My 7year old son is getting worse by the day! I'd be hear all day listing the problems I'm having with him. He steals all the time where ever I go and also from myself. Because of this I left him in the car 1 time and he took the handbreak of the car and it rolled into a wall. He's on his 3rd school at the moment, and I have to go and speak to them this Tuesday to discuss his behaviour and he's only been in the school a month. At swimming class today he was exposing himself to the other children. He refuses do to anything that I ask him to do. He once set my house on fire, another time when he was 5 he climed out of the window of the house and got on a bus and went off travelling, took everyone 4 hours to find him. I've been to the doctor many times, waiting times to see specialists is very long. Social Services are involved but to be honest they haven't done a lot to help. I've tried to ignore the bad behaviour and just praise the good, but that didn't work in his own words, "now i can do what ever i want and no one tells me off!! it's great" He started doing Tek Wan Do I thought that would help with his behaviour but he just fights with other children. He doesn't have any friends cause he's always so mean to them. I also have a 4 year old daughter and she is a little angel. I used to think it was because I was a bad mother, but they both get treated the same. To be honest I proberly spend more time on my son than I do my daughter because I can't leave him alone for a second for fear of what he'll do next. He's from a stable home, he never wants for anything, he's not spoilt with toys, he gets a lot of attention playing, doing jigsaw's reading stories. I just don't know where I went wrong with him. I'm living in ireland and there's not any summer programm's of any kind for children with behaviour problems. I've been looking on the web trying to find somewhere that he could go for the summer holidays but as of yet I've had no luck. I've tried ringing a few places in America but none of them have any programms for just the summer for his age group, there's lots of boarding schools for full time but I really don't think I'd be able to send him away full time. If anybody has any information I'd be very grateful to hear from you. My biggest fear at the moment that my little boy is soon going to grow up and I'm afraid for the his future and what he might do or become.
I've listed a lot of bad things about my son and I just want to say a few positive things about him. Even with his problems he really is a very sweet kid, I'm always getting hugs and kisses from him, he'll go and pick flowers from me. There's nothing more I love than him and me curling up on the sofa and watching cartoons. When he puts his mind to it he get brilliant grades in school he's very intelligent. I just want him to be a happy little boy and enjoy his time as a child before he has to face the world. I just don't know how to do make that happen.

It's so hard isn't it? Because you love your children SO much to see them go through this and not be able to help them. You are a good mom, don't doubt that. This little guy just may be dealing with things he has no control over.

I don't believe you have said this so, have you tried professional counseling with a child psychologist? You are in a tough, tough situation. Your son isn't acting up in the normal everyday ways that are a bit easier to deal with. This sounds like a serious situation that only a professional can really assist you with. It is possible he has ODD. Here is a bit about it, I am just guessing here, so read and see if you can identify: Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) and Conduct Disorder (CD) in Children and Adolescents: Diagnosis and Treatment. It could be a number of other things as well, emotional, stress, could be a combination of things/disorders... all sorts of things. That's the best I can think of though. See if you can start there? I do wish you the best, my prayers are with you and your family.

Sorry I had to spread the love Tawny!! Are we twins? Do we share the same brain? Before I even realized that this post was answered I was most definitely thinking ODD or CD, then lo and behold I scroll down and there you are with almost the EXACT same answer I was going to give. It's good to know that there is someone to pick up my slack in my absence (probably next week) and visa versa.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned Samantha, is Dad. Is Dad in the picture?

Your son most definitely needs some intense therapy before this goes much further. These disorders are precursers to something bigger and worser (is that a word?). Anyway, he most definitely needs counseling for the problems he is causing. Yes, the list may be long, but it is imperative that you stay on the list.

Do you have consequences for his actions? If so, what are they?

p.s. Samantha there is a lot of information available on the web about ODD, whether he has it or not or has it in conjunction with other things, you can find some really helpful information about how to start at home trying to manage it. I am sure at this point you are willing to do just about anything so you may find some helpful things you could start right away (which are good suggestions anyway with any rebellious child) until you can get professional assistance.

Hey thanks for the replies.

