(this was posted on a previous 91 civic problem thread... these problems sound different, so I posed a new question.. sorry about the double post)

Hi all,

Im a new owner of a 91 civic w/ 146k miles... the first two weeks I drove it, it worked fine. Then the problems...

It would start to randomly stall at lights/stop signs and in traffic (no warning.. just stall). When I could feel it coming on, I could flutter the gas and would keep it going... then a few days later, I would be driving ~70mph or so, and the engine would stop with power.. I could downshift into 3rd and it would come back up and I could go to 4th and it would work OK...

After reading a bit, I thought it might the IACV, so I pulled it and cleaned it and put it back on... the dying during driving seemed to stop, but not the stalling at lights (and it had a fairly rough idle)... I went to get a fuel filter to do a replacement.. I relieved the pressure at the filter... HOLY COW the freaking banjo nuts on the filter are on there WAY too tight (I don't think the thing has been changed in sometime).. so I give up (couldnt even crack one of the banjo nuts loose with sockets... do I need to use an impact wrench?) and put the relif nut back on the special banjio nut and was on the way to a mechanci to help with the fuel filter replacement.. when it died a block from my house.. now the damn thing will crank,and eventually when it turns over, I can gun it for about 2-5 secs (with the obvious smell of rich, unburnt fuel emitting from the exhaust).. then it dies and acts flooded... I can let it sit for several hours, and it will turn over, but not for long...

I pulled the main fuel relay, desoldered and resoldered the connections... I guess it was working fine before, because that didn't change anything...

anyone with any suggestions? I just don't know enough about this car to start running around replacing everything.. any pointers.. GREATLY appreciated

Oh well, I did reply on the other thread... but here goes again:
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Holy crap... that is a pretty usual thing that happens with hondas of that age, but everybody had a different fix for it.

For instance, cleaning the throttle body, and putting some grease in the gas cable helped my dying at the stop lights. Replacing the fuel filter cured the whole situation with rough idle. Changing the oxygen sensor smoothened out the ride.

Just a few quick questions... did you change your spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor cap and rotor? It probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

Does your ECU throw any codes? Try checking for error codes and throw them here if you don't know what they mean. We might move on from there...
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Edit: did you get your valves adjusted?

Went and got the proper tools... replaced fuel filter.. nothing yet.. still cranks but no effect...

"did you change your spark plugs, spark plug wires, distributor cap and rotor? It probably wouldn't be a bad idea."

No, not yet... I don't know when the timing belt was last serviced either..

No ECU codes...

One last thing for now... does the throttle body need to be removed to clean it with carb cleaner? The IACV was filthy with carbon deposits..

Well, removing the throttle body shouldn't be a problem, but seems like your main issue now is not being able to start the car at all.

I guess you should try and see if you're getting spark and fuel, and if you're getting both, then your timing might be badly off, or your timing belt might have snapped.

Pull the fuel rail with injectors connected to it, point it to something that will not ignite the fuel it'll squirt out, and have someone crank the car. That way you can check if you're getting fuel.

Check other posts here on honda issues and find an explanation on how to check for spark (I should really learn HOW you check for spark... I just know you SHOULD check for spark).

If you're getting both fuel and spark (on all spark plug wires), that means the timing belt hasn't snapped, since the distributor rotor is turning, and it gets turned over by the timing belt.

Then you should check if your timing is right. Do a search on this forum for "timing" and you should find my explanation how to do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CroCivic91

Well, removing the throttle body shouldn't be a problem, but seems like your main issue now is not being able to start the car at all.

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Well, it will turn over for a sec or two, but it sounds like its getting choked out... its not quite "catching" well enough to sustain... I want to say that I smell fuel in the cabin... but hard to tell other than I have been handling fuel earlier.. but the exhaust (when it does turn over) smells rich...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CroCivic91

I guess you should try and see if you're getting spark and fuel, and if you're getting both, then your timing might be badly off, or your timing belt might have snapped.

