Hello:

Although right wingers will DENY it, we ALL know who Paul Ryan was talking about when he said,

“We have got this tailspin of culture, in our inner cities in particular, of men not working and just generations of men not even thinking about working or learning the value and the culture of work, and so there is a real culture problem here that has to be dealt with.”

Here's WHY you'll deny it. Ronald Reagan confidant Lee Atwater, traced the evolution.

Quote:

---

”You start out in 1954 by saying, 'N—-r, n—-r, n—-r,'” Atwater explained. “By 1968 you can't say 'n—-r' — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, 'We want to cut this,' is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than 'N—-r, n—-r.”'

Treating intergenerational laziness of inner-city men as established truth, and bemoaning the ways social spending programs supposedly nurture that “culture,” blends seamlessly into Atwater's framework.

There are ways to promote conservative social policies that aren't remotely racialized — they just don't ignite the passions of resentful white people in a politically meaningful way. If I'm wrong, though, conservatives better hope the party doesn't nominate Ryan or any like-minded thinkers in 2016.

A quick point of trivia: I first learned about Atwater's comments years ago, in this New York Times column by Bob Herbert questioning why anybody was surprised to hear GOP education secretary--talk radio host Bill Bennett say, “I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could — if that were your sole purpose — you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down.”

---

I don't often quote news sources in my questions.. But, this one is sooo right on, that I made an exception. Yeah, it's from a left wing rag. Uhhh, what do you think I am?

excon

I don't know about you Ex, but I am used to the right playing the race card to fire up their base during an election cycle. They aren't talking to sensible folks, just the ones that listen to and believe that crap. Of course they deny it, as Ryan did the next day, but citing a racist is a dead give away.

Odd since in reality it's the Left that uses the race card every chance they get... and then some.

Hello smoothy:

Look. I KNEW you'd accuse me of playing the race card.. But, as long as I did, you can certainly COMMENT. If you're not afraid, that is.. Clearly, you're a PRIME example of one who buys into the myth that inter-generational laziness of black men IS an established truth.

It AIN'T.

excon

Naw the left is made up of many minorities, not just old white guys, and we listen to the concerns of all the constituents. That's not playing the race card, that's just being INCLUSIVE, and recognizing the greater diversity of the voters of our side. Of course you would call it playing the race card because you aren't listening to anyone but conservative right wingers.

And you hate it when confronted with your own racism. But don't blame your own fears and prejudices on us. That's your own problem to deal with and if you want to ignore Paul Ryan quoting a racist, that's your business.

Lefty's and all the minorities that make up the left understand.

The emperor says fewer Black, Latino young men participate in the labor force than young white men .Is he being racist too ? Seems to me that Ryan was just telling the truth .

btw ... here is what Ryan REALLY said :

Bennett — lifting people out of poverty — what is the plan?
Ryan — work works — it’s all about getting people to work — welfare reform of 90s — we were excoriated — it worked, but dozens of welfare programs were not reformed — they now make it harder for people to get into work — we call it a poverty trap — incentives not to work — not what we want — we need to reform welfare programs as in 1996 — try to get people into work force — want everyone to maximize potential, push for equality of opportunity —
— we have proven that work is important, there is dignity in it — self-worth — lots of people slipping through the cracks, not reaching their potential

Bennett — millenials are setting records in terms of not working — from Pew report — it’s partly the economy, partly policy — there is a cultural aspect — boys learn how to work from men

Ryan — lost my dad, mentors and my Mom taught me to work —

Bennett — fatherless problem is a big one

Ryan — absolutely — that’s the tailspin or spiral that we’re looking at in our communities — your buddy Charles Murray or Bob Putnam over at Harvard, those guys have written books on this, which is, we have got this tailspin of culture in our inner cities in particular of men not working and just generations of men not even thinking about working or learning the value and the culture of work — so there is a real culture problem here that has to be dealt with. Everybody’s got to get involved. So this is what we talk about when we talk about civil society. If you’re driving from the suburb to the sports arena downtown by these blighted neighborhoods, you can’t just say “I’m paying my taxes, government’s going to fix that.” You need to get involved. You need to get involved yourself, whether through a good mentor program or some religious charity, whatever it is to make a difference, and that’s how we help resuscitate our culture.

