Edit: GF always picks mother's needs vs our family needs while in a committed relationship. This story below is just one example how she does it. I was just fuming at this one since its the most recent example of my problem, and personally thought it a HUGE issue; see my followup posts.

Hello all, apologies if this is being asked in the wrong section, as I wasn't quite sure which one fit best. I'll try to be brief but thorough.

My girlfriend's mother has abused my girlfriend throughout her childhood to where she (GF) has emotional problems and needs various counseling today. Her father not in picture. From what my GF has told me, she's been told to look out for herself and stop worrying about what her mom thinks or needs. Mother also did questionable things such as using her SSN to start loans etc. I'll be blunt, I think her mom is polite and pleasant to me, and tried harder recently to be a better parent, but ultimately falls short.

My girlfriend recently got a reimbursement check that is extra money from a loan for college, around $5K. Around the same time this money came, we found out her mother is about to be evicted for back rent at her apartment. Now the details are a bit hazy, but basically before I met my GF about 2 years ago, they mostly lived together and possibly shared the lease agreement, but her mother was definitely on the lease (she's unsure about herself). Her mom moved out while on the lease, and they supposedly had a verbal agreement that my GF would assume the rent (with each other, not the landlord). Her mother has since moved back into the apartment with lease, and has been there for the last two years.

Fast forward to today again, we just found out my GF's job is being axed due to company's new vision. Management said everyone would get *some* new position. I'm out of work for other reasons and won't get anything soon. We're already living beyond our means and mostly are paycheck to paycheck. We own a joint bank account.Problem is, my GF feels obligated to use this loan money to pay approx $2000 to her mother, but can't really give me an accounting of how that amount came to be, she can't say for certain she's on the lease still (she moved in with me 2 years ago), I feel its wrong this situation exists because her mom shouldn't have pushed the full responsibility of rent to my GF because she decided to move out, and paid the full amount prior, while my GF at the time had zero way of maintaining it.

I like to to be thorough and smart in general. I really disagree with every fiber of my being that my GF should pay anything unless I get an actual accounting of how the amount came to the $2k. My GF doesn't even want to satisfy my concerns and call the landlord to find out the actual amount or if she's on a lease. I said if we're being 'nice' then we're going to pay the landlord directly. Her mom has a HUGE issue with this, and wants it directly to her. My GF and I agreed to give to landlord directly if giving the money, but then when she talked to her mom, she just agreed to give it to her after her mom said she didn't like that after giving some sob story, without consulting me first.

Long story short, GF and I now fighting because she's saying I'm causing a rift between her and her mom. Her mom is mad at me too. GF saying how she doesn't want to lose her other parent because of this (her mom is actually mad at my GF from the messages she sent my GF, which is wrong too... )I know there's a ton of legal concerns I should be aware of, I know I'm being smart about this and my GF is naïve, and I know her mom should not be this upset my GF (maybe me but... ). I know I'm not really causing a rift either. But I guess I want some advice I can reflect upon her, or verification from someone else here I'm not evil. Or something, etc.

Thank you.
Edit: Sorry for the edits if anyone read quickly, re-reading it I realized I wasn't 100% clear in some spots and the formatting messed up somehow, but I fixed it.

Very unclear the current living arrangements of the 3 of you which goes to who is responsible for what. I think if you and your girlfriend live together and apart from her mother then your gf's first responsibility is to HER household with you. It's between the two of you to work that out despite the outside pressures on your shared finances. So I guess that has to be cleared up first.

Generally I think it's best you stay out of her and her mother's relationship except when it affects YOUR relationship and sorry guy the stress of your own financial situation right,or wrong may distract your own judgement in how to handle this.

If the 3 of you live together, then you have every right to demand the full FACTS, and weigh in on the resolution of this dilemma, as you are affected in this situation. Maybe you don't trust your mom in law, but still the matter of you giving her the money directly, or the landlord seems irrelevant at this point without clarifying FACTS.

As it stands, if your girlfriend doesn't put conditions on an agreement with her mother... neither should you. You either trust your girlfriend, naïve or not, to do the right thing by you... or not!

So back to you for clarity.

First thought: How long does it take for your girlfriend to find out if she's on the lease? That needs to be done immediately. According to your very long post, your girlfriend received $5k from a student loan, so giving her mom $2k shouldn't be an issue. Since you aren't working, for whatever reason, you must not be contributing to rent or any other expenses incurred by you and your girlfriend. So, how do you explain having any say in her finances when you don't have a job, nor will you in the near future? Sorry, I'd go get a job, of any type, and contribute toward your household expenses. Living beyond your means, when you don't have any, is ridiculous. If you don't like the situation between your girlfriend and her mother, why are you still in the relationship? Where would you live if she wasn't paying your bills? Sorry to be harsh, but you don't get to act superior when you aren't.