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Is the above mentioned scenario indicative of timing issue? My guess is that if I have some combustion, I should have spark (be it intermittently)... but the fuel smell coming from the exhaust when it does turn over for sec.. Valves open at the wrong time (indicating timing)? I guess where I'm heading next.. at least check it..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CroCivic91

If you're getting both fuel and spark (on all spark plug wires), that means the timing belt hasn't snapped, since the distributor rotor is turning, and it gets turned over by the timing belt.

Then you should check if your timing is right. Do a search on this forum for "timing" and you should find my explanation how to do it.

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So, from here I should check the spark, then the timing?. I tend to want to rule out the fuel issue... it smells like fuel... is there an easier way to check for fuel than pulling the whole fuel rail (understandably, you wouldn't get to look at the business end of the fuel line if you did otherwise)?

I should offer this one interesting bit of information.. I don't think it is relavant, but what do I know... the other day when it was running, and I was driving in the early morning while dark, my cabin started smelling like burnt plastic all of a sudden... so I pull into somewhere, go get a bite to eat, and now my headlights don't work. Brake, reverse, blinkers, emergency lights OK, but no console lights, no headlights... so I open the steering column and pull the light/wiper assy out to look at the problem and one of the pins between the light assy and the harness got so hot it melted... my guess is a short of somekind, but I'm not quite sure why it was localized at that point.. I would have though it would have blown a fuse.. anyway.. I don't know if its important to the current situation.. I found another cheap, but its being shipped.. just hope it doesn't happen again..

Timing was right on and the belt looked good...

I replaced the spark plugs (they looked rounded and carbon fouled)

It seems the spark was intermittent.. I took one of the spark plug wires and attached an alligator clip to it and held the other end about 1-2mm from the chassis... when I turned it over, the spark would show up, then nothing, then something..

Replaced the distributor.. it seems to have solved the problem for now.. still have to adjust the ignition timing, but I got it pretty close..

Thanks for all the help!

Nice!

Glad you made it... perhaps only a coil or igniter unit in the distributor were bad...

hello, to all!

I have a 2door civic hatch before and I got no problem with it.. till my girlfriend got preggy and I needed more space and sell it, I look and look, for cars, till I found 1, it's a 95 civic rtsi, it's a 4wd, manual tran. 120 ps, sohc vtec motor onit, and all is eletric inside, when I got the car it runs perfectly, till I notice like 2 months after I bought it, sometimes when I go for a quick gas, go to counter, comes back, start the car, then it won't start, I have sparks, battery is new, the motor will start for a few secs then it will dies, eventually after like 30x cracking it starting the car, engine starts normally and car is running again in perfect condition, till I get to my destination,it not happens all the time, its like a heart attack, that I don't know when its coming, till one day I go to work park the car, work for 8 hours comes back it was summer last year, start the car, then it won't start again, after 2minutes of trying the check engine lights up and just stop forever on,. then what the hell. I smell sometin burnd.. I call a local towing comp to get my car in honda nearby because my engine is dead I mean all is dead, so after 5 hours of waiting tow truck comes, and bring my car to a honda dealer, after a day, honda call me that they found the problem, it was the ECU that is busted it got burned so when I got there they show me my ECU box, and it was really burn, so they told me I have to get one, I ask the prise it was like 1, 300 euro, ohh man... I didn't buy it, I look for second hand ECU and find one same as what I have install it and there again my car, she's alive! Like noting happens, ECu cause me of course 200 euro,funny is I ask honda about how that it burns they can't get me a straight answer! Bla,bla,bla, in short I don't know what part,parts, of electrical should I replace, to prevent my ECu getting busted again, I'm looking for help because until now after that drama 6 months ago, my car is still occasionally no starts, I read post from crocivic, could be mainrelay, ignition coil, igniter, I'm planning to replace those three, but can some 1 help me where to look under the hood the ignition coil, igniter for my civic modell, Tnx a lot..

Hey there...

First thing I'd do is resolder the Main Relay. Your symptoms just scream "MAIN RELAY!!!". Do that first and see if it helps. Do not buy a new one, just take it out and resolder it's joints. I did that and mine is starting like a champ for 8 months now.

