Once again we are being treated to the "yes you will, no we won't" negotiations over the bankrupt state of Greece and its creditors. I may be a skeptic but wasn't the previous package of measures supposed to fix the problem and yet here we are again seeing the same or additional conditions of the same type being imposed because Greece cannot meet its repayment deadlines. I would like to know, who miscalculated, or who didn't hold up their part of the bargain? If Greece were a company or a household it would have to loose some of its assets. Their debt is something like 170% of their annual income so no surprise they cannot meet their repayments, it's a wonder they can even meet the interest bill. The issue is someone has to pay and all those rich greeks on their greek islands have to pay for their place in the sun. So perhaps the german and EU banks could impose a site rental on those islands to get their money back. At the very least they should stop the flight of capital out of the country and what's this nonsense about no VAT on electricity, I have to pay a tax on electricity

EU will not let them fail. Impose restrictions that are too harsh and they default, which another bailout is basically defaulting. Turkey is probably next. People need jobs to get paid and spend money. Bailouts are bad. Just like in the USA, bailing out the big automakers prevented reform. Restructuring through bankruptcy is not a bad thing. It's also like the USA with the postal service, which loses what, 8 billion dollars each quarter? Just because something was a good idea 200 years ago doesn't make it a good idea now.

Yes socialism was a good idea a hundred years ago and it isn't a good idea now or at least the greek version which appears to be everyone is on the government payroll being paid money borrowed from other countries and the greeks expect that these countries will just accept cents on the dollar. In ancient times they had a remedy for this sort of thing, invade and take the population into slavery. But we are too enlightened to do such things today.

They want restructed loans, how about a no interest loan, now they could afford that, but it seems they can't afford the other terms which involve a lifestyle change. The answer is to set up tarriff barriers so expensive goods cannot be imported, all those lovely toys the EU makes. If they won't pay income tax, abolish income tax and use a VAT

Oliver ;right on ! Also not a great idea is 'too big to fail' . Here in the US we have codified it with Dodd Frank. The EU believes that Greece is too big to fail. Cut em loose and let them float the Drachma . It would be a devalued currency .But in the long run it would be better off if they weren't tied to the Euro.

Yes Tom but what to do about all those loans they are going to default on. In banking you either get your principle back or you get your interest or you get the collateral. There is no collateral. If you cut them loose you are just saying off you got don't do it again. Look at Argentina it has been down this road a couple of times, still a basket case economy and yet there is a powerhouse economy right next door. No, the EU needs to take equity, their power industry, their ports. It isn't they are too big to fail, it is that the ripple effect will destabilise the Euro which has already seen major adjustments in value, at a time when they may be facing a threat from Russia.

I think the whole situation has become just too hard and the only way out is extend the loans and not give Greece any more money.

Greece has conditioned the EU response. Their politicians either won't or are incapable of making good decisions. The result is Greece fails, EU bails them out. If you allow Greece to collapse you will probably be facing at least two major events. Cyprus will probably collapse because those economies are tied closely together. Second we would probably see mass exodus and a flooding into other countries by the Greeks. And you could probably add chaos as a third.

Innovation and innovative thinkers are needed while their corrupt Government needs a spanking. How about huge incentives for European businesses to relocate their manufacturing to Greece. Putting people back to work is one step. But you have to get rid of corruption.

Do you actually think there is a work ethic in Greece, if there were EU companies would already be taking advantage of lower costs. It is not only corruption, there is a problem of taxation collection and unsustainable pensions and public service. This is what happens when you have a nanny economy. I don't think the rest of EU should cop it, if greeks want to migrate for work they have that option in EU, why do the companies have to go to them. No let Greece fail, Cyprus is already a basket case, and leave the EU.

What is going on there 26% unemployment and Europe on their doorstep

I don't know that much about the Greeks or their culture. It seems both need a reboot. Economic sustainability is far from rocket science. It's when you introduce political influences and people it all falls apart. Give me the US economy. I'd lose the postal service obviously and privatize mail. I'd lose the IRS and go to the flat or fair tax. With environmental concerns I'd drill for oil. To have our economy tied to outside political groups is just really stupid. Last and not least I'd send Dennis Hastert to ISIS because I'm so disappointed in him (should the allegations be true).

Big difference between a few million people in a place without much resources and the US. What works in one place doesn't work in another. You can get away with deficit budgetting and obviously they can't but they are a caution for what could happen to you. You have an efficient IRS they don't. Don't look for radical solutions. As far a mail is concerned, it is a dying service everywhere and you just have to increase the cost and allow the market to determine whether it wants the service. And drill baby drill, be energy sufficient and go on beggering your neighbour

Based on recent history, events, and some political corruption, there are probably those who would argue the efficiency of the IRS.

