Ask Me Help Desk - Why are glued and dried joints slipping off pipes?

Here in North Central Florida, we had to replace 40 feet of pvc pipe after the entire water pipe system totally froze in the last freeze due to a water flow regulator that did not work properly. Repairs were completed after 4 days of no water and the water was run that night as it was to be below freezing again. Someone came onto our property and turned the water off. That morning, one elbow joint completely came off, fell off, the pipe. This pipe is connected to the pipe coming up from the ground bringing the water up from the street. That area of pipe was redesigned and re-glued together. After at least 3 hours glue drying time, the water was turned on. Approx. 4 minutes later, an elbow joint fell off the pipe again. We have no idea how to fix this. We are both disabled with limited income and cannot afford a plumber. The house is over 100 years old but this plumbing is not that old. Can anyone help us please? Thank you!

PVC? What are you using to glue it?

The glue is brand name "For CPVC AND PVC ALL PURPOSE CEMENT'. LoVOC compliant. New container. We understand and took into account that it cures slower at lower temperatures. That's why it took 4 days for the original repairs - we had to wait until it warmed up enough to work outside on it. In fact, the first joint that failed had been glued together inside the house in a room that was at least 70 degrees F.

If PVC cement ever freezes, even if thawed, is useless.
Suggest Oatey PVC Blue (and primer)
www.oatey.com/doc/oatey-pvc-rainrshine-medium-blue-cement.pdf‎

Thank you for the suggestions. I texted my husband about the primer. I have never seen a primer used before in pvc plumbing. He used a new container of Oatey with the red label. I wasn't sure if I should/could use brand names here. Any ideas as to why one joint would fail and not all? On a couple of streets over, the city is changing water mains to a larger diameter. The image I see in my head is that the water is too fast or the amount is too large so it pushes the joint off. But nothing has changed that much so I know that image is not true. You really don't realize what you've got till it's gone.

I don't know much about water regulators but would be interested how it caused the water to freeze. Did it stop normally flowing water to stop flowing?
Sounds like you may have been lucky that the joints weren't properly cemented as the freezing water pushed the joints apart instead of bursting the pipe.

smearcase, flow regulators are advertised and promoted as adjusting the flow of water as temps change. The two most popular at least here are the half-gallon a minute and the one-gallon. As it gets colder and closer to freezing, the water flow is supposed to increase to keep the water flowing when it gets close to 32 degrees F. That way, you don't have tons of water coming out of the faucet when you only need a small stream, but the flow increases as it gets colder. They have worked for us in the past, but not this time. The water that had spread out on the ground froze, the stream of water up to the faucet froze, as did all the water in the pipes. There was even ice coming out of the kitchen faucet. Most of the 40 foot pipes that were replaced shattered into pieces that are sharp enough to cut you. The pipes are being pushed apart when the water is turned back on after repairs are made. I spoke with my husband twice yesterday and he stated he has never heard of or used pvc primers in his 30 plus years of plumbing work, but I did get him to buy a new container of cement, as he stated even the new container he just bought had frozen. It was too cold to work yesterday, today is to be warmer, so here's to hoping!

A flow regulator will not stop a pipe from freezing...only regulates flow. Here, if a pipe sits long enough without flow (i.e., no fixtures running water in the home), and the ambient temperature dips below freezing long enough, water will begin to freeze and eventually burst pipes (as you well know now).

Now, for sure you need a PVC PRIMER when installing PVC pipes that will carry potable (drinking) water that is, of course, under PRESSURE...no question about that, OK? The only exception to this rule that I am aware of would be GORILLA PVC cement (considered a self-priming cement).

Have your husband read the PVC cement can carefully and make sure that it states it can be used on PRESSURIZED PVC pipe systems (or potable water systems). If the statement is not on the can, then it should not be used for this application and you will need to find the proper PVC cement for this application.

Good luck!

Mark

The red label Oatey is an all purpose solvent cement for ABS, CPVC and PVC pipe, as you know. Read label, a primer is required for PVC and CPVC. Temperature requirements is between 40 and 90 degrees.

There is something going on here that we don't know about.

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I spoke with my husband twice yesterday and he stated he has never heard of or used pvc primers in his 30 plus years of plumbing work

I find that amazing.

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the first joint that failed had been glued together inside the house in a room that was at least 70 degrees F

That should eliminate any temperature.

You said;

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but I did get him to buy a new container of cement, as he stated even the new container he just bought had frozen

He should return it and purchase from a supplier that has not allowed it to freeze.

Homes can have pressure regulators but I have never heard of a flow regulator in a residence. What is its purpose? How does it work . You regulate the flow by opening the faucet more or less. Why would you want to regulate flow based on temperature? Opening a faucet slightly reduces the chance of freezing simply because the water in the pipe is constantly being replaced by warmer incoming water. Increasing or reducing the flow would not affect the freezing temperature of water. If you have ice coming out of a faucet you have a section of pipe that is right at the freezing temperature.
Could the flow regulator be a pressure regulator? If you indeed do have a flow regulator it would have no affect unless a faucet is open because without a faucet open, there is no flow.

As I said earlier, there is something here we don't know. We know what cement you are using, can you post pictures of the pipe and those regulators.

Could it be that the work being done on the water system has increased your water pressure?
Copper pipe splits when it freezes and burst. PVC pipe shatters. PVC can also shatter from too much pressure.

Let's see if I can answer everything. Our home is a 100 plus year old home with no central heat or air. The new cement can froze after it was brought home, not in the store. Today my husband stated he had noticed that the cement was not clear when he used it yesterday as it should have been, but he used it anyway. He is terminally ill, and maybe this was due to problems with his thinking processes. Husband does repair work on pipes, it is not his employment. He stated he has not ever used primer, nor does any of his friends, whether they be professional plumbers or not. One of them works as an apartment manager and is constantly repairing pipes. Husband tried to clean up the way the pipes were put together (ie. Remove some of the angles and put in straight lines) and apparently that made for a wrong angle. Adding a jog, a nipple, and a 45 degree elbow has apparently solved the problem. For some reason, if something is not supposed to work in a certain fashion in the normal world, that is indeed the way it will work on this place. The regulator was screwed onto an outside hose bibb, so the water is running but at a slow rate. You turn the faucet on all the way open, but the water does not flow at that pace unless it is near freezing (ie warm temps will have a trickle of water coming from the faucet - as it gets colder, the amount of water increases. As it gets warmer again, the amount of water decreases, though the faucet itself is still turned as open as it will go). We wonder if it is sediments that caused the problems - we have been advised not to drink the water or use it for animals without it going through a filter first due to all the minerals. I have not ever felt the water get warmer the longer it runs. I had thought of the water main pipe work causing problems, but we are the only ones with problems. Also, they are placing larger diameter pipes in the ground (going from 2 inch to 6 inch diameter pipes), which should decrease the intensity of the water, but turbulence could be an issue. According to what I read on the cement can. The temperatures ranged for use from 40 degrees F to 110 degrees F. Both of us read the directions and everything else. The water has been back on for about 2 hours now and all faucets and water closet have been used. I hope things continue to work well. I thank everyone who has answered and read this request for help. How may I help you?