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I am trying to put in a light fixture where a ceiling fan was. There are three sets of black & white wires with one single red wire. I have located the black wire that is bring power in, but when connected with the white (of the same set) the switch on wall does not turn light off.
You probably have a switch loop. Open the wall switch and tell us what you see. In a typical switch loop, the hot black goes to the switch white and the switch white, marked with black tape, goes to the light hot. How was the fan connected? The red wire would indicate there were possibly 2 switches on the wall.
Dummy me can't tell you how the fan was hooked up.
There are two switches, one by back door and one by kitchen entrance door. The both just control the light. One would be in on position while other was in off position and visa versa.
I looked at the wall switch and there was not the white w/black tape, there was black, white & red. I have tried so many different things trying to find the switch wire, but have had no luck.
Dummy me can't tell you how the fan was hooked up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ma0641
There are two switches, one by back door and one by kitchen entrance door. The both just control the light. One would be in on position while other was in off position and visa versa.
I looked at the wall switch and there was not the white w/black tape, there was black, white & red. I have tried so many different things trying to find the switch wire, but have had no luck.
You have a set of 3-way switches. You could be feeding (bringing the power to) one of the switches. Or you could be feeding the fixture (ceiling fan/light). How you connect the wires in the ceiling depends on whether you are feeding the switch or feeding the fixture.Quote:
There are two switches, one by back door and one by kitchen entrance door. The both just control the light.
You said you have two 2-wire cables and one 3-wire cable. You said you have identified the hot wire. If the hot is the black of one of the two wire cables you are feeding the fixture. If the hot is either the black or the red of the 3-wire cable you are feeding the switch.
If that is true and there is a single switch at each location then the hot wire will be either the red or the black of the 3-wire cable. The switches will NOT have an ON or OFF marking on them.Quote:
There are two switches, one by back door and one by kitchen entrance door. The both just control the light.
You are probably feeding the switch and the hot in the ceiling is the black of the 3-wire cable. There would be no reason to have a 3-wire cable in the ceiling if only the light were controlled by the switches.
Therefore, connect the black (hot) of the 3-wire cable to the two other blacks in the ceiling. Connect the whites of all three cables and the white of the light fixture together. Connect the red of the 3-wire cable to the black of the light fixture.
If the hot in the ceiling is the red of the 3-wire cable, connect it to the blacks of the two 2-wire cables. Connect all the whites together and connect the black of the 3-wire cable to the black of the light fixture.
Either switch should control the light.
Note. You should have one 2-wire cable and two 3-wire cables in one switch box and only a 3-wire cable in the other.
I guess I wasn't as clear as I should have been. In the ceiling I have one single red wire, three black wires (with one of the three hot) and three white wires. Light fixture has two black and two white for two light bulb sockets. As far as the switches go, I know for sure in one of them there is one blk. one white and one red, I would have to look at the other to say for sure if it's how you listed it out above.Quote:
Originally Posted by hkstroud
I am going to attempt this again tomorrow with your methods above, it may have been already tried on my end, I've done so many different variations. I have a feeling I will be messaging you again tomorrow. :-) thank you!
If there are 1 of each 3 colors, you have another switch the same, no "on" or "off". What you are experiencing is a perfect example of why you need to write down the wire connections before removing the object.
OK, a wire is a wire, a cable is two or more wires in an outer covering.
A cable with a black and white would be a 2-wire cable (we don't count the ground).
A 3-wire cable would have black, red and white wires.
Unless you have metal conduit all the wires will be in cables.
You need to describe things in the terms of cables.
In that case I have 3 2-wire cables and 1 cable with just a red wire. I numbered the 2-wire cables as 1, 2 and 3. #3 black is the hot. My son and I have tried different ways of connecting everything one connection he tried last night actually go the switch to cause the breaker to trip (assuming "trip" means shut itself off). It was encouraging to a point. We tried your suggestion above with the three blacks connected together, the whites together WITH the fixture whites and the fixture blacks with the red... no luck. It's getting to a point where I may have to call in someone, this should just be a simple task.
My ceiling fan (even though I'm not sure what was connected where as I didn't remove it) had a white, black and blue wire. Could I be having an issue because my new fixture doesn't have this blue wire? Is it possible that the blue was connected to the red in the ceiling?
I know the importance of notating how something is connected when removing, I have kicked myself in the rear enough over this error. But that doesn't help my situation.
The blue wire in a fan is typically used for a light kit feed.
I see from the above post that you has isolated out three two wire cables and you say just a single red wire? Makes no sense.
In the ceiling, you should have one source cable (black - white - ground). That cable should have a constant voltage when the breaker is on. Can you isolate that cable from all the other two cables? Once you find the source cable, mark it with tape just for identification purposes. Then, shut the breaker off so you do not accidentally toast your fingers.
Next, do you have one wall switch or two? Are the words "ON" / "OFF" embossed on the switch anywhere? This will held us determine what type switch is installed. Pictures would really help us.
A switch interrupts the hot feed to a device. Normally a two wire cable connects the white (with black tape) or at least it should be so marked. That wire will feed the switch. The black in the cable returns the feed to the device. Never return the feed using a white wire, that is a code violation.
If a three wire cable was used, (because neutral (white) is now required to be present in a switch outlet, then the configuration would be , White to all other whites, black to the in connection of the switch and red to the return.
