“What is going to stop the Gestapo, I mean the NYPD, from rounding up (1)---------- people, from snatching them off the train, off the bus?”

(2)(we are )“putting this city on notice that your mandate will not be another (3) ....social distance practice” (4) .....are not going to stand by, or you will see another uprising .”
These comments were not the words of an evangelical white supremist southern yahoo . They came from Hawk Newsome, the co-founder and chairman of Black Lives Matter Greater New York

[Excluded words were (1) Black people ,(2)BLM (3)racist (4) Black People ]



What we have here is what we had last summer when masking and social distancing did not apply to mostly peaceful rioters on the streets of NY .

These comments came from a specific incident in a NYC restaurant that is almost besides the point .

Here is the reality . Blacks in NYC have a high hospitalization rate and death rate from covid . (I guess in this case Black Lives don't matter so much)They are also vaccinated at a lower rate than whites . So the mandates disproportionally impact Blacks .

Some Blacks were refused service because they could not produce vaccine papers .

Imagine what would've happened if some MAGA hat wearing hayseed had tried to get service in a NYC restaurant while not vaccinated ? Clowns on CNN and MSNBC would be reminding us all that mandates are constitutional but dining in a restaurant is not and that he should be vaccinates for the greater good.

I guess 'vaccine hesitancy matters 'not so much in this case . Who will the woke support ?

The real test will be when an unvaccinated gay, black, transgender Moslem who is president of the local BLM chapter is denied service. Signs will now read, "No shoes, No shirt, No shot, No service".

I am currently in a NY state hotel . People on this side of the Hudson mostly unmasked. Some establishments have signs like . Prefer masks ;masked "required " if not vaccinated . But no one was asking for proof of a jab.

The incident above evidently involved a confrontation with an "Asian" employee denying service and speaking racial slurs. The issue going forward in NYC and any other place that has vax mandates will be denial of service . I'm sure the issues of violation of the Civil Rights Act will be raised frequently.

I can understand a restaurant owner requiring proof of vax. I think it's a mistake for governments to mandate it.

Tom, how do you answer the argument raised by some that we have vax mandates all the time? Examples include schoolchildren registering for school or military members going overseas. It is used to suggest that the Covid vax mandate is just another manifestation of what we have had for years and seems to be a tough argument to counter.

The precedent of Jacobson v Sullivan is often quoted . But that case was about the ability of a state to FINE (ie a statutory penalty ) someone for a vax refusal and not to deny them employment or services guaranteed in the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Act. Court evolution since the 1905 decision has been to protect individual rights over state power . States have become power hungry about how they regulate new health problems and solutions mostly from what I perceive as a misreading of the Jacobson case .
I quote this caution in the decision
The police power of a State, whether exercised by the legislature, or by a local body acting under its authority, may be exerted in such circumstances or by regulations so arbitrary and oppressive in particular cases as to justify the interference of the courts to prevent wrong and oppression.

Their argument typically goes like this. "The state can deny services (education) to individuals based upon a refusal to be vaccinated, so the denial of services for a refusal of the Covid vax is just another manifestation of that same power." I don't really know how to answer that one other than to say that perhaps the state should not be able to compel children to get vaxed. In our state the latest push was to require all female students to get vaxed against HPV. I was a principal at that time and remember wondering why the state would think it was any of their business. Perhaps this is just another fruit falling from the same tree.

Like I said States have over time extended their power beyond any recognizable constitutional mandate . The Jacobson decision said the state could fine ;not refuse services guaranteed to anyone else .( equal protection clause of the 14th amendment )

But the courts have run with it using it to justify all types of outrages like 1927 Buck v Bell case that cited Jacobson to permit sterilization of the feeble minded . The decision extended the police power’s reach from imposing a fine for refusing vaccination to forcing surgery on a woman against her will and depriving her of the ability to have children because she was deemed feeble minded .As a result about 60,000 women were sterilized by 1978


Whatever the state deemed to be a threat to the general public was now ok under this interpretation of Jacobson.


And that seems to be the REAL precedence in the proposition that the state can require any medical procedure like a vaccine on anyone if the state declares it to be for the greater public good .

Now maybe in cases like small pox where the vaccine could lead to eradication of a virus a case could be made justifying such exceptions . But I have argued ,and continue to do so ,that covid will never be eradicated by a vaccine program because unlike small pox ,it mutates . It is more like the flu . But unlike the flu which is a mature virus ,covid is new and more potent . It will evolve like all other SARS viruses and be less dangerous . No one mandates flu vaccines to get a job or an education or employment .

HPV is contagious but rarely deadly .The most severe forms of it can cause cervical cancer .More often it cause warts sometimes .Most people with HPV never know they are infected and never develop any problems, signs, or symptoms related to the infection, which usually goes away on its own.

It is transmitted mostly by sexual contact which explains why the liberal education system would want a general vaccine program in schools .

It is said to be the precursor, and as I understand the sole precursor, of cervical cancer. That's the rationale that is used. And the foundation of the entire deal is the state moving in and in effect saying, "If parents won't protect their children (with vaccinations), then we will force them to. It's somewhat related to compulsory school attendance.

Precursor yeah but most HPV cases do not cause cancer .How many other precursor conditions do we mandate medical procedures to prevent ? Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the US . Are life style changes mandated to prevent it ?

Annually around 21,000 female and 15,000 male cases are linked to HPV. HPV is the most common STD with 24 million active cases and 5.5 million new cases annually .
So the cases evolving into cancer is the relative exception.

Educate kids and adults about the risks of unprotected sexual activity . Then let parents decide if their child should be vaccinated .

Quote:

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Then let parents decide if their child should be vaccinated .

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I would agree with that.

The new segregation ....

Today in New York City, roughly 72 percent of black residents aged 18-44 have not taken the vax .72 percent of black residents aged 18-44 are banned from entering dining establishments.