@talaniman @teacherjenn4

My girlfriend is unwilling to find out if she is on the lease, and doesn't want to have a discussion with me to provide exact accounting details of how the amount came to be, and doesn't seem to care about them herself and hopes it's right. The money supposedly owed is from 4-5 years ago that was unpaid from all this time to the landlord, and is being justified as owed from my GF directly to her mom "because my mom moved out and I lived alone and didn't pay the landlord." (even tho her mom was still on the lease, and still is to this day). Her mother and her since moved back in together before I met my GF, and she (GF) moved in with me over 2 years ago.

As far as our living arrangements, she's lived with me for about 2 years now in a home I own (mortgage is completely paid). I've paid for everything up until now very recently when a medical reason prevented me, at which point we've lived on mostly my savings. Its my business because we've agreed to handle our finances together, we even agree to exactly how we're going to handle this situation, and then she makes a decision without me different than what we discussed and agreed to. We're basically one of those "married but not married" type of people.

Edit: Basically, since I'm in unfamiliar financial territory for the first time ever, and since we do our finances jointly (and she asked for my blessing to give this to her mother), its hard for me to agree because 1) I don't think it's reasonable her mom left a home she(mom) was part of a lease on, when my GF didn't have a job at that time and expect her to pay 100% of it until she moved back. And 2) Even forgiving that, there's zero accounting of how it got to where it was, nobody can seem to explain the amount, but everyones dang sure its exactly that. And 3) The actual amount is $2800, but supposedly her mom will pay the other $800, but is opposed to us giving the $2000 to the landlord directly, and then flat out said she needed some for her car too, followed by telling my GF how poopy* she was for not paying her directly. With all 3 of these things being the case, I feel it's unreasonable to put our financial safety on the line for rent I feel my GF's mother owes in the first place, not her. And because of this, our relationship has been 3 days of fights so its affecting us now as a couple. One of the main reasons my GF wants to pay is because she's afraid her mom will walk out of her life if she crosses her in any way (a big reason she doesn't want to call landlord or verify anything). Her mom has walked out on her in the past, but I'm being blamed for it this time "because I'm part of the reason why this time."

Sorry for the tower post, I hope that cleared more up. Hard to write every relevant detail otherwise.

Thanks a lot for the added details.

Quote:

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she asked for my blessing to give this to her mother

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Yes you have agreed on the amount to give her mom, so let your girlfriend handle it from here HER way, and don't get stuck on the HOW.

Quote:

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...Maybe you don't trust your mom in law, but still the matter of you giving her the money directly, or the landlord seems irrelevant at this point...

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Is it worth the hassle and conflict that you sticking to the plan so rigidly is causing? It's still two grand, so lighten up and relax a bit. Being more flexible is better for your "marriage" than trying to make your partner toe the line so strictly.

I get you may be entirely right about the correct way YOU would go about handling your business, but trust the older guy who has been MARRIED 40 years, there has to be freedom (read:RESPECT) for your partner to handle her business her way, and in her own style, and even make a mistake every now and then.

Quote:

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As it stands, if your girlfriend doesn't put conditions on an agreement with her mother... neither should you. You either trust your girlfriend, naïve or not, to do the right thing by you... or not!

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Let this go and maybe in the future she can let it go when YOU do something that burns her butt. Oh yeah! That will happen no matter how hard you try to be perfect! :D

Even though you may be RIGHT, you could still be WRONG! Make sense?

Your poor GF. No written agreement with her mother, or you.

No, you do not have a right to be part of this 5K, no matter what.

Whatever amount she gives/spends on her mother is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
Whatever agreement she breaks with you IS YOUR BUSINESS.
Are those contradictory statements? No. If she doesn't put in her share of expenses with you, you decide how you will deal with your relationship with her. NOT barge into her accounting and spending habits. You aren't married. You state your rights in a rather chilling way. Being smart doesn't make you right. I'm right.

Did it ever occur to you that she can always go back to her mother if you throw her out? She may even have all sorts of mixed up guilt about her mother. None of that matters. It isn't your money. Arguing that her mother will be the squeaky wheel that gets the money is irrelevant.

