I'm in extreme anxiety waiting for our city wastewater investigator to come out and verify whether I have a break in my lateral connector to their main sewer in our street. The city ran a camera down our street and said our connector looked bad, but can't verify it until they come out to our house. We got the letter last Friday and it may be a week before they come out. They test by flushing a dye down our toilet and watching to see if it flows through their main pipe at the manhole. We are responsible for this repair. In the meantime, I keep trying to be optimistic! We do not have any plumbing problems in our house. We cleaned (have a commercial snake) our basement line (12') just last month and ran hot water through the lines for 10-15 minutes. If we had a break at the connector, wouldn't it have flowed back?

We're told that excavation would have to be done in order to replace the connector. We're not looking forward to seeing a bill for digging up, repairing, backfilling, replacing the street and possibly sidewalk!

If you're referring to the city raiser that connects your sewer line to the city sewer then it's the citys responsibility. The raiser's on the easement between your property line and the main. Rule of thumb! If the problem's on your property them it's on you but if it's in the easement then the city pays. Good luck, Tom

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speedball1

If you're referring to the city raiser that connects your sewer line to the city sewer then it's the citys responsibility. The raiser's on the easement between your property line and the main. Rule of thumb! if the problem's on your property them it's on you but if it's in the easement then the city pays. Good luck, Tom

---

That was my first thought when I read the letter from the city. Some plumbers in our city say that it is the city's expense and others say I'm responsible all the way to the main line in the street. I would have to read the municipal code again. I wasn't sure what I was reading the first 2 times I read it! The letter I received from our Wastewater Management quotes it:

"Building sewers shall be maintained by the owner of the property served thereby" and "the maintenance and protection of privately owned piping, including building sewers and fittings, whether located in or upon public or private property, is the exclusive responsibility of the owner thereof." (Then they go on to state I will be faced with legal action if I don't repair by July 20, 2007.)


A plumber who lives in my neighborhood said that the connection was at the main city-owned street sewer line and he would have to excavate if he did the job. However, the letter from the city, to me, interprets differently: "A routine television inspection of the city sanitary line indicates that the private sanitary sewer connection within the property line of.. . Is broken". My initial thought was that it was a break within our property line, but a telephone conversation with the investigator said they run the camera up the street and only look at connectors and (if their quess is right), the bad connector belongs to us.

We do have a 6 foot easement on the front of our property. I've seen neighbors in our community who excavated their yards to replace their lines, but haven't found anyone who has encountered this with the city. I think the city would be very happy to have us pay for work they are responsible for! I do know that the city has been very concerned about the aging of the sewer lines. We've had several breaks in the main lines in the past 5 years.

Building sewers shall be maintained by the owner of the property served thereby" and "the maintenance and protection of privately owned piping, including building sewers and fittings, whether located in or upon public or private property, is the exclusive responsibility of the owner thereof."

That don't sound right and I bet a good lawyer could have a lot of fun with it. Does this mean that you're responsible for the maintenance of the city main at the point your sewer enters it? Where exactly, in relationship to the city main, does your property line end? Regards, Tom

Speedball is so right. That municpal codes is saying you have to pay to maintain something that's not your and not on your property. That's not right. Their routine inspection is done from within their main and can't see into your riser or your pipe unless they took a SeeSnake down there with them. . If they can see it they likely own it.

I may as well say that I live within Denver, CO. I can't find any other wording than what I quoted above in their municipal codes and also the rules & regulations of the Wastewater Mgmt. Their investigator called today and said they'd be out to test next Tues. Groan -- another weekend to go through wondering! However, we are optimistic because the investigator told my husband that he was still looking at the records and thought it possible the bad connection could belong to our next door neighbor. We are on a cul-de-sac and the neighbor's line would meet the city sewer line in front of our property. We called the neighbor to warn him and now he gets to be upset too -- saying, "Well, they can just call my lawyer!" I don't wish the worst on him, but hopefully the bad connection is his and not ours because he can much more easily afford the lawyer and maybe repairs! He takes trips all over the world and we stay home, working on all our do-it-yourself projcts. Actually we're very happy solving all the problems that come up with owning this house for the last 36 years. We have never hired a repairman of any type since my husband is very mechanical. We used to own a commercial HVAC company and knew the Building Department people, made friends with electricians, plumbers, etc. who would guide us in repairs (and we helped them with their heat/air conditioning!) This time, we know no one because sadly, all these people have died. It's a helpless feeling dealing with this since it's a repair we can't make.

