Ask Me Help Desk - 4 year old with extreme antisocial behaviour

I'm very unnerved by my niece's behaviour, especially towards my 18 month old daughter. Our family has come to visit from out of town, and it is the first time they have ever met. It did not go at all as I expected it to, my niece had little interest in her cousin, and didn't even want my daughter to look at her or else she started fussing and crying about it and would try to hide. My daughter wanted to play so badly and each time she would grab any toy,even her own, my niece would either cry and say she wanted it or she would simply rip it out of my daughter's hand. They were sitting together on the floor playing with toys and I was watching them, although she was talking to my daughter a little, she would still take every single toy my daughter would try to grab. She eventually completely turned away and sat with her back to my daughter and continued to play by herself. I felt so terrible for my daughter, and believe if she was not so young she would have been in tears and had feelings hurt. I'm hoping in a couple days my niece will become more friendly towards us but it is still disappointing to see and feel like this. It also can not be healthy for my daughters own development, so I'm hoping it was just a first day thing. Regardless I think this behaviour is downright strange and so extreme! And I actually fear she would physically hurt my daughter if they were alone. I haven't seen my sister or niece for years, so I have no clue what's went on since then or her parenting style. What could this be, an actual issue or just a child being a child? Am I in the wrong for being so concerned? Is there anything I can do to help my niece? Any advice, ideas or information would be appreciated.

I don't see this as extreme at all, or a reason to be unnerved (you don't say if your niece has siblings or has ever been in daycare). A little gentle direction while sitting on the floor with them will go a long way. Most children need to be taught the concept of sharing. It's typical for them to be possessive in general and to grab toys away from others. And perhaps your niece hasn't been around other children much, so is used to all attention being on her. It takes time to socialize, but it shouldn't be difficult. I can't imagine it taking more than an hour a day for maybe 2 or 3 days. Just be sure to do it in a way that isn't punitive. Sharing will be harder for an 18 month old than a 4 year old to comprehend of course, so you will need to use 'fun distractions' too. Another toy, another thing to do, such as sing Itsy Bitsy Spider, or patty cake - anything.

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Originally Posted by joypulv

I don't see this as extreme at all, or a reason to be unnerved (you don't say if your niece has siblings or has ever been in daycare). A little gentle direction while sitting on the floor with them will go a long way. Most children need to be taught the concept of sharing. It's typical for them to be possessive in general and to grab toys away from others. And perhaps your niece hasn't been around other children much, so is used to all attention being on her. It takes time to socialize, but it shouldn't be difficult. I can't imagine it taking more than an hour a day for maybe 2 or 3 days. Just be sure to do it in a way that isn't punitive. Sharing will be harder for an 18 month old than a 4 year old to comprehend of course, so you will need to use 'fun distractions' too. Another toy, another thing to do, such as sing Itsy Bitsy Spider, or patty cake - anything.

Thanks. That makes me feel better to hear, although my daughter is a lot younger she loves sharing her toys, food, anything, so I'm really not used to this on a personal level but also with any of her other young friends or family. I will definitely work on them, as I said it is the first time they have met and I would love nothing more than to see them playing together. And yes my niece has other siblings but they are much older than her.

It didn't go as you expected but this is where you AND your sister guide the kids and smooth there introduction to each other. A 4 year old and 18 month old are never left unsupervised anyway, but two adults have to be on the same page anyway. That's more the issue than the kids at this point I think.

It's a learning process as everyone gets use to each other.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

It didn't go as you expected but this is where you AND your sister guide the kids and smooth there introduction to each other. A 4 year old and 18 month old are never left unsupervised anyway, but two adults have to be on the same page anyway. That's more the issue than the kids at this point I think.

It's a learning process as everyone gets use to each other.

Yes that's true. It was the first day they were here, I am hopeful it will get better as they settle in a little, too.

You never said...

Does this child have siblings? Is she in daycare?

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Originally Posted by J_9

You never said...

Does this child have siblings? Is she in daycare?

She does have siblings but they are much older. And I don't think she has ever been in day care or preschool, but I would have to ask my sister to make sure. As far as I know, no. They do shift work and usually one parent is home, and if not the older siblings baby sit.

A really good, general rule about parenting a toddler is to stay calm. Children are incredibly resilient. You were practically in tears putting yourself in your daughter's place, yet she remained OK. Even if she had cried when a toy was grabbed away from her, she'd have recovered. Being anxious and seeing extremes is just going to get etched on her mind, whether or overtly or covertly. Ever see a bunch of mothers gabbing while their kids cry to mommy, he took my toy, and the mommies just all say 'now kids, you know about sharing' and go right back to gabbing. They are teaching without making a big deal about any one behavior. Same when kids lie or steal or do other 'power testing' things as they get older. Stay calm!

As for your niece, maybe having all older siblings means that her sense of power is harder to achieve (birth order does have a big effect, and it's neither good nor bad). Even if they never tease her or break her toys, she sees them as people who 'have it all.' I can still remember what it was like to be the youngest, over 60 years ago - it wasn't fair that they got to do things I couldn't, and they thought it was unfair that I was coddled like a baby. It's the way it goes.