To answer your question about igniter and ignition coil. They are inside the distributor. To get to them, you should remove the Distributor Cap. It is a black plastic thing from which 4 spark plug wires go out of. I wrote a little HOW-TO on replacing distributor cap and rotor, so you can take a look at it - http://jagor.srce.hr/~kpuljic/honda/...tor/index.html . It should help you see what everything looks like inside the distributor, and how to remove the cap. Once you remove the cap, you will see an ignition coil on the top. Black box with 2 wires going out of it and some kind of hole on one side. Igniter Unit is "under" it, hidden behind a plastic cover, with 4-5 wires going out of it.

Anyway, do the relay first. Relay gives power to the fuel pump and ECU when you start the car... if it's joints are not soldered properly (as they are now) they might burn the ECU. Just take them out and resolder ALL the joints. Here is a text that will tell you more about it - http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/elec...main-relay.htm

Do let us know what you do, and what helped, and what not :)

Hey crocivic I know its more proper to say this in person! I really thank you! For replying to me, I hope I can do a favor in return in anways,as you say tomorrow ill start looking for my main relay under the dashboard, driver side, and examine it.I will try to work on it 1st, before the ignition coil plus igniter, I wish that's cousing me problem. You know before I'm so hopeless and just wanted to sell the car, but I'm like you I got HEART and don't want to sell a defect item to just anybody, but know you give me hope with my civic, people like you should get a free internet connection, you help so many people,. well tomorrow I got time the whole day no work, ill work on it, then ill tell you the income, tnx man!

:) I'm glad to see people willing to work on their Hondas and learn about them... I'm like that too... 8 months ago I knew NOTHING about engines, didn't know that an engine has a block and a head. Now I know a lot more :)

Anyway, I just wish everything works out fine with your Civic... it's a nice car :)

Crocivic I get a job well done today with my civic! I tink that works on me, we did it step by step today, what you told me, I roll under the dash and manage to pull out the main relay, then my friend do the work on main relay, its kind of dirty and we see the dry spot, after that I buy a brand new rotor for 15euro, and a dist.cup 25 euro, I assemble it myself! And that feels good, anyway the big test I drive like 4km and shut off the engine, counted 5 secs, then started it. it went great, I do it again and again, its perfect! Tomorrow I will park it under the heat of the sun and, ill do a test again, I hope the problem is solve by now, many many tnx to you!

:) I'm glad it works for now! Hopefully it will work well tomorrow too.

Very, very glad it went out smooth... do keep me posted about your test tomorrow!

Enjoy your ride! :)

Again tnx cro, I tink that solve the math now, anyway I'm planning to change my timing belt, but may be that's too much for me, I'm planning to change fuel filter, air filter,brake disk, timing belt, clutch disk, they have no problem but may be there aging now, and need to be change? What you tink? I notice I have to change the guskets in my motor, because moist of oil is vissible in the middle of the engine, middle where the valve cover connects lower engine,tnx cro

If your timing belt needs a change, make sure to change timing belt tensioner and water pump along with it. Because it requires no additional work once the timing belt is off.

Change fuel filter, air filter, spark plugs and spark plug wires if you do not remember when they were last changed. Have someone check your brake pads - they might not need a change if they're not squeeling. However, if your discs have never been changed - it might be their time.

Clutch? If it's not slipping - don't touch it. Only if you have extra cash and want to make it run nice and safe - then do it.

Now for the gaskets... is it a gasket between the head and the block? Because there's no gasket between the valve cover and the head, at least I didn't see one when I took the valve cover off. Try to wipe any oil off the engine, perhaps it would be best to degrease and wash the entire engine, then drive around for 1000km and check to see if there's any oil leaks.

Hey cro, sorry I'm busy the fast days, don't have time to reply, anyway since I replace the main really my civic is starting up great, hope it will last long enough, yes the gusket I'm referring is the one you mention, my sparkplugs is new irridium, and I got ngk high tension wires, its also new.anyway have a nice day keep it up!