His essence, a close associate says, is a dark swirl of cruelty, violence and fear.



Privately, the president had often talked about fortifying a border wall with a water-filled trench, stocked with snakes or alligators, prompting aides to seek a cost estimate.

He wanted the wall electrified, with spikes on top that could pierce human flesh.

After publicly suggesting that soldiers shoot migrants if they threw rocks, the president backed off when his staff told him that was illegal. But later in a meeting, aides recalled, he suggested that they shoot migrants in the legs to slow them down. That’s not allowed either, they told him.

Athos: Who is feeding you this crap? Even Trump can't think this is acceptable behavior. You don't really believe this stuff, do you? Its true that Hitler wiped his with toilet paper and that Trump wipes his with toilet paper but THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT TRUMP IS HITLER!

We are in polarized times: The majority of the people stands with the President and the minority of the people stand against him. The split is very slim.

If someone doesn't like someone, in this case the left doesn't like the current POTUS, and they want to make things up to make him look like a heathen, they shouldn't go OVER THE TOP with their stories....they can't make them so crazy that no one will believe them because they are so outrageous: The key is to make the stories "a little" fanciful and the public will more like give the story more credence.

The problem with radicals is that they can't pull back the reigns, they go FULL RETARD! YOU SHOULD NEVER GO FULL RETARD!

Its times like this where I am entirely happy to be a Libertarian! What a spectacle to behold: Its like 1973 all over again.....but this time, the POTUS wins.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

If someone doesn't like someone, in this case the left doesn't like the current POTUS, and they want to make things up to make him look like a heathen, they should go OVER THE TOP with their stories....they can't make them so crazy that no one will believe them because they are so outrageous: The key is to make the stories "a little" fanciful and the public will more like give the story more credence.

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You haven't been reading all his tweets and watching videos of his speeches?

W.G.: I have been reading and hearing the POTUS' speeches and what he has been saying.....but this is unlike any other time in the nation's history with this POTUS because he fights back really hard: The left isn't likely to take him down with this Impeachment attempt....already, Demos in the House are wavering at the notion of having to actually vote for the measure and Trump is initiating his own "Investigations", driven by the Justice Department, of Democrats.

The tables will most likely turn against the Democrats in the public arena, too: People are tiring of the constant, 24-7 demonization of the POTUS: YOU ARE TALKING IT TO DEATH....and it doesn't matter if all the stories are TRUE ABOUT TRUMP, and they very well may be true, I certainly don't know. My point is, you just don't perform WW1 tactics or Frontal Assaults on a 2019 Battlefield: its suicidal. There is a strong chance that all the attacks by the left on Trump will mean that Trump and the Republicans will retain the Presidency, keep the Senate, and regain the House come November, '20.....and, when that happens, you will look back at times right now and WISH you could return to them.....it will really get crazy then, Trump will be unhinged and nothing will be able to stop him or his agenda. You have to be careful right now because all of this mania about Impeachment will, most likely, backfire.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

...and it doesn't matter if all the stories are TRUE ABOUT TRUMP, and they very well may be true, I certainly don't know.

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Of course, the stories about Trump matter! But you "certainly don't know if they're true"! If you don't know, why do you consistently support him?

Like Trump, you have a tendency to shoot yourself in the foot with your words.

Athos: The evidence is not as strong as it needs to be in order to be absolutely convincing and irrefutable, at this point....and that is what you nee.....the left needs the hard evidence if they want to get him gone/out of office......Like it is in Boxing, you almost have to knock the champion out if you are going to take his title.....I, like you, suspect many things about him that have been asserted are INDEED TRUE, but you have to have REAL NAILS to nail him to the cross.

I am not sure that I can articulate my argument as well as I would like....and I certainly can't argue as well as you do, Athos...I find that you are very skilled at the architecture of argument and I respect that quite a bit!

I DON'T support Trump....I do point out weaknesses in arguments, as I see them....Never mistake me for SUPPORTING TRUMP.....I do support the rule of law.....and laws MUST be applied equally and unbiasedly.