I titled this "Issues with GF and Mother." While the immediate problem was a money thing, its not the main issue, and I probably should have stated its an example of a larger problem in my opinion. We've resolved the money issue. In a nutshell, we've agreed to help her mother out, even though my GF wasn't even on the lease after finally talking to the landlord. We ironed out some of my concerns.


I guess my ultimate problem my GF is putting her mother's needs before our needs.


We plan goals together as a couple, we form a budget together, and create boundaries for intrusive parents, but then the classic "choosing between my parents and my partner" issue rears its head, and she goes against what we already planned and agreed to almost every time, out of fear of retribution of her mother, sometimes negatively affecting our living situation (ie money we need for us benefits her mom), and I don't think she can help it. I feel her obligation is to THIS family (ie: me, her, our daughter) first, not her mother. What's the point of talking things out with your partner and finding ground we're both comfortable with if she's gonna go back on her word? How can I trust her? I respect her and do trust her, but I think she can't help herself in this one aspect. The counselors I mentioned in my first post even think her mother is unhealthy for her for this reason since she puts her mom's needs before her own needs and health (and our family.)

This money situation is only the latest branch on a tree of issues with her mother. Ie, my GF still has utility bills in her name setup at a place she hasn't even lived for 2+ years, and she's afraid to cancel them because "mom needs them and can't do it herself." In my perspective, its fine to help her mom, but ultimately it comes back to affect us when her mother doesn't pay them because its in GF's name and creditors go after us. Its completely irresponsible for her to uniformly decide to pay off her mom's landlord before even talking about all the facts with me when we have bills of our own.

@joypuly: I have to respectfully disagree. How is the $5K something I have no right to? We share a bank account together, the money is in an account with my name and hers. She has access to my money and I have access to hers and our expenses are shared. If we agree to a budget that doesn't include giving away some money to her mom, and then she does it anyway, and puts us in a situation we can't afford our shared bills, I find your perspective troubling. That's just my opinion of course.

My take is that you are in a no win situation. Stay out of this if you can. The money problems will escalate.

Now it turns out that you have a child together, slid into a sentence in parentheses, as though it's an afterthought? Did you not see that that is very important???? Of course that changes my viewpoint.
I made a distinction based on not married.
All you said was 'not married but married.'
I find it troubling that you keep leaving out important facts in favor of unnecessary ones.

Having conciliated somewhat on that, I still say that the weight of the argument is in favor of the person who was given the money.

The FOUR of you are in big trouble. None of you may have any money soon. The child comes first. I suggest family counseling. Not the deep analytical kind, but the solution kind.

(You probably know that student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.)

I realize there's a lot to factor in, and I apologize if you are irritated because something you felt was important was left out. I didn't really want to start with a 15 paragraph intro because I feel nobody wants to read those, because in my opinion, a lot of people do put in useless info, so I tried to crunch it. Of course everything I put in I feel is important. Go figure. But here are a few things I'll clarify:


1) My main issue is I feel whenever there is a time my GF's mother's vs our family's needs oppose one another, she always picks her mom's needs before ours. In cases of boundaries, she always feels the need to please her mom first before me (ie answering phones during midnight.) I don't think its right, and want some clarification on this point, am I wrong, esp after we talked about it and made some clear choices together, and then she goes back on them? This loan issue is just the latest issue of her mom's need vs our needs, so I used it as an example because I think it's the most problematic one. Her mom works and has an income, she's just makes poor decisions and wastes money but is PERFECTLY capable of paying her own way, just doesn't, and puts strains on our family since my GF feels obligated to choose her side every time. How would you feel if you suddenly had your income levels change drastically and your partner just gave an enormous chunk away to a person that she always picks over you, and also has a history of abusing and taking advantage of your partner, without even a discussion or a plan for yourselves first?


2) With that said, running out of money completely, bankruptcy, etc, isn't something I'm concerned about. I don't want financial advice. Basically our only expense is utilities and food, and one of us working anywhere part time can cover that if it comes down to that. I do recognize our situation isn't ideal, however, and we have a negative cash flow right this moment, but its pretty recent and NOT the norm and shouldn't be permanent. If we followed a budget, I'm confident we'll be okay and break even after adjusting to our hopefully temporary lower income levels. But I can tie this situation to how her giving in to her mom causes issues, and why.