Yes I have considered that he possibly has ODD, CD, ADHD or ADD and I'm sure there are loads of other things he can possible have as well!! But as I said before I'm in ireland and to be honest the health system is terrible over here. Every time I take him to the doctor it costs a lot of money, I know money shouldn't be an issue but I just can't afford to take him to these professionals. I've been waiting on an appointment for the 'mater child guidence' the only place you can get help from professionals fre of charge for about 18 months but I haven't even got a date for an appointment yet. I got in contact with social services to see if they could help but all I get is a visit every now and again and that's it they can't even move me up the list. I am trying to save money at the moment to get him help but he has an allergy to nuts ( well at least we thing he does) He's come out in a lot of rashes and one time his breathing was very bad, there's only one doctor in the whole of ireland that does allergie testing and that's looking to cost me around € 1500. Also I have to get more tests done because he still wets the bed every night of the week, sometimes even twice in 1 night. They have ruled out any infections and he's been tested for diabities (excuse the spelling) but because this has been going on for so long about 3 years he now has to have other tests, again more money!!

As to his father, his biological father well he's the scum of the earth, I was very young when I met him is was a bit older than me, at 18 I got pregnant it was planned, but then I thought I was in love etc etc etc. He left me when I was 5 months pregnant for another girl. When jack was born he was around a little bit but then disappeared. When jack was 4 1/2 after hundreads of phone calls begging him to see his son he finally agreed ( worse mistake of my life) but after 6 months he wasn't interested any more. He started missing the days we had arranged. He would only take him once every fortnight and he couldn't even make them. Jack was getting so upset he would pack his bag on the Tuesday or Wednesday ready for his dad to pick him up and then for him not to show he was devastated. So I actually left a message for him saying for him not to come around until he could learn to keep his promises, and I haven't heard from him since, that was about 2 1/2 years ago. Sometimes I think I shouldn't of and seeing his dad sometimes was better than not at all but I couldn't see his heart break one more time. A very important thing is is father had another son with a new girlfriend and jack actually misses him very much. He doesn't offen mention his father but his brother does come up from time to time. At first I lied and said that daddy was working but about 6 months ago I told him the truth. Obviously isn't wasn't the whole truth but I explained that daddy couldn't come around and see him anymore, but he still had me and his sister and martin ( my boyfriend) I made sure he knew it wasn't his fault and that I was sorry but there was nothing I could do to make his daddy come and visit him. He didn't really make much of not seeing his daddy. When he would take him for the day ( and as in day I mean once a fortnight from 1pm to 6pm, so half day really) he mostly got other members of his family to look after jack anyway. I tried talking to them but they said they weren't going to get involved and it was up to lorcan ( his dad) to decide what he wanted to do.

But in saying that martin is only really a step dad but he's always there for him jack will call him daddy sometimes and martin on others, they get on really well. We both take turns with being the goodguy/ badguy. Apart from DNA martin is his dad. I know that not seeing his dad is proberly one of the main problems but there's not anything I can do to make him be a good father to his son. I can take him to court to get support from him which I do get on a weekly basic but no judge can order him to be a father.

Sorry I've gone on and on haven't I!!

So at this moment in time all I can do is wait on these appointments to come through.

Samantha, sometimes it is good to rant, so you just go ahead if you feel the need okay?

Now, as far as Jack. You say he wets the bed. This is a very common symptom of ODD.

I don't know much about Ireland, I would like to visit, but I know nothing about the government or the medical system, so please bear with me and my answers okay?

There is a gal here I went to college with, she has a son very similar to Jack. She reachd her wits end after their second home was burned. What she did, that has worked for the past 3 years at least, was got in touch with the prison system. Now bear with me here...

She arrainged for her son to visit the prison. The warden there found a prisoner who was very good at "motivating" children, boys specifically. They visited the prison wherein her son was taken, by a guard, to this particular prisoners cell. This man told the son all about prison life, etc etc... It was quite the eye opening experience for the son, and he came out with a different view on life.

This is just an example of what can be done with no money. There are creative ways to deal with this while you remain on a waiting list.

Sorry me again I forgot to say one thing about weather I punish him or not.