I want this country of ours to get back to the fair deal, fair shake: I want parents to parent and the schools to teach and not parent.....I want people to be taught the history of the U.S., and the world, and the U.S. Constitution.....I want the Media to report the new, and not their opinions (screw the Right and the left, JUST THE NEWS, please)…..I want us to stop identifying people based upon race or any other demographic, just being AMERICAN should be enough.....I want people to come to the country legally and the system set up to accept them with open arms if they meet the criteria for acceptance.....I want the Military-Industrial Complex to become subservient to the absolute needs of the U.S. affairs on the world stage, not set the stage up for them to make more money......I want equality under the law......with NO SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS.

When I say that Trump is a hell of a fighter, just think of what I say in this context: Even BEFORE Trump entered Office, people were calling for his Impeachment.....that call has never ceased.....Trump has had to fight every single day of his Presidency against tremendous odds and an absolute barrage of daily attacks, and, even, with members of his own Republican Party and his party, with the exception of a few, have been gutless in his defense. No other President has ever faced this kind/level of pressure at home. In your heart of hearts, I think you know that the media, to the greatest extent, has been against Trump from day one....and even FOX has been questionable, at times. Even if you don't like Trump, you have to admire his capacity, his willingness, and his stubbornness to stay in the fight and not bow out....most men would have quit the within the first six months. I credit his German heritage for this incredible fortitude.

I find it amusing Vac, that a middle of the road right leaning self professed libertarian is so critical of the dems or the so called left, but not repubs nor acknowledge the wrong doing of this dufus and his sycophants. Do you always cheer for the bully taking the nerds lunch money?

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Athos: Who is feeding you this crap?

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Associates of Trump attending the WH meetings.

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Even Trump can't think this is acceptable behavior.

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Of course, he does, he said it. You're really clueless about Trump, aren't you?

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It's like 1973 all over again.....but this time, the POTUS wins.

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What an odd statement from somebody who claims NOT to support Trump!

Talaniman: No, don't like bullies.....used to beat them up...despised them.....Found out through these experiences something really odd would transpire in all this: When you beat the bully, the bully ends up getting sympathy from those in the crowd and YOU become the bad guy...in effect, the NEW BULLY! This is no joke! HUMAN BEINGS, AND HUMAN BEHAVIOR, ARE STRANGE!

I don't like bullies but I don't like gang attacks either......In the old King Kong movie, I secretly pulled for King Kong! In fights between bears and wolves, I always pull for the bear!

Somehow, in the fight between left and Right around the Trump Presidency, the left has begun to take on the role of the bully basher who is transforming to the bully....and this begins to erode the left's support and empower the one being attacked (the President).

So the left and dems should just roll over and not fight the bully? Doing the right thing often comes with an uncertain outcome.

Talaniman: No, no! I didn't say "Don't fight".....let me try and explain: I am saying this from an easy to understand historical context: The left, in order to gain more favor with the public and more credibility, should stop the WWI tactics of going "over the top" and charging-in recklessly...the frontal assaults...the Russia suicide assaults against the Wehrmacht during Operation Barbarossa. The left needs to attack more like Barr does, which is quietly and effectively....use the scalpel instead of a chainsaw! No need to use a 30-06 when hunting rabbits, a 22 cal. will do the job!

The left's heart and ambition are there....but their tactics suck!

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

...the Russia suicide assaults against the Wehrmacht during Operation Barbarossa.

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Those Russian assaults you criticize are the only thing that keeps you from speaking German today.

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The left needs to attack more like Barr does, which is quietly and effectively.

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Barr is the Chief Legal Officer in the United States and he doesn't understand the most basic premise of law. To wit: JUSTICE IS BLIND AND NO MAN IS ABOVE THE LAW.

Barr is a criminal who prefers monarchy to democracy.

Athos: Hats off to you! When you made the comment about the Russian frontal assaults being the reason we aren't speaking German, I had to smile: You are absolutely correct about that! Most people don't know it but you do......No, I won't detract from Russian bravery, that was renown in WWII.....but it probably could have been more tactically "evolved" by Russian High Command: Massive loss of soldiering when superior use of that force could have saved casualties.

I can't figure Barr out: Didn't see him coming when he gained the position. He is another character that time will tell all about, I suppose....suffice to say he is a galvanizing figure, indeed, insofar as those who hold opinions about him.