The Dems are being dishonest in their vicious smear of Ryan in their fundraisers . Ryan was encouraging his listeners to get personally involved in mentoring “inner city” youth from “blighted neighborhoods” so that they can have “equal opportunity” and “reach their full potential.”

No he wasn't and his budget reflects the true meaning of his words, cut poor people 's safety net, benefits, and make old people pay for rich guys tax cuts. Read it for yourself, but you probably agree. Its been the same spiel from repubs for longer than 30 years.

The results have always been rich guys get richer, and poor guys get poorer. Its based on the proposition that rich guys are smart, and poor people are dumb, but its noted you use minorities for the dumb part and scare poor white folks into think they need protection from the lazy dumb minorities who will take what they have and rape their women.

Its an old strategy that uses fear to leverage vote. The sad part is Tom, Ryan's budget "idea", already rejected once affects poor republicans that out number poor democrats in actuality as red districts have as many poor people as the inner city, a sure reference to race.

I bet if you tied rich guy taxes to the REAL unemployment rate, you would get better results... but noooooooooooooo! We can't ask a rich guy to add to the prosperity of the Nation he thrives in. So get those lazy poor people who outnumber jobs 4 to1.

Enough of that supply side trickle down voodoo economics. Just a fancy way to say rob everybody, and hoard the money, and blame it on the guy who got ROBBED.

It was crap 30 years ago, its crap NOW!

I've heard the same tired schtick from the race bating libs since they were trashing one of their own .... Daniel Patrick Moynahan, for essentially saying the same thing. All you Dems want to do is keep the black man down on the Democrat plantation.

you don't need to fear the barbarians at the gates, you need to fear the barbarians within. In another time these minorities would have employment they would be pilaging all over the place

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

I've heard the same tired schtick from the race bating libs since they were trashing one of their own .... Daniel Patrick Moynahan, for essentially saying the same thing. All you Dems want to do is keep the black man down on the Democrat plantation.

---

Democratic plantations pay more and have better benefits than Republican plantations. That's an historical fact. And republicans keep everybody down, except fat, greedy, rich massa's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paraclete

you don't need to fear the barbarians at the gates, you need to fear the barbarians within. In another time these minorities would have employment they would be pilaging all over the place

---

We don't have barbarians here any more Clete just rich guys who steal all the loot, and the ones that let 'em! But we will eventually round up all those varmits too!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by excon

Hello smoothy:

Look. I KNEW you'd accuse me of playing the race card.. But, as long as I did, you can certainly COMMENT. If you're not afraid, that is.. Clearly, you're a PRIME example of one who buys into the myth that inter-generational laziness of black men IS an established truth.

It AIN'T.

excon

---

I didn't say you specifically... but you must have felt guilty about it.

You must because You claim they are just not smart enough or capable of it without handouts and special treatment... I on the other hand claim they are just as capable as the Koreans down the street... The white guy in the next building... and all those illegals in the same building that seem to all find jobs.

So which is it... they just aren't as good as the rest of us... so they need special treatment to compete with everyone else (which the Democrats Champion)... or are they really just as smart and capable as the rest of us believe on the right... and the left just thinks they should get an unfair advantage purely because they vote democrat on average?

Because if they are incapable of getting off their butts and working because of something that ended over 10 generations ago... Anyone of Irish, Scottish or German decent (and a few others) deserve even more because of what happened up until recent years and in some cases still happens today. If you want to be fair you include these groups too. Or isn't the intent to be fair what's really behind it?

This is really about giving special privileges to reward fellow Democrats at the expense of everyone else.

How about we really step it up and fast track the Special-ed kids into medical programs to staff Obamacare facilities. You can lower standards and give them preferential treatment into the medical schools to assue they can work as doctors, surgeons and such being they are so under represented in those fields..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by talaniman

Democratic plantations pay more and have better benefits than Republican plantations. That's an historical fact. And republicans keep everybody down, except fat, greedy, rich massa's.



We don't have barbarians here any more Clete just rich guys who steal all the loot, and the ones that let 'em! But we will eventually round up all those varmits too!

