For a while now, there has been a very small section of drywall near my tub that is wet after a shower, and it started to fall apart and bubble. After asking around, everyone suggested that it is just water coming out of the shower, and that the wall just needs to be spackled and painted. That was done, and then in the past couple of months, it has started to do the same thing.

Last Tuesday, I sat down and stared at the wall while running the shower. After 21 minutes, the wall started to get damp from the inside. So I concluded that the leak was coming from inside the wall. A relative came over and helped me open the wall from the room behind the bathtub. Everything not only looked dry, but it looked like there had never been any water back there. We thought it was due to the caulking around the tub, which was getting old, so we tore it out and re-caulked the tub.

A couple of mornings later, the wall was getting wet again. I had a plumber come over and decided the it was coming from behind the valve and dripping into the lip of the tub, and eventually flowing into the wall. He replaced the valve and the surrounding pipes. Two mornings later... well, the wall is wet again after my shower.

It's incredibly frustrating. The area seems to be isolated between the stud and the tile. Nothing else seems wet. The other side of the tile and stud are both dry. Above this section is dry. All of the pipes around this area are dry. I've attached a picture of the problem area both before and after cutting open the wall.

I've got the plumber coming back in the morning, but at this point I have no idea what they could even come up with. Some opinions would be great. Thanks!

More info: It seems to take a while. Short showers are fine, but anything 15-20 minutes or more seems to end with a wet wall. It doesn't get damp slowly, it seems to come all at once. One morning I got out of the shower and it was fine, then I looked back a minute later and it was completely saturated. Looking behind the wall while the shower has on has produced no evidence of anything behind there leaking.

Looks like grey poly piping. Was this house a part of the recall and repair? It is a well known fact that poly pipe leaks at the fittings. Check them out.

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Originally Posted by ma0641

Looks like grey poly piping. Was this house a part of the recall and repair? It is a well known fact that poly pipe leaks at the fittings. Check them out.

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I'm not aware of any recall and repair. The only reason I don't think it's the piping is that the pipe closest to this leak is on the other side of the stud, and that side of the stud never seems wet.

Plus wouldn't it leak constantly? I should be able to turn on the shower and see signs if it almost right away I'd think.

Suspect a leak where the shower arm screws into the drop ell. Pull the escutcheon around the shower arm away from the wall. Using a flash light, look inside for signs of a leak.

Better yet, stop by Home Depot or Lowe's and pick up a 1/2" PVC threaded pipe cap. Remove the shower head. Remove the escutcheon. Screw the pipe cap onto the shower arm. Turn on the water (to shower). Keep checking for water where shower arm screws into the drop ell every five minutes for 20 minutes.

If your plumber replaced a shower valve because he didn't know what else to do, you need a new plumber.

I think Harold is pointing you the right direction. Also, it can be the spout connection. Check them out both.

What's is on the other side of this wall ? Can you cut it open and see exactly where is the leak coming from ?

That grey pipe appears to be electrical conduit ....

Back to you

Milo

Yes, the "grey pipe" is actually electrical wires. This is a jacuzzi tub so those power the jets.

At this point, the shower head is the only area that hasn't been checked. But it must be dripping a long way before actually hitting the wall. The area is pretty far away from the shower head and off to the side.

And yes, the other side of the shower is a 2nd bedroom which already has a hole cut out. I've been looking back there during showers and don't see a single drop of water anywhere. All at once, it just leaks into the wall. This morning, it happened 5 minutes *after* my shower. I've left q-tips and tissues in a few places, and all of them were dry after the wall got wet.

Put the pipe cap on the shower arm as suggested. If the wet spot shows up that will confirm that the leak in the shower riser or drop ell. If it does not show up that will indicate that the leak is in the through the tiles from the spray of the shower.

The leak is probably where shower arm screws into the drop ell and running down between the tile and the wall board.

TA, Water is traveling, channeling, and wicking, possibly between the tile and wall board. Using your knuckles, tap the tiles immediately adjacent to the wet area; start at the tub and work your way away from the wetness, up & sideways - you may notice a different, hollow sound where the tiles are no longer fixed solidly to the wall board.

Remove the tub spout, shower head & escutcheon, connect a piece of hose to the shower arm and weigh it down in a pail in the bath tub. Run the water through the tub / shower valve - 30 minutes through the spout pipe, and 30 minutes through the shower hose, or, until you get a leak. This process will prove the integrity of the shower and spout connections, which could prove that the leak is the result of tile grout joint failure, or wicking / capillary action where the tile meets the tub during a shower.

Sheetrock is the least desirable wall board material to use near wet walls; it will wick & distribute water.

When faced with these type of nuisance leaks, I will identify all possible contributors and use an orderly, documented process of elimination to find the cause...

Call somebody who has experience in the trade, like a handyman or plumber. One look into the opening from the other room and he will tell you right away where is the water coming from.

Also, In photo #1, it looks like the front apron is removable to access the jets. If that is so, remove it, run tub / shower and see, if you can locate the leak from the front

Milo

Thanks to everyone for their time and comments!

I've finally narrowed down the cause. On Saturday I ran the shower for 30 minutes while watching the wall, and there was no sign of water anywhere. But my Sunday morning shower created the leak.

