This is mostly for those who support Trump, although the facts being checked include Joe Biden also.

As anticipated by just about everybody, Trump's comments were filled with lies, most horribly by his description of the children whose parents can't be found by Trump's administration. Against the claim by Trump that these children are "well cared for" and that they originally arrived with "coyotes" and cartels, the facts show that Trump made up these claims out of the blue.

There are literally dozens of sites providing fact checks of the debate. So as not to be accused of slanting the facts, I'll leave it to the viewers to pick the sites they trust.

facts, in Trump's view, are the boil on the arse of progress

any bigger lie that Quid saying he never got a penny from foreign countries through his son's businesses with the understanding of a quid pro quo ?

any bigger lie than Quid denying that he called black criminals 'super predators' on the Senate floor ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

any bigger lie that Quid saying he never got a penny from foreign countries through his son's businesses with the understanding of a quid pro quo ?

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Sorry, Tom, but Biden never said that. You're changing/embellishing his comment that he never received money from any foreign source.

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any bigger lie than Quid denying that he called black criminals 'super predators' on the Senate floor ?

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Tom, this is a bad one even from you. Trump has been saying this forever even though he has been told many times it is untrue. Biden NEVER called black criminals "super predators" on the senate floor or anywhere else. It was HC who used that phrase. But accuracy was never a strong point of Trump - now you.

As an aside, the famous crime bill of 1994 was supported by many black leaders and ministers to control the burgeoning crime rate in black neighborhoods.

got me ,,,,, he only called them predators , "beyond the pale" ,who must be cordoned off from the rest of society because the justice system did not know how to rehabilitate them. He said the circumstances about how they were raised did not matter .
you aren't denying that Quid has a long legislative history of incarcerating young black men ?

I remember Clintons crime bill that EVERYBODY was for very well. To say it was just Joe is deceptive and misleading, and plain untrue, and America has a long history of incarcerating black people, which is misleading also since it's poor folks bearing the brunt of the prison thing but white people don't seem to be as vocal about this economic inequity thing.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

you aren't denying that Quid has a long legislative history of incarcerating young black men ?

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Yes, I'm denying it. See tal's reply above mine.

yes it is true that Bubba led . Quid followed his whole Senate career starting as a Jim Crow Dem . You can't deny that Quid played the hard core law and order Dem in the Senate after Dukakis lost for being weak on crime. You also can't deny that Quid led the charge to pass laws that disproportionately incarcerated minorities for offenses they should not have been incarcerated . Trump has led the way on prison reform . So like a typical Dem ,they have done another 180 and now they don't want to incarcerate anyone .....and they want to defund and in some cases disband police forces altogether .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yes it is true that Bubba led . Quid followed his whole Senate career starting as a Jim Crow Dem . You can't deny that Quid played the hard core law and order Dem in the Senate after Dukakis lost for being weak on crime. You also can't deny that Quid led the charge to pass laws that disproportionately incarcerated minorities for offenses they should not have been incarcerated . Trump has led the way on prison reform . So like a typical Dem ,they have done another 180 and now they don't want to incarcerate anyone .....and they want to defund and in some cases disband police forces altogether .

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Tomder, if you want to go back in time and criticize the events of years ago, then how about we do Trump. Do you want to review Trump's activities over the last 50 years? At least Biden had a rationale for his actions. Trump had NONE, NADA, ZERO - unless you want to count greed and the life style of a pig.

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Originally Posted by Athos

Tomder, if you want to go back in time and criticize the events of years ago, then how about we do Trump. Do you want to review Trump's activities over the last 50 years? At least Biden had a rationale for his actions. Trump had NONE, NADA, ZERO - unless you want to count greed and the life style of a pig.

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Athos he is only a reflection of the society in which he lives, so singling him out on lifestyle is meaningless

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Athos he is only a reflection of the society in which he lives, so singling him out on lifestyle is meaningless

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I'm responding to tomder who is doing Biden's past, so why not Trump's past? I have no doubt who will win.

As to your comment on US society, it's pretty broad but it does contain a sizable amount of truth. I have always felt we deserve Trump as a representative of what America at it's worst has become. I'm referring not only to his presidency, but to his whole life. The presidency has made his essential character open to everybody, but too many actually approve of his evil.

In Biblical terms, Trump is a worshiper of Mammon.

suddenly Quid's past is irrelevant . I thought we were in a cancel society where the past is never forgiven . And if we are going to examine Trump's past on racial issues ,I'll remind all that before he was a Presidential candidate he was honored by the same Black leaders who condemn him today .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Uf7CcvP7h8

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Originally Posted by Athos

In Biblical terms, Trump is a worshiper of Mammon.