I'm one of the directors in our Homeowner's Association and I hope to have good information to present at our meeting next Tuesday. Hopefully, I won't get attutude of "Oh well, those things happen", "You have to comply with City code," etc. etc. It seems no one challenges anything these days. Our neighbor sure didn't care until we told him that the City is after him next! My husband and I plan on being very polite and accommodating to this wastewater inspector at this point. But, I'm arming myself for a fight. It's also time for us to start making complaints to the city on things we've let go. The biggest is a big "sink" in the midde of our cul-de-sac because the city replaced a water line value and didn't fill it correctly. We're wondering if that, plus the 33,000 lb.(empty) trash and recycle trucks can be causing problems in the street.

I'll keep you updated. Thanks for responding -- I feel less alone against the giant monster comng at us!

"We do not have any plumbing problems in our house. We cleaned (have a commercial snake) our basement line (12') just last month and ran hot water through the lines for 10-15 minutes. If we had a break at the connector, wouldn't it have flowed back?"
If there was a break in your raiser it would depend if this were a small crack of a complete break as to the effect it would have on the discharge.

I'm still attempting to figure out how you got involved in this hassle in the first place. What brought the city onto you property?

"the investigator told my husband that he was still looking at the records and thought it possible the bad connection could belong to our next door neighbor. We are on a cul-de-sac and the neighbor's line would meet the city sewer line in front of our property."

Are you saying that your neighbors raiser's on your property or that both you and your neighbor are tied into the same raiser? That don't sound right.
The city should provide a separate raiser for each piece of property to be located on that property or in the easement in front of the property line.
Please keep me in the loop and let me know what transpires. Good luck, Tom

In my area the City runs a pipe to the property line.

The property owner connects to that pipe. The homeowner is responsible from that point to the house including the connection at the property line.

I respond to approximaitly 1000 sewer back ups per year and don't dig and repair them all.
My budget is to repair about 50.

The decision to repair is based on many factors. The number of backups is number one.
The condition of the pipe based on the inspection with the camera.
The damage caused by the backups. A finished basement that has extensive damage will be fixed before a basement that has a little water on a concrete floor.
How many time has it backed up? One backup never warrants digging except in rare cases such a line that is not running at all.
Pipes deteriorate slowly and rarely just break all of a sudden without a cause such as construction on the street.
Take a deep breath and if everything is working allright relax. I get calls from people sometimes 4 and 5 times a day. Believe me that doesn't move them upon the list for repairs.
For your piece of mind her is a simple test. Take the cleanout cap of in the basement.
You shouldn't see standing water. If it is holding water then you have a problem and if you let the City know they will respond.
If you don't see standing water have someone flush a toilet and watch the water go by the cleanout. If it rushed by without incident you don't have any worries.
For information about cleanouts check some of Speedballs posts. They are very informative.
Good luck

Speedball asked how I got involved in this hassle. My immediate response when my husband came up to me with the letter from our city wastewater management was, "I don't believe it -- that's something thrown at us because I just appealed our property assessment!" He doesn't believe that. I've been suspicious I revealed a corruption in that area. Well, actually I know I have and I wrote a letter to that affect. I'll deal with that after we get through this!

Speedball also asked, "Are you saying that your neighbors raiser's on your property or that both you and your neighbor are tied into the same raiser? That don't sound right."

No Speedball, we have separate connectors and raisers. I wish I could draw a picture instead but will try to explain. We're on a cul-de-sac, which is a straight stretch ending in a circle. Our property is the longest, being mostly on the straight part, but the driveway is on the beginning of the circle. The four houses completely on the circle have very short front property lines lengths. Our house faces east, but the next house up on the circle is angled to the southeast. We can visually see, and see from the original map of our street, that his sewer out to the main line in the street will end up in front of our property. Or at least to appear to be in front of our property. Ours connector should be about 100 feet south of our neighbors, so these camera inspection guys sure don't know how to interpret their pictures.

Ken -- I wanted my husband to take the cleanout cap off and watch the water flush like you suggested. He has been sick and weak the last two days so we haven't done it. (I've never know him to throw up in the 40 years of marriage!) I'm thinking this stress is what did it. Like I said before, we've always been able to fix all problems here and make our own decisions on this house -- we're original owners.

Ken, you also asked how many times it's backed up. We had one backup 15 years ago and found roots. We try to flush the drain every six months. Like all the other homeowners around here, we rarely use our garbage disposal because that line gets clogged. Mmmm -- wish I could draw a picture again! I think what we actually flush is the floor drain that goes to the work sink and the kitchen line from upstairs.

Tuesday is the big day where hopefully we'll get some answers. If they (the city) still say we have to make repairs, we'll hire our own company to view the line. Cross your fingers and/or say a prayer for us! Thanks! One more question. We're wondering if the heavy trash and recycle trucks could be causing problems. They weight 33000 lbs. unloaded. The top of our street (in the middle of the circle) is sinking.