I've done everything that I have every been advised to do, I've even watched supernanny to try and get some tips, like when your telling them off to come down to there level, give them a warning first then the naughty step. He's been punished by not being allowed to go outside and play, or to bowling/cinema treats like that, things I know he enjoys. Then I tried sending him to him room, the trick when you take away a toy every time he's naughty and then put one back when he's good. Well after 2 days his room was empty!!
I've tried doing a star chart but that didn't work. Then I tried just totally ignoring the bad behaviour and praising the good and like I said before in his opinion that was him just being allowed to get away with everything. Any other suggestion please feel free to tell me. And on occasions he has got smacked. But that didn't work either. To be honest he doesn't really get much punishment, I stop him from getting sweet but he goes and steals them from shops or other kids. It got to the stage when I'm nearly giving up. When ever he does something wrong I sit down with him and ask him why he did it and every time it's the same response "he doesn't know". Some times I don't even bother asking and just send him to his room. I know it sounds bad but I just need him to be away from me for a while for me to calm down. It's not that I'm angry with him I'm angry with myself cause I don't know how to help him and stop him from hurting. It can also be embarrassing like when I collect him from school and all the other mothers were talking about him and when I arrive there's that eerie silence and I know they've being talking about the latest thing jack has done. As I said before I have an appointment with the school on Tuesday about his behaviour, I'm sure that will be a fun day for me, but I'm kind of getting used to it at this stage. I should write a book about all of jacks little adventures, I'm sure they would put it in the fiction section cause no one would ever believe half of the things that this 7 year old can get up to!!

Promise this one will be short!!

Both the fire station and the police station were a total waste of time. When he set fire to the house I rang the fire station to see if I could bring him down to show him the fire engines. That why he set fire to the house he only wanted to see one up close. I was told they don't do that kind of thing in ireland. ( just to clear things up I'm english and moved to ireland 8 years ago. In england the firemen and police men would come around to school once a year and talk to the schools)

A few weeks ago I rang the police station and said could I bring him down, all I wanted was for them to have a go at him try a frighten him a little bit let him see the inside of a cell. At his age it might have had some effect on him. Once again I was told they don't do that type of thing in ireland!! My number was passed on to someone who's name I didn't even get. But I was told that she deals with all the child cases in the dublin area. ( like only one person could deal with that, you'd think dublin was crime free only having one officer) anyway I'm still waiting for her call. I think I'll be waiting a while to ever get a reply.

I'll give you a laugh. About 2 years ago when he had just starting the stealing I just drove him to a police station and told them I had just caught him stealing and would they have a word and tell him that kind of behaviour is unacceptable, no word of a lie this is exacetly what the policeman said to him

" Now you dont want to be doing those type of things do you little boy"

"no" said Jack

" Good boy" Said the police man. And then the police man hands jack a PENCIL!!


OH yes that's just great, me thinking he would maybe learn a lesson from this. And Jack did learn a lesson, if he stole again and I threatned to take him to the police he would get a present!!

So you can understand that I'm going to get no help what so ever from the police in ireland.

Well, he has won his battle. He knows he has won. So what you need to do it rule out ODD or CD, or anything else that can be the cause... once you do that, then you can start to make a plan on what to do next...

If he has ODD or CD, then the simple structure doesn't work... he doesn't care, his mind doesn't work the same. And as a 7 year old, he doesn't think like me and you... he thinks like a 7 year old...

My questions... when did all of this start? Did anything else happen to him when he was younger, sexual abuse for example? Has he ever hurt anyone or animals?

It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong. His behaviors are not simple quick fixes. Here is the US we have so much at our schools, I go to district meetings and meetings with a school psycholigist all the time... but it sounds like the schools in Ireland do not have as much support with the mental health side of life.

What is social services involved for? He needs to get a psych eval. To rule out anything... and the schools needs to give him evaluations to determine if he is in the appropriate educational environment. And I would go to wherever you need to go and make them do it... and if it takes a month, that's fine... at least it will get done. It will take time to help this lost boy... he didn't become this overnight, he will not get better overnight.

Someone needs to sit down asn ask him why he does things... not just listen to his words, but really hear what he is doing and why... for example... why is he setting the house on fire... did he hear someone tell him to, does he like to see fire burn, did he want to hurt someone, did he just want to be rebellious... and why the stealing... etc...

In some cases I hear you say he is empathetic and emotional, and other times he lacks that completely. So he is inconsistent... I don't think his dad was the cause of this, but that inconsistency didn't help... so you just keep doing the best you can in the meantime, remain consistent... praise the good, all the things youa re doing. You sound like a great mom... he needs you more than ever... and he will rememebr that forever!

This serious behaviour started about 3 years ago and it's just got worse as time has gone on. His sister was born, his dad stopped seeing him all happened in a short place of time.

To my knowledge which I'm 99.9 % sure of he has never been sexually abused.