You and I agree on THE LAW: No one is above it and every U.S. Citizen should be equal in its eyes. The inequality of that exists today is so equally distributed that it can't be easily recognized anymore...it is so well camouflaged that it can't be seen: It has the touch, the feel, and smell of the fabric of society but it is no less unfair....and that also applies to the Law. I can't stand it.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Athos: Hats off to you! When you made the comment about the Russian frontal assaults being the reason we aren't speaking German, I had to smile: You are absolutely correct about that! Most people don't know it but you do......No, I won't detract from Russian bravery, that was renown in WWII.....but it probably could have been more tactically "evolved" by Russian High Command: Massive loss of soldiering when superior use of that force could have saved casualties.

I can't figure Barr out: Didn't see him coming when he gained the position. He is another character that time will tell all about, I suppose....suffice to say he is a galvanizing figure, indeed, insofar as those who hold opinions about him.

You and I agree on THE LAW: No one is above it and every U.S. Citizen should be equal in its eyes. The inequality of that exists today is so equally distributed that it can't be easily recognized anymore...it is so well camouflaged that it can't be seen: It has the touch, the feel, and smell of the fabric of society but it is no less unfair....and that also applies to the Law. I can't stand it.

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Agree with all your points.

Very true that the Russian leadership by Stalin was horrendous. He misused the overwhelming numbers he had in, as you say, suicide assaults. Zhukov, arguably, was the best General officer from all sides during that war.

Athos: I am getting the last response from you BRONZED! We agreed on something! All things are possible!

Stalin was a "thug" who thought he was a military mind/genius, never a good combination! i still think he killed Lenin and KNOW he killed Trotsky! Zhukov was pretty brilliant.....Konev was very good, too, but demonic...of course, he had reason to be given the German atrocities.

I have wrestled many years with WHO was the best General of WWII: Certainly, Zhukov is in that final paragraph of discussion, and he may very well be the greatest of WWII....but, perhaps, my favorite one of the war was Walter Model: He was a great strategist and a general devoted to his soldiers well being and he was a Nazi in name only, not a National Socialist ideologue at all...a soldier long before Nazism came to being....he also stood up to Hitler and did not participate in the innate butchery of civilians on the Eastern Front.....and, before he offed-himself, he vocalized his troubles with the ideas of the Allies, who had a bounty on him, around his participation in War Crimes...it bothered him deeply. Plus, I loved the darn MONOCLE he wore!:)

On Barr, it's been reported that the CIA made criminal referals against the dufus that was rejected on the technicality that they weren't made formally in writing. Seems that can be corrected easily.

https://www.businessinsider.com/dni-...mplaint-2019-9

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/n...tleblower-info

Cover up, or cover dufus butt?

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Athos: I am getting the last response from you BRONZED! We agreed on something! All things are possible!

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Lol. That made me laugh. Good one!

Talaniman: AG jobs are defined, technically.....but I wonder if there is not some subtle, or not so subtle, understanding that is "UNDAID" but understood: The AG is the POTUS' man. I get a feeling that is true. I certainly felt that way when Obama had AG Eric Holder. The AG is supposed to be for Law & Order BUT are they not part of the President's "Greater Legal Counsel".....It comes down to what I am told Vs. what I have seen and the paradox that exists between the two.

It could be that this whole "Legal System" at that level needs to be revamped somewhere, sometime down the road if we are going to make it completely unambiguous in terms of what the AG's boundaries are on legal matters involving POTUS.

I cannot argue with your assessment Vac, but the simple answer in my mind is that the system has become more corrupt, and that starts at the top with the dufus and surrounding himself with loyalist that do his bidding, and a do nothing congress that fears his tweets, and abrogates the designed function of checks and balances.

Nonetheless it is a constant struggle to form a more perfect union that matches the words of the constitution with action. For sure it's extremely challenging but we've come to far to quit or let a dufus stop the progress.

Talaniman: The Constitution is a "fixed"/static element.....as such, it is prone to encounter both the pressure of static friction and the pull of kinetic friction (had to throw those out as a nod toward you, for we are akin in a discipline)…..The Republic/The Union, as it is, is not a fixed object, as you have aptly indicated, and, as such, it is a always going to be a moving target for measures of improvement. I would love to be able to say that "Our work is finished, we've made the country as perfect as it will ever be" but that is as unrealistic as it is incongruent to the aims of the Founding Fathers: They knew the nation would be a continual work in progress even way back then, at its founding. The U.S. will forever be, as it was designed to be, in a continual state of renovation.....much like the road system in Atlanta......never truly completed....there is no rest for the weary!