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Trump is merely the high priest of his nation in this respect, nowhere on the planet is mammon worshiped more than in the USA. When you judge him you judge the nation. The one winner of the election will be mammon, no matter who the representative is this time

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Originally Posted by tomder55

suddenly Quid's past is irrelevant . I thought we were in a cancel society where the past is never forgiven . And if we are going to examine Trump's past on racial issues ,I'll remind all that before he was a Presidential candidate he was honored by the same Black leaders who condemn him today .

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Not sure what to make of this post. If it's about Trump and racism, Trump is a racist. That's an undeniable fact. For definite proof, just listen to what Trump himself claims. "I am the least racist person in this room". He has said that in several locations, bringing a laugh even to his supporters.

The definite proof lies in the fact that Trump said it. Anything he says is per se a lie. Believe the opposite and you'll be OK.

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The definite proof lies in the fact that Trump said it. Anything he says is per se a lie. Believe the opposite and you'll be OK.

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can't argue against that impeccable logic

His record on race as President . Prison and criminal justice reform ;opportunity zones ;long term funding for Black Colleges ;supporting school choice which he correctly calls the civil rights issue of this century .

Quid talks a good game . But like the other Dems ;the accomplishments never quite match the rhetoric .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

can't argue against that impeccable logic

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Meant sarcastically, but it's actually true. He lies so much that a good barometer for truth is the opposite of what he says.

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His record on race as President . Prison and criminal justice reform ;opportunity zones ;long term funding for Black Colleges ;supporting school choice which he correctly calls the civil rights issue of this century

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Trump always claims credit for programs that originated in Congress and Trump had little to do with except signing off on them, and misleadingly cites dollar figures that are far higher than the actual and sometimes are ten-year in the future numbers - a fact Trump omits to tell.

However, to the degree Trump has genuinely become involved, he deserves credit.

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Quid talks a good game . But like the other Dems ;the accomplishments never quite match the rhetoric .

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Trump is the far greater offender when it comes to accomplishments never quite matching the rhetoric.

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ten-year in the future numbers - a fact Trump omits to tell.

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You mean like when people on this board talk about the 2 trillion tax cut for the wealthy, or when Biden talks about raising taxes to raise 3.5 trillion dollars? Come on. Using ten year figures is done by virtually every pol and certainly by some on this board. It's common.

If we want to talk about lying, then take a look at Biden's ad I mentioned last week that none of the "anti-lying" people bothered to respond to. It was a lie from beginning to end.

I will credit Tal for agreeing that, in voting for HC, he was choosing one liar over another. There are things you can criticize Trump for, but complaining about him lying is the ultimate in the pot calling the kettle black.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You mean like when people on this board talk about the 2 trillion tax cut for the wealthy, or when Biden talks about raising taxes to raise 3.5 trillion dollars? Come on. Using ten year figures is done by virtually every pol and certainly by some on this board. It's common.

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2 trillion a year PERMANENTLY to people who don't need it as opposed to 3.5 trillion a year for needed investments, in jobs, infrastructure, health care during a pandemic, and state aid...DURING a pandemic. Not even a close comparison.

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If we want to talk about lying, then take a look at Biden's ad I mentioned last week that none of the "anti-lying" people bothered to respond to. It was a lie from beginning to end.

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The dufus years of daily lies are a cauldron compared to campaign lies of politicians. Not even a close comparison.

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I will credit Tal for agreeing that, in voting for HC, he was choosing one liar over another. There are things you can criticize Trump for, but complaining about him lying is the ultimate in the pot calling the kettle black.

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A cauldron compared to a kettle? No comparison between the dufus and HC OR JB! Not even close.

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2 trillion a year PERMANENTLY to people who don't need it as opposed to 3.5 trillion a year

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Neither figure is for one year. They are both ten year figures. And of course it is not permanent as shown by the fact that Biden has suggested doing away with Trump's tax cuts, some of which went to the middle class.

I can't imagine anything that scares me much more than a federal gov that gets to decide who needs to keep their own money.

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No comparison between the dufus and HC OR JB!

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You are right about that. There is no comparison. Trump, for instance, knows where he is on a daily basis.

You still have not commented on that despicable ad by Biden.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Neither figure is for one year. They are both ten year figures. And of course it is not permanent as shown by the fact that Biden has suggested doing away with Trump's tax cuts, some of which went to the middle class.

I can't imagine anything that scares me much more than a federal gov that gets to decide who needs to keep their own money.

You are right about that. There is no comparison. Trump, for instance, knows where he is on a daily basis.

You still have not commented on that despicable ad by Biden.

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I stand corrected on those yearly/decade figures but must correct you on those middle class tax rates, which would only apply to incomes $400,000 and above. You don't consider that middle class do you? Please link your ad again please.