I own a condo in Florida which I rent out. I submitted an application to the board but they will not tell me why they rejected my tenant. Are their any condo attorneys who have actual case law regarding this issue.
Thank you in advance
Hank
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I own a condo in Florida which I rent out. I submitted an application to the board but they will not tell me why they rejected my tenant. Are their any condo attorneys who have actual case law regarding this issue.
Thank you in advance
Hank
Hello h:
I can't imagine WHY you submitted your tenant application to the board for approval... Or, maybe I should be surprised that you GAVE the board final approval over YOUR tenants...
That's because they have NO incentive to approve ANY tenant you submit, and EVERY incentive to block all of them. Your vacant unit doesn't cost THEM any money.
So, being as you don't sound like a guy who gives away his rights, the first place I'd look is whether they actually HAVE the right to approve of your tenant... That would be in your by-laws. Me thinks, they don't.
excon
It is in the by laws that I have to submit an application.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, h:Quote:
Originally Posted by helpisneeded
Bummer. Does it also say they have to TELL you why they rejected your prospect? Does it mandate the criteria the board should USE for evaluating your tenant? If not, I don't think they're violating ANY laws. You just gave 'em powers they SHOULDN'T have, In my opinion.
excon
If they did a background check it's possible that the board found info which it is not comfortable disclosing to you without the consent of the prospective tenant.
If a SECOND applicant is turned down, then I'd consult with an Attorney.
I did a background check and the applicant has never been arrested. They never contacted the tenant.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
Are their any condo attorney's who know the answer to my question and have case law?
No, not that I know of. If you want that detailed a response you will have to retain an Attorney.
The fact that YOUR background check turned up nothing doesn't mean that THEIRS turned up nothing. I do background checks - and that happens all the time. Depends on who is doing the asking.
I have no idea what case law you are looking for - you signed (apparently) an agreement with the HOA and that ageement is a binding contract. If it says they have to give you the info, then they have to give you the info.
If it says they don't have to give you the info, then they don't.
First, you were asked what the by-laws say about renting your unit.
Depending on what it says, you may be able to sue the board for the rental you have lost if they arbitrarily rejected your tenant.
My background check was done by Law enforcement so I cannot figure out what they could have found that I could not have found. The condo Docs do not stipulate that they do or do not have to tell me and that is why I was asking if anyone had case law.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
By laws say nothing. The Docs only state that an application has to be submitted.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
I cannot prove they arbitrarily rejected my ternant because they will not give me a reason and that was the basis for starting this post. What is the law in Florida and does anyone here who is a condo attorney have case law. If not, then can any lawyer guide me in the right direction on how to find it?
If the prospective tenant requested from them the reason they rejected their application then would they have to by Florida law tell him ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
Hello help:
This is NOT condo law. It's contract law. As we have determined, you signed a legally deficient contract. It doesn't address the particular matters that concern YOU, and THAT'S what makes it deficient...
There's NOTHING you can do about it except to SUE and have a judge determine WHO'S rights should be sustained - yours or the board..
Although your by laws are deficient in one respect, let's hope they aren't in another. Therefore, SOMEWHERE in your documents, it MUST tell you HOW you are to challenge a board of directors decision. THAT is the path to take. Once you have sought your remedies from the board, and been denied, you can sue.
Then YOU'LL make case law, and the next guy that comes along looking for it will have YOU to thank.
excon
Quote:
Originally Posted by helpisneeded
This is a CONTRACT between homeowner and HOA. The transaction, as such, is covered by the HOA agreement unless the terms in that agreement fly in the face of the law. I don't see that.
Not everything is governed by statutory law. As pointed out, unless there is a specific law that addresses this issue and I doubt if there is, then the contract governs. HOA bylaws are notorious for this type of thing. But since you voluntarily agreed to those by-laws by purchasing the condo, you are stuck with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
The HOA by laws do not have a provision listed anywhere and that is why I am asking the questions about what is Florida law. I have read through the entire HOA Docs and I also went on line and read through every amendement.
I agree with you when you state that when a person purchases a condo they agree to the by laws. But since it does not state in the by laws that they do not have to give me a reason for turning down my applicant or even have anything written in the by laws on why they would turn down a tenant, that makes it very subjective and the board can turn any tenant down for any reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
I see since there are no condo attorneys on this site I will contact a few attorneys in the area and see if they have any case law.
Thanks.
I cannot believe that an attorney in the state of Florida has not had this problem and filed a lawsuit.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I would be shocked if I do not find any case law. If by some chance I do not find any case law I will be the first so you can thank me now for what I am doing for you in the future. It will not be as big as Roe V Wade but it will help a bunch of people in the future.
I don't understand why anyone is suing anyone at this point - which is the only reason you need case law.
I'd write the condo board a letter DEMANDING to know why the tenant was rejected. State that this is NOT covered in the by-laws, therefore, the by-laws which THEY wrote undoubtedly to favor them and you DEMAND to know why your prospective tenant was not acceptable. Give a time frame ("If I do not hear from you within x number of days ...") and send it registered, return receipt.
It would appear - if what you say is 100% correct - that the contract is silent on this issue and thus open to YOUR interpretation - which is "tell me why".
