I live in a condo. All of the units in the building need to new air conditioners because they are all old are will not survive an inpending reroofing. The association got a bid for a company that will put in a new A/C unit for anyone who wants one - it is about $1500 installed. The estimate includes a Payne 2 ton, 13 SEER, r-22 air conditioner unit. I have no idea about air conditioners. Is this a good one? I would prefer to just go with the group plan (which very few owners are doing for some reason) because of convenience. My questions are these:

- Is the Payne unit good?

- Is the $1500 installed a lot? Too little (and I should be skeptical)?

- Are all cetnral A/C units basically the same?

Thanks, in advance, for any advice!

First question?
Are they replacing the inside coil at the same time they are replacing the outside unit? They need/should replace the inside coil to maintain the 13 SEER.
If they are not replacing the inside coil the price is a little rich since the unit costs about 500.00 wholesale.
Payne is a Bryant without the fancy do dads

They are not replacing the inside coil. In fact, I called the person after your comment and he said that the inside coil has a heat strip, and in California, those can't be replaced with new heat strips. So, according to the electrician guy, said that to replace the inside coil I would need a condensor/heat pump unit rather than just a condenser. He also said that the builidng in which my condo is in has a T-bar fan, and that it probably can't be made quiet (it is currently very loud if either the heater or air is on).

Does this all sound right? Should I get a second opinion? I don't think thtat getting just a condenser makes sense if I can't replace the inside coil unless I have the condensor/heat pump unit? I am concerned about using this electrician if he would recommend anyone in the building getting just a condenser (about 15 people are signed up to right now). Something seems off to me, but I know NOTHING about any of this. Any recommendations?

Stan your ground. First get a second opinion from a totally different person.
A 13 seer new outside unit will not work well if at all with the old inside coil. If 15 years old it is probably a 8 to 10 seer and it should really geta new one. Now as far as replacing the heat strip I have no idea what the California laws say but it just does not sound correct to me unless they want you to go with a heat pump in California to save fuel.

I agree with hvac1000, change the evaporator coil. Carrier,Bryant,Payne - made in the same factory. Go with the heatpump but go R410A for the refrigerant not R22. If they have a R22 13 seer. They have had it instock for a while and need to get rid of it. The newer systems are 410A and the evaporator coil will have to be replaced to work with it. Of the three Payne is the bottom of the line contractor model.

R-22 will be around till 2010 in new equiptment. R-22 will still be made till 2020.. It will be available for many years after that. R 410 is OK but a much higher pressure refrigerant. It also just loves to suck up water which can cause major problems. At the University my class had tested both for major manufactures and as of right now if it is my home I will stick with R 22. The reasons are simple. Most HVAC people never pull a proper vac on a system to remove all the moisture and to make matters they never flow nitrogen while brazing the unit together. This in and of itself is enough to cause problems with R 410 until everyone understands what has to be done to use it properly.

I totally agree with hvac1000, in the near future 410a will cause problems. Is the reason they are telling that the heat strips have to be changed because the coil is built into the air handler, that would be the only reason that would make sense... I would get a couple of different quotes, In my opinion everything is close to the same these days, some equip. has a few more bells and whistles than others, but 1,500 dollars is pretty high for a condensing unit only... look around on the net, you can get a 13 seer 2.5 ton cond. Unit for 600 bucks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hvac1000

R-22 will be around till 2010 in new equiptment. R-22 will still be made till 2020.. It will be available for many years after that. R 410 is OK but a much higher pressure refrigerant. It also just loves to suck up water which can cause major problems. At the University my class had tested both for major manufactures and as of right now if it is my home I will stick with R 22. The reasons are simple. Most HVAC people never pull a proper vac on a system to remove all the moisture and to make matters they never flow nitrogen while brazing the unit together. This in and of itself is enough to cause problems with R 410 until everyone understands what has to be done to use it properly.

---

Check again the dates you gave are wrong R22 is on its way out. Yes 410A does run under higher pressures but the equipment is made for it. I have found that the 410A has a better temp split across the coil than the R22 and yes it will have problems if you get moisture in it(just like the R22). But that's the reason why you have a qualified tech install and service the equipment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T-Top

Check again the dates you gave are wrong R22 is on its way out. Yes 410A does run under higher pressures but the equipment is made for it. I have found that the 410A has a better temp split across the coil than the R22 and yes it will have problems if you get moisture in it(just like the R22). But thats the reason why you have a qualified tech install and service the equipment.

---

t-top, hvac1000 is correct, R22 will be made in the US until 2010 and then it's done, but it will be available long after. I myself have noticed no diffrence in a temp. split on a 410a sysyem over a R22 system. Do you have any proof to back this statement? If so I'd love to hear it!

The cut date for new equiptment using R-22 will be in 2010 but they can manufacture R-22 after that for a period.

I agree with the 2010 part. It's the 2020 I have problems with.Why buy a unit when in three years the refrigerant will not be made any more. Why buy a unit that is obsolete. I work with R22 and R410 I have found that the temp drop on a R22 is 15 to 25 degrees across the evap coil(cooling mode). The temp drop on the 410 is 30 to 35 check it out for yourself.And yes R12 is still here. If you have the money to buy it and R22 is on the same track. Check the prices each season they go up.Would you buy a 2007 car that had R12 for the cooling system?

My heater was running continuously so I installed a new thermostat with a new version of
The white-rodgers I had and now the air conditioning compressor just clicks like it wants to come on but the fan does not turn? Any thoughts?

The 13 seer law is a federal law. I would definitely replace entire
System. Always get at least 3 bids when purchasing a unit. And if a company is afraid to use the R 410a refrigerant, find another company who is more confident in what they are doing. Use a company that hires NATE CERTIFIED TECHNICIANS and INSTALLERS

You need to make sure they change the inside coil to match the outside unit. You will never get the efficiency if you do not change that coil. Also if they tell you they do not have to change the coil contact Bryant/Payne corporation to get there 2 cents worth. They will tell you that there warranty on the new outside unit will be null and void unless the inside coil is changed. So far this year we have been sent 8 different service/install bullitines in regards to this issue.

The indoor coil purchase is supposed to be on the same invoice as the outside unit purchase for the warranty to be valid.

BTW there is NO difference in R22 or R-410A refrigerants as far as cooling is concerned. They will all supply the industry standard of 18 to 20 degrees TD (total differential) when installed properly. Contrary to what some have said the tempersture drop for R-410A is no greater than for R-22. Any larger differential indicates not enough air moving across the coil and that usually indicates a duct problem or blower speed selection mistake. This can happen on replacement units when using the old duct. If the differential situation is not corrected problems will eventually happen.

IHAVE a pane unit model ph1zna030000aaaa. I had to put a new condenser motor on and the motor barely turns .its a wagner motor should it have a different condenser this is the thir motor I had tohave put on in about 5y3ars.its a multi hp unit 1/2 1/3 1/4 1/5

My paine is always leaking water,its not the pan,not the drain line, somewith the air tight suck, help

Y is my payne leaking water , drain clear, pan fine, coils clean, something to do with the front cover?