So the circuit would look like this. Black (Source) to White (with black marking) to IN on the switch. Black from the switch to the Black on the light. White (source) to White on the device.
Three wire, All Whites connected together. Black (source) to Black (switch) red (switch return) to Black on the light.
The blue wire in a fan is typically used for a light kit feed.
Could this blue have been connected to the single red wire? The one thing I do know about how the fan came down was that all three whites were together as well as all three blacks and the red alone. I separated the wires.
I see from the above post that you has isolated out three two wire cables and you say just a single red wire? Makes no sense.
There are a lot of things in this crazy house that don't make sense, I just have to deal with them.
In the ceiling, you should have one source cable (black - white - ground). That cable should have a constant voltage when the breaker is on. Can you isolate that cable from all the other two cables? Once you find the source cable, mark it with tape just for identification purposes. Then, shut the breaker off so you do not accidentally toast your fingers.
Ground is a whole other issue, there is no ground. The 3 2-wire cables with black & white wires, I've went through and found that one of the black is hot (which is power coming in right?)
Next, do you have one wall switch or two? Are the words "ON" / "OFF" embossed on the switch anywhere? This will held us determine what type switch is installed. Pictures would really help us.
No ON/OFF on either switch, correct. (There are two switches). I am on my iPad so I can take pics, but not sure how to post them here....
A switch interrupts the hot feed to a device. Normally a two wire cable connects the white (with black tape) or at least it should be so marked. That wire will feed the switch. The black in the cable returns the feed to the device. Never return the feed using a white wire, that is a code violation.
Unless there is black tape on the white wire in my second switch, there is none. Should I open that one and look?
If a three wire cable was used, (because neutral (white) is now required to be present in a switch outlet, then the configuration would be , White to all other whites, black to the in connection of the switch and red to the return.
So the circuit would look like this. Black (Source) to White (with black marking) to IN on the switch. Black from the switch to the Black on the light. White (source) to White on the device.
Three wire, All Whites connected together. Black (source) to Black (switch) red (switch return) to Black on the light.
In the ceiling, I am not sure which black goes to the switch.
Oh just come over and fix it for me, please LOL :-)
My dad would have normally been the one that would come help me out, but I lost him last year. So now this single mom is on her own. :-(
You cannot have a cable with just a red wire. If you have a red wire that is not in a cable with a black and a white someone has done something they shouldn't have done.Quote:
In that case I have 3 2-wire cables and 1 cable with just a red wire.
Any blue wire would be part of the fan/light that was remove and is not any part of this problem.
Quote:
The one thing I do know about how the fan came down was that all three whites were together as well as all three blacks and the red alone. I separated the wires.
If that is correct, that is all you need to know.
Connect all three white wires and the white wires from the light together.
Connect the three black wires together.
Connect the red wire to the black wires going to the light.
If you are not certain of the above statement
Pull the switches out and describe the wiring in each switch.
Also tell me how you identified the hot wire in the ceiling.
You cannot have a cable with just a red wire. If you have a red wire that is not in a cable with a black and a white someone has done something they shouldn't have done.
I did pull the cable with the red out yesterday, now that you mentioned that, and I believe it did have a white & black that were capped off with another of the same color.
If that is correct, that is all you need to know.
Connect all three white wires and the white wires from the light together.
Connect the three black wires together.
Connect the red wire to the black wires going to the light.
I believe we have tried this, but I will try again just in case, we gave tried so many different ways.
If you are not certain of the above statement
Pull the switches out and describe the wiring in each switch.
I will do this as well, I want to do this right!
Also tell me how you identified the hot wire in the ceiling.
when I had them all pulled apart (the blacks & whites) I numbered them and then I tried each pair by itself and there was only one where the light came on when I turned power back on.
There is a small storm here now so I am short of light this evening, kinda dark outside. I can at least do the switched though. I will message again once I have went through your message. I appreciate your help in all this. I sure hope we can get it figured out........ :-)
If that is correct, that is all you need to know.
Connect all three white wires and the white wires from the light together.
Connect the three black wires together.
Connect the red wire to the black wires going to the light.
Okay I did this and it works but ONLY if the switch near my back door is in the "ON" position. It's something I can deal with, I seldom used that switch anyway. Is this dangerous though? I can still disconnect that other switch if need be.
By ON position I suspect you mean the up position.
What happens if the switch is in the down position?
If the switch is down/off position the other switch doesn't work. I'm okay with this if it's not a dangerous situation. It is just like I only have one switch instead of two.
Does the switch by the back door have ON and OFF marked on it?
No it is not dangerous.
If you want we can figure out why it is not working properly.
There is no ON/OFF marked on it, neither one of the switches are. For now, I'm happy I can use my kitchen light (thrilled actually LOL). And like I mentioned before, I seldom used that switch. If it's not dangerous, then we'll just leave it. I taped it up so all of us know not to use it. I appreciate your help, you saved me! Thank you so much! If I decide that I want to figure it out further I'll send you a message. I have a six year old birthday coming up and a vacation. After all that maybe I'll want to tackle it. I now need to get onto the bathroom faucet, it's barely trickling out water... sheesh does it ever end?? You may hear from me regarding questions about that if I run into trouble. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by hkstroud
Thanks again!!
OK, good luck.
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