---

yeah I know that's the game plan .. Anyone who doesn't comply to the utopian ideal has to be eliminated .

disadvantage happens everywhere, things change but people don't. You speak of generations and maybe the problem is generational but let's not avoid the racial implications, people who have been subject to discrimination don't think the same way as those who havn't, they don't see opportunity in the same way. Unemployment is endemic in some places and no amount of telling them to get off their butt will make any difference. maybe the problem isn't curtural, it's medical, depression ahs taken over

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paraclete

disadvantage happens everywhere, things change but people don't. You speak of generations and maybe the problem is generational but let's not avoid the racial implications, people who have been subject to discrimination don't think the same way as those who havn't, they don't see opportunity in the same way. Unemployment is endemic in some places and no amount of telling them to get off their butt will make any difference. maybe the problem isn't curtural, it's medical, depression ahs taken over

---

When their parents are lazy and on welfare and teach their kids to be lazy and on welfare... its their fault... not ours.

In fact I've worked with enough blacks over the last 3+ decades to know this isn't a "black thing", none of them were lazy..or dumb, or disadvantaged, ... its a lazy family thing. When you have families that are on the third, fourth or fith generations of being welfare bums... you blame the welfare bums....not "whitey".

Make welare a one year and the checks end thing....then see how a little hunger motivates them to get jobs.

So the best you got is rich guys getting richer? That's not even close to a Utopia, and we can do better that what we are doing now. Poor people didn't crash the global finances, greedy rich guys did. They aren't suffering, poor people are. Hell, you guys have made it so it takes a million bucks to buy bread and milk for the kid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smoothy

When their parents are lazy and on welfare and teach their kids to be lazy and on welfare... its their fault... not ours.

---

Well said by the guy who supports taxpayers subsidizing big corporate profits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by talaniman

Well said by the guy who supports taxpayers subsidizing big corporate profits.

---

We get something in return for that... JOBS. WHat has the last 80 years of welfare done for the nation? Except waste trillions of dollars?

Ths might be a good thread and a good day (St. Patrick's Day) to inject some facts about the Irish Famine.

IN 1848, Ireland was producing plenty of grain and livestock (more than enough to feed its people) but it was all exported under the ideology of "free trade". To feed the starving Irish was seen to "create a culture of dependence" (sound familiar?) According to Charles Trevelyan (later knighted), who was in charge of Irish "relief", the Irish were lazy, barbaric, illiterate, and crude, and he spoke of the famine as "an effective mechanism for reducing surplus population".

For what historians call his "genocidal programs", he was knighted by Queen Victoria. No, I'm not making this up.

One million Irish died of starvation, another million left never to return. To this day, Ireland is the only country in Europe to have a smaller population than it did 150 years ago.

Paul Ryan, in a recent speech, claimed to be a descendent of an Irishman emigrating because of the horrible conditions in 1848. Yet, Ryan has the incredible gall (stupidty?) to characterize today's poor with the same or similar terms as Trevelyan did so many years ago.

Republicans, with not a scintilla of shame, continue this hateful ideology

Here is a short article explaining the sorry similarities between then and now.

http://nyti.ms/1ktf2b0

Oppression of the Irish wasn't all about the Potato Famine... it started centuries before that... and continued long after it. And it can be argued it still continues to this day. Though at lower levels than in the past. Still happens in Scotland too.


My grandfather left shortly after WW1 to come here. My Scottish Grandfather left around the same time (though I don't know exact years). Both Grandmothers left Germany roughly the same period of time as well. They were raising families here when WW2 broke out....(my parents, aunts and uncles)

The Irish oppression goes back a thousand years to when they bloodied the nose of the northmen at the battle of Clontaf, we will very soon celebrate the one thousandth anniversary of that battle

Battle Of Clontarf | Clontarf.ie

And the scottish oppression goes back to the normans, relatives of those self same northmen. I have a great idea the Irish and the Scots should band together and drive the invader out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by talaniman

So the best you got is rich guys getting richer? That's not even close to a Utopia, and we can do better that what we are doing now. Poor people didn't crash the global finances, greedy rich guys did. They aren't suffering, poor people are. Hell, you guys have made it so it takes a million bucks to buy bread and milk for the kid.



Well said by the guy who supports taxpayers subsidizing big corporate profits.

---

Who are these "rich guys" you refer to? We don't even make the average median income in my town.