3) What I think is important may not be what you think is important, it's not really an afterthought, I'm just trying to put in proper grammar. For example, marriage or not, I think its irrelevant since we're essentially life partners. I don't feel like explaining we're both atheists and consider marriage a religious ceremony that's unnecessary and irrelevant to both of us, when a simple "We're committed" or something similar should suffice. Kid or not, root issue is she picks her mom. Kid may be relevant to the money issue, but not the main issue of picking her mom over me every time.


So while I understand everyone is different, and I respect her and trust her and let her form her own opinions, I still really feel strongly I'm right to ask that she puts our family first in conflicts of interest. I feel her anxiety issue prevents her from recognizing and making that choice, even though I believe she's sincere when she says she'll put us first, but then backs off for some reason every time because "this situation is different."

To be fair, and I state the obvious, it's unfair that you expect her to be 100% committed to your family unless you are 100% committed as well, specifically, unless her name is on the deed to YOUR house as an equal partner, you have but an arrangement, or agreement that doesn't have the full security, and protections of a marriage.

Further I think it's important to point out the huge red flag when one partner can so easily point to the flaws of the other party in great detail even without acknowledging their own as truly whatever the beef is I can almost guarantee there is another side of the equation left unsaid and therefore unbalanced in the factual narrative.

Look guy I can completely sympathize with you even after finding out there is a child involved, but I also know that dwindling savings after being unable to provide can put a lot of pressure on any couple. Of course you have to adjust and weather this storm until you can do better. I will say it again my friend much better to give her the freedom to work through her issues as you restructure YOUR finances.

So many questions that need answers though, basics really, like your ages, and how long were you dating before this marriage? How long have you known she was still supporting mom? What did she give up to move in with you, and how long will you be out of work which seems to me to be the root cause of your problem as much as her supporting her mom.

You may as well relax, as disappointed as you are right now, so you can work through this calmly, because no doubt when your own finances improve so will your whole attitude become better.

I await your response to my questions.

@talaniman

Regarding the ownership aspect, that's a good point I've never really thought of. I don't think she has either though. We generally have great communication and trust. But I get your point and agree.

She certainly has some flaws I'll consider flaws, but then there's just things that I don't agree with her on because our beginnings were vastly different. I definitely respect she's different and has different opinions, and don't hold her flaws against her. We've acknowledge we're different in some areas and respect that. I'm sure there's things she doesn't agree with me on, but they don't cause problems for either of us. It's only this one thing.

I am 33, she's 26. So there is an age difference. We've been together a total for 2 1/2 years, she officially moved in about 2 yrs ago, so we dated for six months before she moved in (yes I know this isn't much time). We recognized some things with each other immediately that were different than previous failed relationships that were important to us, i.e. we actually were friends first.

She's not technically supporting her mom, she's just left all the utilities in her name since her mom can't start services on her own due to affording deposits because her credits bad. Her mom typically pays them, but is always a month behind. IMO, this is a recipe to get her in trouble and she should worry about her needs. Her therapist in counseling first pointed this out to her, among several other issues her mom's abuse caused her and how to get over them. I echoed it after a professional pointed it out.

If I understand your question correctly, she didn't give up much. She lived in poverty with her mom basically taking care of all finances in their apartment together, other than the brief partial year her mom moved out. The home they rented was not in good condition. They had almost no luxuries whatsoever. She had no job until about 6 months ago tying her to her location or anything like that. We're only 15 miles from her moms distance-wise anyway. Basically her social life was her mom and she took care of their apartment for her while her mom worked.

In contrast, I come from a wealthy family, and have had a high paying job (although until recently we spent it almost as fast as I made it, which is why we're not as good off as we should be. (I do know how to budget when I need to though and encourage these values!) We have a very nice home together, and I've built up her self esteem to a point she is going to college. We have friends together (mine). Basically, she absolutely loved the difference of her old vs new life.

As far as how long I'll be out of work, hard to say for sure, but maybe a year, give or take a few months. If we were where we were 6 months ago and the rent situation came up, I probably wouldn't have cared at all. I don't like her making decisions that now suddenly affect us, without a forethought, and resistance for even trying to talk to her about it, and never siding with me in these things. Even before the money "crisis", any kind of conflicting issue never was resolved with us in mind, but her mom. Example, just recently her mom threw out everything she owned she left in their old apartment for some new BF, then mom blamed me for not moving her stuff to my house quicker and she shouldn't have had to store it still (stuff I didn't even know existed) and my GF agreed with her mom and wouldn't stand up to her!

Overall, we are perfectly understanding of each other (to the best of my knowledge), are rational communicators, respect each others values and try to compromise and work through anything, very successfully in my opinion. But this one issue (heightened by my original problem) just doesn't seem to get resolved or even discussed.

