Ask Me Help Desk - Water pump pressure problems

Hey guys, I'm new to the site and have a problem. My family and I just bought an older homestead that has had some renos done... new wiring, piping, basement, windows, etc. But the pump and 4gal tank was ancient and started causing us some issues by not holding pressure. There seems to be plenty of water with no dirt showing but quite a lot of air coming through the faucets. The well is shallow.

I decided to replace the pump with a new shallow well Duro. The old pump had a check valve installed on the line (single line) and I decided to replace the check valve as well with a new one. When the plumber replaced the pump, he also checked the tank for air pressure and discovered it had very little air so he pressurized the tank to 28psi.

The new system still has the same issues as the old pump and check valve had. The pump will not always build up pressure after opening a faucet until it kicks in. It will sometimes drop to zero or drop to 20psi and go no further. About half the time after the gauge reaches 50psi, it will start to slowly drop back to 35-40psi without any running water anywhere (already checked for line leaks in the house and can't find any). If I shut the pump off and wait only a few seconds, it will build the pressure back up to 50psi (30-50psi). If it holds at 50psi, which it will about half the time, I seem to have lots of water as the pump will kick in and out normally to use the clothes washing machine, shower, dishwasher, etc. I can also hear water trickling in the pump when it's at max pressure. As water likes gravity and the tank is above the pump, I'm thinking that it's water trickling out of the tank... is this a normal sound? Maybe I need a new tank?

Any advice would be appreciated before I take the final step and dig up the well.

Quote:

If I shut the pump off and wait only a few seconds, it will build the pressure back up to 50psi (30-50psi).

Did you mean to say "If I turn the pump on"?
Do you have a stop valve between the pump and the tank?

OK, if I shut the pump off, wait a few seconds then turn it back on, the pressure will return to 50psi but not every time, it takes two or three tries. Just this morning, I was having trouble with it holding pressure but my son needed to shower. On the second attempt, the pump worked normally and my son was able to use the shower. There is no stop valve between the pump and tank.

How far from the tank is the pressure switch?
Is this a submersible pump or above ground pump?

No reason that I can see to dig up the well. If pressure drops when the pump cuts off, even though no water is being used, then you have a leak somewhere. If you don't have shut-off valves going to the well and to the house, then finding the leak can be challenging. In the house, a slowly leaking toilet is a likely culprit. Turn off the angle stop leading to the toilet and see if that helps. With a new CV going to the well, it would not seem likely that that is an issue EXCEPT that you say you can hear some water gurgling in the pump as though the pump has water passing though it. It doesn't need gravity to do that. The tank is sitting there with 50 or so psi and it will push water anywhere there is a leak. Since CVs are cheap, and if there are no leaks in the house, then I'd try replacing the CV first.

Quote:

quite a lot of air coming through the faucets.

That sure sounds like you are pumping at least some air. If that's the case, then the water table might be occasionally dropping below the level of the footvalve. That would also explain why the pump is going but not building pressure.

I don't think you need a new tank. However, you said a 4 gallon tank. Did you mean a 40 gallon tank? If it's only 4, and I can't imagine that is the case, then you really need a larger tank.

Pressure switch is located on the pump with the tank just screwed to the top of the pump... literally inches away.

It's an above ground pump and I'm not sure if I have a foot valve in the well.

Yes, it's a 4gal tank... about the size of two basket balls. A friend has told me that I should replace it with at least a twenty gallon tank.

Interesting that you mention a leaking toilet. My wife has noticed that the water level in the upstairs toilet bowl seems to drop after a while. I'll look into that possibility more carefully.

Update: My well head is located in a vertical concrete pipe 3 1/2 ft in dia and 4ft deep and about 15ft from the house... pretty convenient. My FIL and I removed the well cap this morning and hauled up the hose. There is plenty of water... the well is about 40ft deep and the water starts 4ft from the top. There is no foot valve. After the hose dries off in the sun we'll check for leaks in the well hose. If that turns up nil we'll check the hose from the pump to the well head for leaks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballistic_trep

Update: My well head is located in a vertical concrete pipe 3 1/2 ft in dia and 4ft deep and about 15ft from the house... pretty convenient. My FIL and I removed the well cap this morning and hauled up the hose. There is plenty of water... the well is about 40ft deep and the water starts 4ft from the top. There is no foot valve. After the hose dries off in the sun we'll check for leaks in the well hose. If that turns up nil we'll check the hose from the pump to the well head for leaks.

I'd replace the CV (just to be safe... like I said earlier, they are cheap) and put on a footvalve. That will ensure that the water is not leaking backwards into the well. With a four gallon pressure tank, it sounds more like a booster pump that you are using. Your pump is going to constantly be cycling on/off when water is being used because of the small tank. I would put in 30 or 40 gallon tank. It doesn't have to be next to the pump. It can, for instance, be in the house. You just want to be sure the switch is next to the tank, and that might require some rewiring. So it might come down to finding the largest tank you can, but with the qualifier that it will fit in the same area as the pump. Be sure you get a tank that has a diaphragm like you have in this example: Shop Water Worker 32-Gallon Vertical Pressure Tank at Lowes.com With only a four gallon tank, any little leak becomes magnified since you can only draw a gallon or so of water before the pump has to cut back on. With a larger tank, that figure might be ten gallons, and hence you would not notice your pump cutting on so much, even with that small leak. Your pump will love you if you get it a larger tank!

And let me add this. The purpose of the CV is to prevent water from running from the tank back into the well once the pump has shut off. If you had no CV, then all the water in the tank would simply run backwards until pressure dropped enough to trigger the pump. A footvalve performs basically the same function, so in your case you would have two valves working together. The advantage of having one above ground is to make it easier to service. If the footvalve goes bad, you have to haul up the wellpipe. It is just easier to simply replace a CV above ground.

OK, we decided to shorten the well hose by a few feet as we noticed some sediment around the end of the hose. We also installed a foot valve. So now my new pump has a check valve and a foot valve. After getting everything back together it seems my pump is running normally. The water is a little dirty and needs some time to settle down but we're keeping our fingers crossed that we may have inadvertently solved the problem. One concern my FIL has is the 1" dia hose in the well... he thinks it may be too narrow but time will tell.

I'm definitely planning on purchasing a much larger tank.

1" is fine.

The big question is going to be this: Will the pressure hold steady when the pump is off and no water is being used?

What on earth is an "FIL"??

The water started to clear yesterday evening and the pressure in the tank held steady overnight. For those not in the know, FIL stands for father-in-law.

Thank you to everyone who offered advice......much appreciated.

Always good to have water. Evidently I am not in the know. Never heard of the FIL deal, but I know now!

God bless.