I am waiting on appointments with several different people for jack to be assessed. As yet it is not confirmed that he does or doesn't have ADHD ADD or any thing along those lines. I do ring them about once a week and ask if I have a date for an appointment, but there never is a date for me. He has been assessed in school a lady came out and assessed him as to if he had a learning disorder, that was on feb 19th and I still don't have the report to her findings. I'm very sure that he has no learning disorder. He is very intelligent if he just put some of that into school work and not coming up with schemes he'd be top of the class. It's just that he doesn't want to. I was given a link by another person and I've been reading through that for the past hour or so, most of it might as well be written in french for all the sense it makes to me, it's hard to understand. In some cases it soes sound like he has some of the common symptons, but then I have the decision to make about weather he takes medication. I've heard good and bad things about it. But since I don't even have an appointment yet I don't suppose I have to make that decision for a while.

He set fire to the house because he wanted to see a fire engine up close. And that didn't even work luckly I was able to put it out before it got out of control. And I wasn't allowed to bring him to the fire station. Before anyone even mentions how the hell he even managed to get hold of a lighter and set fire to a house, my lighter was in my bag locked in the kitchen. The key was above the door well out of his reach. He had thrown his jumper up over the door until it knocked the key of the ledge. Then he went up to his room and set fire to his curtains. I admit I was in the wrong I had been up most of the night my daughter was teething and I had fallen asleep in the front room something I've never done since. We had smoke alarms that's what woke me up. So we were pretty lucky.

Well, I am glad he didn't see the fire trucks... setting a fire and then giving him what he wants is not the best plan.

He does not have a good sense of reality... he doesn't seem to understand how to get what he wants, or to communicate with others without acting out.

You don't have to make a decision on medications right now... wait to see what they suggest first.

Keep doing the right things, I am sorry it is so frustrating. It sounds like in other posts you mentioned that you spend quality time with him. Keep that going... I would spend mabe 30 min. a day just sitting with him... and join whatever he is doing... and if he is playing, be like a television reporter, and just report to him everything he is doing... like you are listeing and seeing every move he makes. SEe how he responds to that on a dialy basis...
Ask him what he wants to do, and give it to him as an incentive. He should know exactly what to do, and what not to do, in order to get that incentive.

Keep up the efforts...

Ok, how is he getting the items to set fire?? Matches lighters,
If there are known problems, are not these items keep locked away.

What is the punishment when all of this is happening ? When he set the fire, on top of seeing if he can see a fire truck what else happened to him ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Samanthajane

Before anyone even mentions how the hell he even managed to get hold of a lighter and set fire to a house, my lighter was in my bag locked in the kitchen. the key was above the door well out of his reach. He had thrown his jumper up over the door until it knocked the key of the ledge.

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Thats' how Fr_.
She has also explained all the various punishments that have been used.

This may sound very simplistic, but if you haven't already maybe you can try a book called "The Explosive Child: A New Approach for Understanding and Parenting Easily Frustrated, Chronically Inflexible Children" by Ross W. Greene. It is available on Amazon.com for about $11.00 USD.

I have a 7yr old as well he has had some problems in school. I think you should just be consistant in what you do. I realize you want to help your son in any way you can but with all the upset in his short life right now I think he just needs you to do the same thing give him the same punishment. Time outs can get very tiring especially for the mom and believe me I almost gave up on them but after a while my son wanted to play more than he wanted to stand against the wall. He also has to stand perfectly still or his time out starts over again. If he won't stand against the wall right then have him lay in his bed until he decides to stand the right way. It'll take a while but if you just hang in there it'll work. And don't give in whatever you do. As with the stealing make him earn the money to replace what was stolen or have him go and return it and apologize. Say you get so much money per 10min of working and throughout a week or however long have him work it off. Oh and don't count to 3, or give him a warning your just giving him time that its OK to not listen.
Also a book I would recommend is 'How to make your children mind with out losing yours' Leman is the author I believe.

samanthajane

Have you considered Dr Phil? Dr. Phil.com If he takes on your case he can connect you with all the experts and specialists that may be able to help your son. Even if he can't personally help you because his programming is already booked, he or a member of his staff maybe able to direct you in the right path. I think it is worth a try.

Well I had a look at the website and I've e-mail them but I don't really hold out too much hope. I don't actually live in America so not sure if he'll even consider helping me or not!!
But we'll see if I get a reply or not.

I hope one way or the other you get the help you need. I really feel for you, your son and your situation.