Stating that you share a child should have been right at the top. A lot of the background was extraneous. My humble opinion.
Tal states the obvious - she's not on the deed - and you say you never really thought of it????? And you don't think she has either?????
Oh I'll bet the farm she has. That and marriage.
I'm a woman.
I know I am brusque and not very nice about this, but I'll keep at it: I don't think you see the forest for the trees.

Underneath it all, I'm sympathetic to your plight. But I maintain that this 5K, a one time windfall for HER, is exempt from your insistence that it be included in your 'agreement.'
Marry her or stop making demands.
Her history with abuse, her therapy, her awful mother, are all smokescreens that are just underscoring your organized and financially savvy existence. They are extraneous, but you put them FIRST, without even mentioning the CHILD!

I can relate to your feelings, and to be honest your wife's actions seem to be very consistent with a young person struggling to define herself (After being poor AND abused(?)) as an individual, and enjoying exploring, and experimenting with her options and newfound POWERS. You are very consistent also, as you struggle with the changes you are going through, and trying to make adjustments. The problem I see is you want her to adjust to your way of thinking, and rather quickly, which I don't see happening soon, and a fruitless expectation at this point.

Obviously you are distracted by your own feelings and your confidence is shaken, a normal reaction when finances change for the worst, especially with guys who are use to being successful, and in control. I think it's important for you to let go, step back, and enjoy your obvious blessings, which according to what you wrote, you have in ABUNDANCE. I mean how many can say that though they are unemployed, they have a home of their own, and a wife who loves them, savings, and a child they have a lot of time for at 33 no less?

Why focus so much on the challenges, and obstacles, when you already have much to be happy about? Maybe the lesson in all this is you cannot control others, or outcomes you want, but you can control yourself, your thoughts, words, actions, and reactions, and behavior and ATTITUDE. You can accept the challenges of life, and rise above them in a positive orderly way, or drown in the crap of your own making.

Comes down to what will you do? Step back and think about this and find some good orderly direction. What can you do?

BACK TO YOU.

@joypulv

I don't think we're addressing my core issue, which is, I feel like my GF caves to her mom's needs or wants, over her (or our) needs or wants every time, regardless of situation.

When I started this topic, the $5k was fresh in my mind and a symptom of the core issue, and its taken a few posts for me to recognize that. Do I agree with her decision? No, I don't. But it's not because of my "organized and financial savvy existence", nor a clash of how we were raised or do things... Its because I feel like she's been manipulated / abused her entire life and her decision making process about anything regarding her mom is affected, and spills into our relationship in an unhealthy way.

In other words, if her various anxiety/social disorders didn't exist, and this was simply a disagreement between the two of us on how to handle money, while I wouldn't like it because I have my reasons and various opinions vs hers, I also would understand I'm different and not make it an issue.

So regarding the sub issue of how to handle this money: I feel the two of us should be able to at least have a discussion about it, and share our opinions and thoughts. If she wanted to spend $2k for any other reason, even if I disagreed, I'd accept. Because even if we didn't share the same viewpoint, we still considered each others opinions. When I said we had an "agreement on the money", I mean we literally talked about how we spend/save/etc it due to our situation the NIGHT BEFORE her mother made a claim to it, and then literally everything we agreed to was out the window.

The fact we have a child, the fact we're not married, the fact she may or may not have thought about a deed, in my opinion is not relevant that I cannot trust *any* decision or agreement we make can and is reversed any time her mom has an opposing opinion on any matter. Again, I just used this money scenario as an example to illustrate my overall issue.

Edit: She even recognizes herself that her mother is an issue of her disorders. Which is why she is going to various counseling / doctors. But it doesn't matter, and while I've *understood* this for some other issues she's caved to that have her mom involved, the money thing is the first thing i guess you could say I find is *vital*? Which is probably why I made a point to talk about it in the first post.

@ talaniman

We were apparently typing over one another. You're right. I do have a lot to be happy about. And after writing my last response, I almost feel like a jerk for recognizing her issues are out of her control and feeling like she should be able to do something about it, immediately. And I also really didn't think about "new powers" as you put it may affect her judgement. either. But dang, it still feels infuriating just because the latest situation "feels important."

Hi!

You have said a lot so I am going to sum up what I feel are the important issues.

