I overheard a doctor and medical staff joking about the condition of a patient being treated- is that a HIPAA law violation?

Was the patient identified by name, Do you work for the practice?

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Was the patient identified by name, Do you work for the practice?

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No the patient was not identified by name but enough information was given that I could figure out who the patient was and no I do not work for the practice- I was being seen and the patient was in the waiting area.

No name mentioned, it doesn't matter if you 'thought' you knew who they were talking about; it cannot be proven. This is not a HIPAA violation.

I would at least bring up your concerns with the head of the department or the Doctor in charge of the clinic, as the behavior was inappropriate and unprofessional by the staff.

Before or after HIPAA, it's the sort of thing I would write a short note to the head of the place about.

Having doctor and nurse friends, I do know that they tend to joke, either to handle the stress of seeing death and suffering, or to handle annoying patients. They should try to avoid the latter type of jokes, I think. I would say so.

Just as an example of what may seem very callous to a lot of people: code for final stages of dying might be O (mouth open), Q (mouth open with tongue hanging out), and dotted Q (fly resting on the tongue). Awful? Not when you are around dying all day, every day - you need some comic relief.

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Originally Posted by joypulv

Before or after HIPAA, it's the sort of thing I would write a short note to the head of the place about.

Having doctor and nurse friends, I do know that they tend to joke, either to handle the stress of seeing death and suffering, or to handle annoying patients. They should try to avoid the latter type of jokes, I think. I would say so.

Just as an example of what may seem very callous to a lot of people: code for final stages of dying might be O (mouth open), Q (mouth open with tongue hanging out), and dotted Q (fly resting on the tongue). Awful? Not when you are around dying all day, every day - you need some comic relief.

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Huh? What? I've never seen that.

No, this is not a HIPAA violation, but it is very close. While we tend to joke and decompress, so to speak, the patient's name was not mentioned, nor was the diagnosis. It can only be "assumed" who the patient was.

While this was not a violation, it was in very poor taste and unethical.

When you consider HIPAA, you have to think in terms of doctor/patient privilege.

Nope, never seen that code either. I sometimes find a client passed away upon arriving for rising care; have VON (Victoria Order) nurse called for 'pronouncing'; attend while she writes report; no code just perfectly sensible notations. We don't joke.

I didn't make those up - couldn't!
As I said, both doctors and nurses. Referring to ICUs and geriatric units and so on, where there is a lot of death, every day. Didn't mean to malign the medical profession, nor do I think I did.

Heck Joy, never said you did do any maligning, but I have just never seen any notes like this and I go into nursing homes to attend geriatric clients and never see this on nurses' notes when a death has occurred. Usually I don't see any mouths open in death, face is in repose, give or take a little mottling in cheeks and around mouth.

I shouldn't have said 'code,' I guess. I meant secret language when talking to other staff in the presence of other people.

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Originally Posted by J_9

Huh? What? I've never seen that.

No, this is not a HIPAA violation, but it is very close. While we tend to joke and decompress, so to speak, the patient's name was not mentioned, nor was the diagnosis. It can only be "assumed" who the patient was.

While this was not a violation, it was in very poor taste and unethical.

When you consider HIPAA, you have to think in terms of doctor/patient privilege.

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I have to apologize for leaving some information out of my original post but yes a diagnosis was mentioned as well as some other personal and patient specific information stated that made it very possible to identify the patient.

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Originally Posted by pready

I would at least bring up your concerns with the head of the department or the Doctor in charge of the clinic, as the behavior was inappropriate and unprofessional by the staff.

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The CEO as well as Director of Medicine have been notified and are taking it very seriously. An investigation has been launched. It saddens me that people who go into a profession to provide help to others have become so callous and unprofessional. Other complaints have been lodged against this facility. This is not the first incident of unprofessionalism and I am sure it won't be the last.