On Sunday night, I started putting cotton swabs in certain places in the wall behind the shower, and q-tips in the lip of the tub. After Monday and Tuesday morning showers, all of the cotton swabs were dry, but the q-tips were wet! (I'm a statistical analyst in real life, so I guess this is my way of solving things.)

Clearly, water was travelling along the lip of the tub. I was pretty sure it was the showerhead, but a family friend pointed out that I also couldn't rule out a grout/seal issue. Tonight, I ran the shower again for 30 minutes, and there was absolutely nothing. So it only gets wet when I'm standing in the shower. That would seem to rule out an issue with the showerhead.

That left one final test. I turned the shower on and sprayed it against the shower wall. 10-15 minutes later, a q-tip on the right side of the lip was wet. 5 minutes later, the one in the center was wet, and then shortly after that, the leak appeared in the wall. I would imagine that has to be the answer. Water is seeping in somewhere through the tile/grout/caulk. Everything looks pretty good to the naked eye though.

I'm having someone come by tomorrow to look at it and help me figure out what the next step is.

Find the heaviest friend you know stand in it roughly where you might during a shower and then look at the grout/Caulking. Without that weight standing in it looking alone will be significantly more difficult.

You or someone heavier than you will need to stand in the shower while they look. For some reason something is flexing enough to open a gap. If it's the grout... you have a bigger issue as that should never flex at all (grout is NOT flexible)... if the caulking (which IS flexible...) digging out the old and re-caulking it should fix it.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Find the heaviest friend you know stand in it roughly where you might during a shower and then look at the grout/Caulking. Without that weight standing in it looking alone will be significantly more difficult.

You or someone heavier than you will need to stand in the shower while they look. For some reason something is flexing enough to open a gap. If it's the grout... you have a bigger issue as that should never flex at all (grout is NOT flexible)... if the caulking (which IS flexible...) digging out the old and re-caulking it should fix it.

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I don't think it has to do with weight. When I discovered this, there was no one in the tub.

And actually, the caulking was our original guess, and it's already been re-caulked (by someone who has experience doing it).

It can also be the spout. Once you press the diverter on the spout, spout shuts down and sends water up to the shower head. That means, that spout pipe, including connection the rough-in body is under increased pressure. If any of the spout connections are not sealing properly, water will spray out every time you switch from spout to shower head.

Try to run the spout only and see if you get a leak.

Question: Isn't that front panel on that tub removable ? Looking at the first photo, it sure looks like it may be removable.

Back to you

Milo

TA,
These type of repairs are the core of our business, I think you'll find it necessary to demo the tile & wall board on the valve wall, and possibly the long wall. Two to three feet up from the tub will usually do it. When preparing the wall for new tile, we try not to have a common joint between the new tile and tile backer board. We always use durarock for backer board, it is waterproof and can be made watertight to the tub, seams, and corners with mesh tape & thin set - using the thin set as joint compound.
We also continue the durarock 2 - 4 inches beyond the tub width and down to the floor - it can be skim coated to match the existing wall board if tile does not cover it.
If you can't find fill in tiles to match the existing color or size, we'll use a decorative border tile to separate the old from the new, or " frame " a smaller area of new tiles as needed...

Caulk around the tub spout and do your last leak test again (spraying against the wall).

Updates:

Milo - I don't think it's the spout. I ran the spout only during the weekend. Additionally, it's been very tightly sealed. No water is getting through there. Water slowly seeps in around the lip of the tub, where it meets the tile. And yes, the front panel of the tub is removable.

Mike - What kind of business do you have? Any chance you can give me a price estimate of that kind of work? Just trying to be prepared in case a re-caulking doesn't work and I have to take it a step further.

hkstroud - I'm going to see if I can somehow tape over the caulk tonight and then run my spray test again. If no water shows up, or if it takes a lot longer, I might be able to conclude that the tub just needs to be re-caulked better than it was a couple of weeks ago. If the caulk is covered and water is still getting in at the same rate, then I'm probably looking at the kind of work Mike suggested.

Thanks all!

You said the valve had been changed out. I presume that the tub spout was also changed. If tub spout is not tight up against the tile, water running down the wall could get into the wall and behind the tile.

You should be able to see any place in the tile grout or the caulking around the tub where water from the shower spray could get in the wall.

TA,
I am a plumbing / hydronic heating / bathroom remodeling contractor - started my apprenticeship in the late 60's and went into my own business in 1984. I have been very fortunate to partner with Fine Homebuilding magazine - I consult and write trade related articles, my latest article appears in the November issue # 254. I also have demonstrated some basic building skills in videos that appear on their website.
Estimating / pricing jobs site unseen is difficult, and, labor & overhead costs vary by region - it would not be fair to all involved for me to quote any pricing. I can estimate the labor hours needed to demo, prep, and re-tile the affected area.
Removing 4 / 5 rows of tile on the long & valve wall, installing durarock, sealing the tub contact area, seams & joints, and installing new tile, grout & caulk - would take take an experienced remodeler about 16 - 20 hours as long as there is no additional " discovered " damage / rot / mold during demolition.