"One more question. We're wondering if the heavy trash and recycle trucks could be causing problems. They weight 33000 lbs. unloaded. The top of our street (in the middle of the circle) is sinking."

If the city main is being crushed by heavy trucks it would affect all the homes upstream from it. Please let us know what transpires. BTW, You can draw a picture and post it as a attachment. Good luck, Tom

I just wanted to comment this question so I could be subscribed. I am interested in how it will be resolved. Jen I wish you luck with your problem, our community has also had problems with the city doing underhanded deeds. Plumbers by the way this is wonderful and invaulable advice. 3 cheers to you!

We were ecstatically happy yesterday finding out that our sewer connector is okay. It is the neighbor I previously mentioned that has a "crushed" connector. I have given them all the information that I have gathered. I believe this neighbor feels some hope in that he can come back on the city for his problem. The wastewater investigators have been very nice and it looks promising that they would be helpful in any way they can. They said they really watch the plumbing companies that come in and do repairs. If they aren't doing the job correctly, or overcharge the homeowner, particularly seniors, they will pull their contractor's license.

Today I called our city water company and asked that they check the sinkhole in the street, which is a result of their previous replacement of a valve. Wastewater said that the drop in the street indicates a very serious problem that is dangerous and should be checked immediately. If water department doesn't response soon, we should call them (Wastewater). Wastewater also agreed that it's likely the loss of soil under the street can cause the sewer line problem and the weight of the city trash trucks can also contribute to the problem. The investigator showed us a picture he had on his cell phone of a 22-foot deep sinkhole that collapsed when a city trash truck drove over it!

I'll be writing the Mayor's office to complain about the intimidating letter we received about a possible break we were responsible for. I'll also put my 2 cents in on what I think of the municipal code that we are responsible for the connector on the main line in the middle of the street, especially when it's the city damaging the streets. It probably won't go anywhere, but I need to do it. Thanks for your input. I'll update you as to further development. Hopefully there are other people who can learn from my experience!

Your Responsibility

Jeanniel,

Glad that the problem is not at your connection, but thought this might help your neighbor. I know all municipalities have a different code, but it helps to see an illustration. I'm similarly having a problem in my home and was shocked to hear that something beyond my property line could be my responsibility!

Hi Again,

The workmen just finished up on our neighbor's sewer connection repair. We opened our garage door and sat inside to watch and learn! They dug an area roughly 4x6 feet in the street, about 10 feet out from the middle of our driveway. That's why the city initially thought it could be our connector. The street line was 12 feet deep.

Our neighbor frequently came over to stand in our garage and watch. He still hasn't told us what the work cost, but did discuss the plumbers he contacted to estimate the work. One well-known company that advertises aggressively said he would have to excavate up into his easement with new pipe. This company that he hired said that wasn't true -- his line from the connector was fine. It appeared to be an extremely efficient crew. Their only problem was waiting hours for the city inspector to come out before they filled in the hole. Since the hole was by our driveway, we were very interested in that! Even being as naïve as we are, we believe they did a very good job filling it in with small rock, a mix of soil, rock and ? And the doing the asphalt, tamping it all down well. Much time was taken to get the asphalt just right and then they cleaned up. If it had been our repair, it wouldn't have been as bad as we were initially led to believe. Who knows, we may have to have ours repaired some day and now know what to expect. I'll rethink that maybe after I find out what it cost. My husband says probably $4000. Most figures I had heard were $6000-$10,000, but this was less work than we anticipated. I'll let you know. Thanks for your interest, comments, and letting me express my concerns!

jeanniel,

Did you ever find out what the cost was for your neighbor to have their sewer line connection repaired? Also do you know what plumbing company repaired the line? I unfortunately received the same letter from the City of Denver Wastewater Mgmt this week. Thanks... Kile

I live in Wash Park and believe my line runs out into the alley... Curious if anyone else out there in Denver has encountered this issue, what the result was ($cost etc) and what company you used to have the repair done... thanks

Hi,

I am also in the Wash Park area and have been told this problem exists with my line. I am on So. Humboldt St. May I ask where you are? This is also an alley connect that is an issue. The way this is all done just seems so potentially open to fraud and abuse! We have been quoted 6500.00 to fix at this point. I am having the Wastewater Dept. redo the dye test next week as they had renters do it for them. Hopefully, the problem is that the test was done wrong... Pipeline Ind. Is the ugly quote we received so far. Wish me DH hadn't gotten them, but I was not involved.
I would appreciate any thoughts on your situation that might be helpful. Thanks!

S