abandonment? If so, isn't rekeying a standard procedure for an abandoned property?
If the property is abandoned, then why can't I make a prerequisite of the return of personal property based on payment of outstanding rent and anything else not covered by the security deposit? Isn't that what this is saying? Am I reading this wrong?
I will continue the process of eviction, but I'd like to be able to get someone else in the house before the end of the month.
I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm trying to understand.
Here's where you need a witness. Go through the house with a video camera and a witness to attest to its accuracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange2008
I would also contact your local housing court to see what they would accept as proof of abandonment.
Thanks! Will do!
Thanks excon for the compliment. This is why the situation is just so weird and so odd why they were making so many claims about the house - that we weren't providing heat and it wasn't habitable. That's why I said they were CRAZY!
Okay, here's what I got today: We will completely be out by Monday Feb 9th. We are going to send your key and garage door openers through certified mail. We only got one key, as your husband only gave us one initially and we never got another, but we do have the two garage openers to forward to you.
Now, I don't want those items sent certified mail - I should have them asap. Can I demand that?
And the power will be shut off the 6th. The power & gas will be in my name then. They are NOT living there. Do I wait until the 9th then?
I wanted to show the house on Saturday - open house. This will delay any potential of renting it this weekend. They are just dragging their feet.
Check your lease and local law. It might compel them to have a final walkthrough. If so, you can tell them that they need to meet you at the property for such a walkthru and the handover of the keys. You may have to wait until the 9th for this walkthru. In the meantime you are proceeding with the eviction order.
If they refuse to have the walkthru or if there is nothing to compel them to, respond that you will take possession of the property on the morning of the 9th (since they said BY the 9th).
TELL them also, that you are having an open house on the 7th. Any possessions of their's still in the property will be placed in the garage or some other part of the house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
Wait - I'm re-reading the lease again. Here's what it says:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...possession.jpg
Doesn't this say that I can take possession of the premises at my option for failing to pay the rent? I mean, if so, can't I justify the fact they have no heat, no hot water & no electric as of the 6th and therefore, go ahead & change the locks because they are no longer occupying the residence? And especially, since they receive the Notice to Pay or Quit and I gave them 3 days. They haven't been living in the house since the 2nd for sure (the same day they got notice).
I could still do the walk-thru with someone on the 6th with a camera and show they are no longer sleeping/living there. Then, I'd move their possessions to the garage (since they have the openers) and they could easily come & remove those items at any time but NO longer be able to get into the house. What do you think?
Today they had the water turned off and the trash container is still sitting by the street after yesterday's trash (they set the trash out Tuesday when they picked up their dog). It is obvious they aren't living there.
I have an appointment for tomorrow afternoon to re-key the house. I don't care if they think they can claim they are there because they still have stuff in the house, they have NO utilities as of tomorrow and the house is clearly abandoned.
Any further advice?? I was waiting to do this to make sure there are no big red flags that someone may point out.
I'm still hesitant about advising that you rekey until you are sure that you legally can. I would seek the advise of a local attorney, Landlord's association or local court to make sure you are on firm ground.
Hmmmm... I'm still working on this to find out! I'll let you know, but I have the locksmith scheduled for 2p. I went by the house again and it was dark. Trash container still at the street. They simply are not there! But, I will verify that I have enough to show abandonment!Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
I did change the locks. However, the locksmith came when the tenants were there with a big truck. We didn't lock them out, but allowed them to continue to get their stuff out. I knew there was no way they would be there over a weekend without power, water or gas. We came back later that night & the house was cleaned out (except for their mess and a few remaining items I guess they left for me).
We were there all day cleaning - overall not terrible. A few minor repairs will need to be done, but no major damage. There is a smell upstairs which we cannot figure out what it is, but we thinking carpet cleaning will end that.
They left a small air hockey table & desk so I'll notify them & put them in storage until the end of the month.
Now, I'm planning on taking them to small claims. I'm putting all the charges together, but do I wait until I rent so I know the exact amount? Is there anything I need to include besides rent and cleaning (per the Appendix in our lease).
Do I also report them to the credit agencies? Before or after court? And who should I use for this?
Also, who do you recommend for future background checks?
Wait until you find a new tenant. So you have all the costs. I wouldn't bother reporting them to credit agencies, but if there is a landlord association in your area, I would report it to them and they should also be able to recommend someone for background checks.
Will do! I also wonder how to access for damages. For instance, in the kitchen, there is cosmetic damage to the faucet along with finger nail polish on the tile/grout/cabinets/counter there. There is also a burn mark on the master vanity from a flat iron on white countertop.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
Faucet Before: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...cet-before.jpg
Faucet After: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...CARROLL119.jpg
You can see where they have literally "picked off" the black on the handle & finger nail polish is on that & the tile/grout behind. This is not a cheap faucet - Home Depot price is $719.10! GROHE Ladylux Plus Faucet, Stainless Steel and Black - 33759KD0 at The Home Depot
I took a picture of the damage on the counter in the master bath, but it didn't turn out well. I need to take another one. Where there is other damage like blinds, I can easily just get a replacement cost for it when I make the purchase, but how do you access damage to items like this where they still function.
What a beautiful faucet, how disrespectful.
I don't have any legal advice on the matter, just wanted to tell you what a beautiful home you are renting, although I could only see a bit of it.
Thanks! Here's the listing... UPDATE: BERRYHILL, 2700 SF 4/2/2 w/ Study, Backs to GreenbeltQuote:
Originally Posted by Justwantfair
That is beautiful. Do you rent it furnished? I would think that $775 deposit is not enough, especially after all this trouble. Protect yourself and the home.
You may be right! I agree that the deposit is probably too low. I'll talk to my husband about it. We do not rent it furnished.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justwantfair
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