I see nothing in Florida law that addresses this either way. Let the condo board find it and give it to you and you can post it - if they can. Why do the work? Let them do it for your benefit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by helpisneeded
I can believe that there is no case law on this - it would not appear to be an every day problem and would be expensive to try (which is the only way to make case law). My guess? Every HOA has different rules and regulations and even if you DO spend the time and money and create a new law (and I have no idea what that would be) every situation is different.
No, I don't see it happening - and I work in the legal field.
I also don't see such a "law" helping a bunch of people - people can be helped if they read what they sign before they sign in and closely look at what might/would/could happen - and protect against all eventualities.
What you don't seem to understand is that American culture was founded on the premise that fewer laws are better. Also that you signed a contract and unless that contract violates your rights, it stands. Finally, HOAs are notorious for this type of dictatorial behavior and they get away with it. Part of the reason for this is suing them is counter to your interests since it costs the HOA money which means they have to charge higher maintenance fees which cost you money.Quote:
Originally Posted by helpisneeded
So I would be very much surprised if you do find case law on this.
In the state of Florida a condo association has 30 days to respond to questions submitted by a unit owner which I sent registered receipt requested. Those questions you mentioned were asked. They are on the clock.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
Scott, I understand a lot more than you think. The reason people do not file a lawsuit against a HOA they live in is because they cannot afford it. We have 500 units in my place so I would only be responsible for 1/500 of the bill. The board then has to explain to 494 other unit owners why the maintenance went up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
Quote:
Originally Posted by helpisneeded
I wouldn't believe this until I read the agreement - if 494 other unit owners are surcharged for YOUR legal difficulties, what makes you think they'll be angry with the HOA and not with you?
Doesn't the HOA have an Attorney on retainer? Or living there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by helpisneeded
I find all sort of sites discussing HOA in Florida but I do not find this particular "law" - I find it in other situations but not in a situation where someone is denied and the info is refused the owner.
Would you please give your source so I don't continue to give incorrect info?
What source would you like me to give you?Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
A letter will be put at everyone's door explaining what the board refused to do after this is over. The HOA does have an attorney.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
Quote:
Originally Posted by helpisneeded
You were looking for case law - I would like to see the case law or a Florida law that gives this time frame in your situation. I cannot find it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by helpisneeded
Well, quite frankly that should get you sued unless you stick absolutely to the facts - and at this point I'm not sure you know what the facts are.
Are you looking for a new person to take over or continuing to push for the original person?
Can you cite that law or is it in the by-laws?Quote:
Originally Posted by helpisneeded
And, who do you think other 499 are going to be angry with, the board or you? Even given the law exists. It just means they have to respond, it doesn't say how they have to respond. So ti could be like this:
Q: Why did you reject my tenant application
A: The by-laws do not require that we explain the reasons for rejection.
This complies with the law that they have to respond but doesn't help you at all.
See my post #24 - and this is also in the category of "who cares" where other tenants are concerned (I'll bet).
People have enough problems of their own - they don't need to be dragged into this situation.
Florida Statutes 718. You will find condominium law.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
I always stick to the facts. Have to find a new tenant. He needed to find a place to live.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
I expect that type of answer. Now we go back to the original reason why I started this post. Case law and Florida law on this topic. If none exists I would go forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
Quote:
Originally Posted by helpisneeded
I read it - I cannot find the part of it that you referenced. Please point me in the right direction.
You should have read it more carefully. I thought I found some help for you in 718.111 12(a)6 along with 15(b) & (c). 12(a)6 requires the board to maintain the minutes of any meetings and 15(b) & (c) requires that any unit holder can request access to the minutes it be made available within 5 biz days. However, Section 15 goes on to exclude; "Information obtained by an association in connection with the approval of the lease, sale, or other transfer of a unit. "
So that appears to blow you out of the water by giving the Board the right not discuss any info involved in approving the lease.
They cannot give out information on someone who is APPROVED. It does not say anywhere they cannot give me the information if someone is denied.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
Valid point. Which means the law doesn't address the issue.
2. When a unit owner files a written inquiry by certified mail with the board of administration, the board shall respond in writing to the unit owner within 30 days of receipt of the inquiry. The board's response shall either give a substantive response to the inquirer, notify the inquirer that a legal opinion has been requested, or notify the inquirer that advice has been requested from the division. If the board requests advice from the division, the board shall, within 10 days of its receipt of the advice, provide in writing a substantive response to the inquirer. If a legal opinion is requested, the board shall, within 60 days after the receipt of the inquiry, provide in writing a substantive response to the inquiry. The failure to provide a substantive response to the inquiry as provided herein precludes the board from recovering attorney's fees and costs in any subsequent litigation, administrative proceeding, or arbitration arising out of the inquiry. The association may through its board of administration adopt reasonable rules and regulations regarding the frequency and manner of responding to unit owner inquiries, one of which may be that the association is only obligated to respond to one written inquiry per unit in any given 30-day period. In such a case, any additional inquiry or inquiries must be responded to in the subsequent 30-day period, or periods, as applicable.Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
2.? Cmon, did you see how I listed the cites? That's how you list a cite so someone can find it. There are dozens of paragraph 2s in section 718!!
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