In a ludicrous attempt to divert attention away from Trump (and cronies) connections with Russia, Trump accused President Obama of wiretapping his campaign phones. The entire world sees right through this and is further evidence of Trump's mental derangement - or at least his incredibly poor judgment.

With North Korea sabre-rattling, the country badly needs a leader who is both sane and capable. Trump is neither.

Is it time to de-presidentize Trump? I think yes.

You wish but the reality is that the first 100 days aren't over. You think BO wasn't capable of dirty tricks but every president has the apparatus at his disposal. The north Koreans are capable of making noise and little more, they want you shaking and quaking in your boots but you should remember that old movie, "the mouse that roared", the plot is remarkedly similar, expect an NK delegation to land in NY next

A wise man once said be careful what you wish for. If we dump Trump, we have PENCE, and for sure you get a very conservative agenda, both socially, and fiscally.

Hello A:

I, excon, demand an immediate cessation of all consequential actions by this “president” until we can figure out what the hell is going on..

excon

Are you making the claim that it never existed and that any proof is false ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2eu-B5ZNPs

Hello dad:

Levin mentions the FBI, NOT Obama.. That their investigation lead to Trump Tower shouldn't be surprising at all.. To think the FBI would spy on Obama's enemies is ludicrous.

excon

There are some serious allegations being tossed around by both sides involving domestic espionage and treason . I find none of this amusing . I don't see how Trump can survive this if the allegations against him are true . And I do not see any chance of him being an effective President as long as these issues remain unresolved . Hmmm sounds like a Democrat game plan.

I guess the question is which sounds crazier and /or more plausible ....That the Obama Administration sought to have surveillance on a political opponent and his campaign during a highly charged Presidential campaign; and used the narrative to weaken the incoming administration ;or that Trump is some Manchurian candidate ?

I remind you that if what Trump says is true ,it won't be the first instance of the Obots using the power of the executive dept to attack political opponents . Just because they got away with the repression of the T Party's groups through the power of the IRS does not mean it did not happen. Actually ,if the Democrat narrative is true it won't be the first time an American politician attempted to get the Russians to interfere in an American election.

https://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/te...-robinson.html

From my perspective ,it appears that since Trump made his silly weekend tweets ,you are not hearing the Democrat narrative quite as much . Instead they have gotten defensive . Where's your proof ?Who said anything about an investigation or FISA warrants ?

They've drawn blood . They got Sessions to recuse himself and Michael Flynn to resign on the flimsiest of premise . It is time for both sides to get down to governing and stop this silly pissing match .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

. It is time for both sides to get down to governing and stop this silly pissing match .

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Now there is an idea. I doesn't surprise me that BO would resort to dirty tricks after all he was a hood from the 'hood. Dump is a business man operating in a number of countries it doesn't surprise me he would have contacts. Did anyone complain about the Bush family connections with the Saudi?

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Originally Posted by paraclete

I doesn't surprise me that BO would resort to dirty tricks after all he was a hood from the 'hood.

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He's from Hawaii.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

He's from Hawaii.

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To the WH via Chicago where he was connected

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Originally Posted by paraclete

To the WH via Chicago where he was connected

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At the U. of Chicago with other professors.

Don't be niaive

Nah he was a community organizer . He was very street savvy . Like Henry II he would never "order " a "tap" .

This is how the game is played . Our government can't spy on fellow Americans without the proper court orders . The Brits have similar restrictions . So our spooks at NSA have an agreement with their spooks (GHCQ)that they will spy on Americans and that American spooks will listen in on Brits . GHCQ was listening in on Trump and his cohorts since the summer . This was not an official request from the Justice Dept.It was more likely an unofficial request from either DNI or the CIA . Last spring the FBI concluded there was nothing of a criminal nature happening at the Trump campaign . The Obots immediately asked for a NSA warrant and were denied . They asked for one again in late October /early November before the election. I do not know if they were approved . The NY Slimes confirmed that information was being collected overseas by our allies .

The thing is ;whatever the Brits handed over to the American Intel agencies ;IT CANNOT BE USED UNLESS THERE IS CLEAR EVIDENCE OF WRONG DOING . In this case there is a deliberate circumvention of the procedures . This is the information that was leaked to our press and was used by the Dems in hearings of Flynn ,Sessions and others .

To add to the mystery .... just hours before herr Donald was sworn in ;the head of GHCQ ,Robert Hannigan ,abruptly resigned . He claimed in a press release that he wanted to spend more time with his family. Hannigan’s exit is almost certainly more than it seems. Trump has developed a pretty good relationship with Brit PM Theresa May. Did the Trump White House discover what had occurred and communicated with May ? Or did May learn of the maneuvering independently and respond ?
The game is afoot .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Nah he was a community organizer . He was very street savvy .

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And you know this how?

Using your and 'clete's (faulty) logic:

I was born in the US South, so I must be a racist; I grew up in the rural North, so I must be a hayseed or hick; I now live near a large city, so I must have at least eight kids by different fathers and turn to drug dealing and prostitution to supplement the welfare payments I must get. Of course, none of those conclusions are true, nor are the ones you two make about Obama.

From his MO . What did he do to stop the IRS targeting Tea Party groups ? What did he do to stop Evita from flagrantly defying Federal Law by communicating government business on an unsecured private server ? What did he do when Eric Holder blatantly perjured himself in Congressional testimony ? His whole Presidency he kept a distance between what his administration did ,and accepting responsibility for it . If there is one word that defines his tenure it is 'disassociation' with the events he was most responsible for happening .

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1. Using your and 'clete's (faulty) logic:
   
   I was born in the US South, so I must be a racist; I grew up in the rural North, so I must be a hayseed or hick; I now live near a large city, so I must have at least eight kids by different fathers and turn to drug dealing and prostitution to supplement the welfare payments I must get. Of course, none of those conclusions are true, nor are the ones you two make about Obama.

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What are you talking about ? By his own admission he is comfortable being a community organizer . Save the charges of stereotyping to others who sometimes frequent these boards .
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...ity-organizing

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Originally Posted by tomder55

What are you talking about ? By his own admission he is comfortable being a community organizer .

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It was your "street savvy" remark that knocked me over. And 'clete's "hood" remark. Both seem to be unfairly pejorative.

Look up the early years for BO he had a hood doing fundraising for him

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Look up the early years for BO he had a hood doing fundraising for him

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What's your definition of "hood"?

oh I get it . I used a dog whistle . He's also been described as tech savvy ;science savvy and sports savvy . Were those pejoratives too ? I happen to admire the people I know who are street savvy . Being street savvy helped him connect to a segment of his coalition.Being a Harvard grad helped him connect to another . Being bi-racial another ,having a mid-west mother another ... and so on "I contain multitudes," (Walt Whitman)