I wasn't trying to compare the US economy with theirs. The economic stimulus has to fit the country. Having said that it's still not rocket science. But some political leaders have their own interests in mind and progress can't be made.

Indeed the current greek government was elected on a platform of abandoning these agreements and obviously they want to show progress on winding back austerity, however they are not realistic, there has to be a lot of pain and unfortunately in Greece, as in other places, the rich are not going to step up, so it is others who face the pain. I lived in a long time in a regime where salaries could not increase, not quite the same, but adjustments have to be made. You have options, leave or accept the change. THE GREEKS ARE IN THE SAME POSITION but they fail to realise that you cannot negotiate from a position of destitution

It is only a question of when, not if, the Europeans pull the plug on Greece . Further ,at this point at least there is no advantage to being a strategic partner with Greece. That could change if Turkey ,in it's quest to recreate the Ottoman Empire turns their gaze to the Aegean .

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I'd lose the postal service obviously and privatize mail. I'd lose the IRS and go to the flat or fair tax. With environmental concerns I'd drill for oil. To have our economy tied to outside political groups is just really stupid. Last and not least I'd send Dennis Hastert to ISIS because I'm so disappointed in him (should the allegations be true).

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Again right on .

About Hastert ...... the allegations against him are disgusting .However ,I do have a problem with the charges being levied against him. It really should not be criminal behavior to withdraw money from the bank .

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It really should not be criminal behavior to withdraw money from the bank .

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It's not. He was reported to the FBI by the banks. And an adult sexually approaching a minor is more than disgusting, it's criminal! Because he wasn't caught when he was doing it, and before the statute of limitations ran out is disgusting. That he rose to prominence, and got rich after the deed was done is disgusting.

Let the Europeans and the Middle East clean up it's own disgusting mess!

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It's not. He was reported to the FBI by the banks.

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again ;why is his taking money out of the bank cause for him to be reported to the FBI ? It's a very stupid requirement .

Here is more info: Yahoo!

He wasn't indicted just for taking money out of the bank. He's charged with "evading bank regulations by withdrawing $952,000 in increments of less than $10,000 to skirt reporting requirements. " Those requirements apply to all US citizens.

Off topic and I took us there - I had a lot of respect for Hastert as Speaker. I do remember thinking he was very quiet on the Mark Foley travesty. And now we know why. Very disappointed Mr. Hatert!

The Europeans don't need Greece, Turkey, and Cyprus to fail. It brings anarchy to the region and invites groups like ISIS to assume they can have a safe haven there.

Maybe the Europeans can treat their poor states the way we do... send 'em welfare checks. No interest. No pay back! What, you didn't know we had poor states in the US?

The 10 Poorest States In America - Business Insider

To all intents and purposes Cyprus gave us an indication of what would happen if Greece leaves the EU, but money is already fleeing Greece so there is no investment which might bring the country back. Turkey is not part of EU so if it fails its impacts are local and it wouldn't help Daesh because they have probably been helping them if for no other reason than facilitating the flow of foreign fighters. Daesh is not a threat to Turkey which has a large military and the will to use it.

The EU has to bail Greece out so that instability doesn't spread throughout the Balkans but it won't be on reduced terms

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Maybe the Europeans can treat their poor states the way we do... send 'em welfare checks. No interest. No pay back! What, you didn't know we had poor states in the US?

The 10 Poorest States In America - Business Insider

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That is what they have been doing Tal or as good as. Greece needs new deal program. Maybe the US should adopt Greece sort of take it off the hands of the EU in exchange for a base after all it worked for Diego Garcia.

I took a look at your poor states report Tal and I find it interesting that for the most part those who top the poverty list are the states who lost the civil war 150 years ago. I have no doubt there are other factors, such as the size of former slave populations and the vagarities of climate but this is the outcome of change in the social order and a proof that the rich keep their money and keep their job creation close to home.

You have now discovered it was cheaper to keep those slaves growing cotton than it is to have them unemployed. Let's move to your other war of liberation, Iraq, strangely unnerving that we see a scenario unfolding which will lead to generational poverty in that place also. In this case the shiia have been freed and there is an ongoing civil war. Could it be that the price of democracy is a disadvantage for a large percentage of the population

I come from the great state that Mark Foley represented. How's Florida doing?