1). Your girlfriend is the product of a single parent household. Which is to say that for the LONGEST time her Mother was all that she had. It doesn't sound like she has any siblings or any extended family, or they're not close. The important fact here is that she has a TIGHT bond with her mother and for 23 odd years their family unit was sink or swim depending on her mother or her. That is a dependency that is NOT going to go away until a major life changing event occurs.

Look at their relationship and you'll understand that, they're trained to rely on each other because at times they were the only people that could be relied on. It is obvious here why she wants to help her Mother, even when it is before you and your child, because she always has.

2). You have a tight family unit. You, your common-law wife (Look up the local laws you might be legally married by-common law), and singular child. You're stable. That isn't too common these days. This bit of conflict could break you up. Everyone has their priorities. Yours is sustaining your family, and you define family as your wife and kid. Your wife's is to sustain her family, her mother first, then you guys. The conflict here is because your priorities aren't aligned.

3). There are decisions that are being made by YOU solely, by your WIFE solely, and together. She is changing decision made together. Do you do the same? If you agree to something, say spending money on a Microwave, then blow that money on something else? You might not. What my point is, are you innocent of the crimes you're accusing her of?

The money and all that is just the symptoms of that problem.

So how do you fix it? Talk to your wife. Let her know your frustrations. Let her know what the optics of what she's doing is. Let her know what your feelings are. You're equal in this relationship, she can't make promises and break agreements that you two have made.

You also need to have a plan out lining:
1). What happens if she doesn't change (Probable outcome)
2). What are you willing to sacrifice?
3). What can you do to help?
4). Do you have an exit strategy?
5). How important is this really, in the grand scheme of this. (Very important is a Valid answer)

A few other things:
1). You need to approach your mother-inlaw about her problems and get a idea of everything that is going on. Your wife doesn't know what is going on. You and your wife know what she's telling you. Getting angry that the landlord is getting the money and not her is a BIG red flag for something dodgy going on. Gambling problem? Drug problem? Pokemon go problem? There is something else going on and you need to figure this out WITH your wife.

2). Per marriage. I am an atheist. I have been married twice in non-religious ceremonies. Marriage isn't an archaic religious ceremony or ritual. It is an event that is relevant in this day and age. It is, as it always has been, a public acknowledgement of your commitment to your partner. It has social and legal ramifications. What does it say about your relationship when you say you won't leave, but you could without warning? Yea, you hit a nerve.

I'm not religious. Marriage to me is a legal contract. You have a child with her.
It boggles my mind that you don't think she thinks about all that.

You and Tal seem to be sympatico. I'll bow out. Still somewhat miffed. Good luck.

I'd get an equity loan. Your house is fully paid for. Something fixed rate if possible.

@joypulv, I do appreciate your advice too because you have given me some things to consider that I'll try and make sure of. And you've forced me to elaborate on my own issue which has helped me identify my problem better. Thank you (to all here by the way as well). For what its worth, I say my GF and I are in agreement that we don't care about "actual" marriage because its just one of those things we sort of talked about casually together while learning about ourselves as a couple. Personally, I agree with you in theory that it's a contract that we'll stay together. But let's be honest, society doesn't seem to think that way, otherwise people wouldn't get divorced. And they do. So to me it has no religious meaning, and the contractual obligation feels like a lie if divorce is even an option anyway. This is pretty much her stated opinion too, and if she feels otherwise, why'd she say it unprompted? I do understand it probably "feels better" than nothing though.


@craven, I agree with most of your points. To answer some of your questions: After a discussion about something, where an important decision needs to be made, yes I can say I keep my word. Regarding plans: I'll try to deal with a non change, but she is trying so that's comforting to me, even if the results aren't what I want. Haven't really thought about your other questions, other than innately I know its very important to me. About the money issue directly, I know there's huge red flags, which is partly why I feel so strong about this where others don't on the forum. Yes her mom has a had a drug problem in the past, which I think for the moment isn't happening, but she is also known to waste tons of money which I think is more likely; my GF refuses to accept these realities. See response above about marriage.


Anyway, I think by discussing all of this and forcing me to explain some things better, I've realized what my own internal issue is with all this. And now that I see it, I can deal with it. She's probably always going to side with her mother (at least in the foreseeable future), and its probably for a variety of reasons. Their bond, possible conditioning, her anxiety. And yes, I cannot control this, so while I'm frustrated, I realize I'm not really frustrated at her. I don't think talaniman quite meant it in this way, but that last note really hit it with me.


Anyway, I think we can close this one up for now.

@talaniman : thank you, esp for that last bit.