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Originally Posted by joypulv

A really good, general rule about parenting a toddler is to stay calm. Children are incredibly resilient. You were practically in tears putting yourself in your daughter's place, yet she remained OK. Even if she had cried when a toy was grabbed away from her, she'd have recovered. Being anxious and seeing extremes is just going to get etched on her mind, whether or overtly or covertly. Ever see a bunch of mothers gabbing while their kids cry to mommy, he took my toy, and the mommies just all say 'now kids, you know about sharing' and go right back to gabbing. They are teaching without making a big deal about any one behavior. Same when kids lie or steal or do other 'power testing' things as they get older. Stay calm!

As for your niece, maybe having all older siblings means that her sense of power is harder to achieve (birth order does have a big effect, and it's neither good nor bad). Even if they never tease her or break her toys, she sees them as people who 'have it all.' I can still remember what it was like to be the youngest, over 60 years ago - it wasn't fair that they got to do things I couldn't, and they thought it was unfair that I was coddled like a baby. It's the way it goes.

I can remember that feeling too! I am definitely trying to remain calm and not be discouraged, perhaps being 9 MO pregnant is making it a little harder. But thank you for the reminder, it is kind of funny I felt like crying for my daughter, who truthfully didn't even notice toys were being taken from her in the first place.

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Originally Posted by lileeob

She does have siblings but they are much older. And I don't think she has ever been in day care or preschool, but I would have to ask my sister to make sure. As far as I know, no. They do shift work and usually one parent is home, and if not the older siblings baby sit.

Well, that explains it. This is actually very normal behavior for a child that is not socially integrated with children her age or younger. She is protecting her "territory," so to speak. Your daughter has invaded her home, and toys. Your niece is trying to set boundaries in a 4-year old kind of way.

With that said, your sister has to let her know, gently, that this is not acceptable behavior and that she needs to share her toys with her cousin.

Yeah, I think your pregnancy hormones are making this bigger than what it really is. It's okay Mom, it's only the first day visiting, it will get better.

This is normal! In a group of 4 and 5 year olds, it takes a few days for children to speak to each other. Some hide under tables, some scream for weeks on end, and others actually make a friend. Welcome to the world of a Kindergarten teacher. If a child hasn't attended preschool, they may not know how to make a friend. They need to be shown how to interact with others, especially if there are no siblings close in age. Sit on the floor and engage in play with both of them. They'll warm up to each other when they find a common interest. Try playing house, puzzles( easy ones for the toddler), etc.

I just want to do a little update and see if there is now any difference of opinion. My niece has been here for three days now going on four, she still refuses to hug me or my parents (she kicks her feet, throws herself back, and does a little whine) but she has hugged my daughter. There has been some improvement but it's nothing compared to the negative behavior that still continues and is constant. She still won't share or take turns and calls everything hers, instead of using her words like please don't touch my toys, she just has a fit (throws herself, kicks, and makes noises in frustration). She will grab things out of my daughter's hand but now there has been instances of pushing my daughter by the face, and hitting her usually on the hand or arm. She has also grabbed me aggressively by the arm when I refused to let her take a toy from my daughter and made her wait until she was done playing with it. She does not answer questions when questioned about why she is being this way, she just says leave me alone or go away or cries and kicks her feet. She never uses her words to explain what's wrong or what she would like. Even when she's done nothing wrong at all and I ask her what happened (ie they both fell down) she hides and doesn't say anything. Sometimes she will just roll her eyes in the back of her head and make angry faces. I found ignoring this behavior to work best, especially if she's being mean to my daughter. I speak mostly to my daughter by asking her if she's okay, etc. I also tried to get her to ask nicely for a toy if she wants one that's being used, and she refused to no matter how many times I told her, and would throw her little fit and end up in tears. Now when she takes a toy out of my daughter's hands I take it back and give it back to my daughter and say take turns, there is lots of others toys to play with while you wait. Then I focus on my daughter and I find she responds to this 100 times better. I would like to add that she doesn't listen to my sister or anyone, she refuses to eat dinner or her breakfast and instead asks for chips or for cereal at supper. My sister gives it to her. I haven't seen her eat anything other than chips, candy, juice, and cereal since she's been here. I am wondering, could this lack of proper nutrition be causing her mood swings and tantrums? She also hides toys when she's not using them, and throws them down the stairs so my daughter can't ever get them. It is frustrating to see my niece treating my daughter this way, but I always remain calm. My sister is absolutely unopened to any type of criticism or concern, she reacts in anger and says things it's easier than fighting with her and that she's being a four year old. I don't agree, I think they are neglectful and unavailable to their daughter. They do what is easier not what is right. It's very upsetting to see, especially as a family member who loves them all dearly. I've also noticed my 18 MO old getting frustrated with my niece, and is starting to stand up for herself. I'm glad to see this, it shows me she won't let others take advantage of her. But on the other hand I'm glad she loves to share, and loves to make others happy. I believe I've conditioned her this way, especially since I'm about to have another baby. I constantly yeah my daughter to be nice and to be gentle and share her food and toys. Sorry for the big rant.

She sounds like a spoiled little girl who has parents that let her do whatever she wants. I don't think she'll learn how to share or be a good friend to others until she goes to school. I still am not worried as I see a few students like this in Kindergarten each year. Children have to be taught socialization skills, and many aren't equipped with them even at age 4 or 5. I am glad you are doing a great job parenting your daughter. Continue to do what you're doing. You can't change your niece, but I'd try to make small suggestions and corrections while she's there. I'd verbally praise your daughter for doing the correct things. Maybe your niece will learn a few things. Also, continue the good eating habits. I hope your niece will ask for something healthy her cousin is eating.