Ask Me Help Desk - Is a pressure balance valve required for a hand shower on a whirlpool tub top?

We installed a whirlpool tub in our master bath with a Grohe Roman Tub Filler.(25 506) I went for the model with separate hot and cold handles (no temperature control or pressure balance) because it could fill the tub much faster (30+ gallons). The filler also has a hand shower with an internal check valve operated by a diverter on the spout that we will use mostly for cleaning the tub.

The plumbing inspector failed the installation because it has the hand shower and no pressure balance valve. Our town in NJ uses the National Standard Plumbing Code. Is there an exception for this that the inspector could be overlooking? Note that there is no shower enclosure and the hand shower is mounted on the tub top along with the hot and cold faucets and spout. At this point all of the tile and marble top are installed and it will be a major hardship to replace the tub filler. If there is no exception in the code, can you suggest any options.

Thanks in advance.

In my area we work off the Standard Plumbing Code and I can find no reference to a section that mandates a pressure balance valve if a hand held shower's involved. Got to be a local code or you got a inspector that's got a thing for pressure balanced tub/shower valves.
I can see no difference between a hand held shower and a shower raiser and shower head. They both work the same. What reason did the inspector give for wanting a pressure balance valve? Regards, Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by epg84

The plumbing inspector failed the installation because it has the hand shower and no pressure balance valve.

Are you sure he didn't say or mean you needed a vacuum breaker on the shower hose for the hand spray?

If he's requiring a pressure balancing valve, then one can be retrofitted to the existing valve set, but you will need to access the connections made below the tub deck.

Hopefully you made the apron detachable -- If you didn't, you should do so, you will need future access to the pump should it ever burn out and you will also want access to the hose for the hand held shower -- These hoses are notorious for hanging up on things in the tub void and also for loosening up.

First of all, thanks for your replys and advice. I've learned a lot here just from reading the threads - you guys know your stuff.

The failure sticker the inspector left says "need temperature valve on hot water". I was not here when he came and assumed that he meant the type of single handle valve that limits the maximum water temperature and monitors cold water pressure. It will maintain about the same outlet temperature if there is a change in cold water pressure so that you don't get scalded if someone flushes a toilet.

Tom: the main difference between the my setup and a shower head on a riser is the application. If you lose your cold water while standing under a shower (and you are very old, very young or infirm) you could get badly scalded. The only way to use the hand shower I have is to litterly hold it in your hand. If the water is too hot you just point it away from yourself.

Growler: The pump and shutoff valves are accessible through a hatch at the end of the tub opposite from where the fixture is. I made sure that there is nothing that the shower hose can get hung up on. It isn't possible to put a hatch near the fixture. If I ever need to get at it I'll have to go through a sheetrock wall from an ajacent bathroom.

If the plumbing codes that you guys are familiar with do not mandate pressure balance (or tempering or shower safety) valves then I'll start look at state anad local ordanences. If push comes to shove I could put an inline pressure balance valve near the shutoffs as Growler suggested, but I'd really rather find a way to convince the inspector that he is being too conservative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by epg84

First of all, thanks for your replys and advice. I've learned a lot here just from reading the threads - you guys know your stuff.

The failure sticker the inspector left says "need temperature valve on hot water". I was not here when he came and assumed that he meant the type of single handle valve that limits the maximum water temperature and monitors cold water pressure. It will maintain about the same outlet temperature if there is a change in cold water pressure so that you don't get scalded if someone flushes a toilet.

Your inspector wants a 'Thermostatic Tempering Valve' installed -- And it will have to be accessible for maintenance purposes.

While rarely enforced, this goes back to a decision agreed upon by the big three code writing authorities (IPC, UPC and SPC) back in 2000 -- And has been included as a code requirement in all subsequent editions of their respective codes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamgrowler

While rarely enforced...

I recently learned that the inspector that came to our house was actually a construction official from a neighboring town that was covering for our regular plumbing inspector who was on vacation that week. Was he being unreasonable or too conservative by enforcing this? Do you think it is worth speaking to our plumbing inspector to see if he will overturn the other guy's opinion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by epg84

I recently learned that the inspector that came to our house was actually a construction official from a neighboring town that was covering for our regular plumbing inspector who was on vacation that week. Was he being unreasonable or too conservative by enforcing this?

Well, that depends; Stick a meat thermometer under the tub filler while running just hot water -- Is it in excess of 120 degree's?

If it is, this likely explains the correction notice.

Quote:

Do you think it is worth speaking to our plumbing inspector to see if he will overturn the other guy's opinion?

If the correction notice adds a significant dollar amount to the project (and this does), then it is always worth challenging the decision -- I once had a Plumbing inspector call out a specific R value for pipe insulation in a heated crawlspace, the material cost for replacement was in excess of $2000.00 with a comparable labor cost -- I went over his head and challenged the correction notice and succeeded in having it overturned.

Inspectors are kind of clannish, though, so your regular inspector may side with the other inspectors decision just on general principle.

But, like I said, if it adds significantly to the cost of the project, then it is definitely worth your while to challenge the decision.

And if your H/W temperature is in excess of 120 degrees and the regular inspector agrees to reinspect, then turn it down to 115 degrees a day or two before he comes over to reinspect.