Hello, I am new to the site. Hopefully this isn't a repeat post. I thought that I had posted before, but I can't find it. Nonetheless, here is the question. I have an older year Montgomery Ward ridding lawn mower with a B&G 12.5 I/C engine. Last season it went out on me at the end of the season. I knew of the bad starter and possibly a bad battery. So I put her down and used a push mower. This season, I replaced the starter (used) and battery (new). It won't even turn over. Before the replacement of the battery, I would turn the key and the negative cable would get red hot and literally melt if I kept the key turned too long. I removed he starter cable and the battery cable from the part just under the seat ( I think it is the solenoid). I left it off for a few days and can't remember which goes where. Nonetheless, no matter which way I put it back on, I am not getting any POWER any where. :( It seems as thogh I don't have any connection from the battery to the front of the mower. I don't know where to start because the electrical seems to be fairly simple and visible. :rolleyes: I know of two relay switches that are engaged or should be before the key is turned and they seem to be so. I am lost, so any help to get me started. I don't want to spend more money on getting it fixed than what it is worth. Please HELP!! :confused:

The process is the same for all riders,

You will need a volt meter and set it to DC volts
-Check the battery for 12.5 Volts
-Check the cables attached to the battery for the same voltage checking for good connections
-Attach the positive side of the volt meter to the + side of the battery and the negative side to the engine block, Still got 12 Volts? If not the ground from battery is bad.

-Now keep the ground on the negative side of battery
-follow positive cable to the solenoid and hook volt meter on the cable going TO the starter coming from the opposite side of the solenoid.
Turn key to "start" position you should have 12 + volts

YES-Check the same way on the starter motor where the cable FROM solenoid connects, If less or no voltage then cables or connections bad, If good voltage then starter is bad

NO- Take positive lead from volt meter to small wire going to solenoid and test for 12 Volts with key in the "start" position, If no voltage to small wire safety switch is telling it not to crank or ignition switch is bad (rare) If it does have voltage the solenoid needs replacing (common)

Hope it helps,
.Don

Thanks for the reply. I did try to follow the instructions as given.:D Here is what happened. The battery reads good (12.5 V). The block is grounded good. Now here comes the problem. Firstly, disconneced the wires from the solenoid and can't remember which side the HOT wire goes on. Nonetheless, I connected the way I thought. Looking at the solenoid from the front, I connected the battery wire to the left side and the starter to the other (right) side. You mentioned a small wire as a safety or something. I have a wire with an attached fuse. I think it should be connected to the battery side of the solenoid, that is where it is connected. Then I have a lone wire (small) connected to the solenoid that runs to a relay that engages the PTO. I connected the ground to the battery and the positive to the battery side of the solenoid, it read good (as expected). I then connected the positive to the starter side and turned the key to start, NOTHING. Now here is my problem
1. leaving everything connected as mentioned and turning the key to start, I hear a short whistle sound and then smell the burning of my negative battery wire. It literally turns RED HOT :mad: .
2. I connect a screwdriver from the starter screw to a nearby ground and the starter engages, but the engine doesn't turn over.

Does any of this sound familiar? Would replacing the solenoid help any of this. I think they are pretty cheap, I gues no harm done. Please advise.:confused:

You need a small fused wire to the hot lead at the battery or at the battery side of the solenoid. You need a small wire that has 12 volts when the key is in "start" position on the small post of the solenoid. It does not matter what side you hook battery lead or starter to as long as it is the large post. It sounds as if the small wire from the key switch may be grounded instead of going to solenoid.

A bad starter could cause the problem described IF everything is correct and still doing it.

Don

This may sound kind of werid. Here is what I am doing. I am looking at this mower and I can't see why the wires would be so difficult to follow, therfore I have taken the engine completely off the body. I have pressure sprayed the entire body to rid it of oil and gas buildup. I have drained the engine oil and gas and cleaned all of the parts. I am going to trace all wires and ensure everything is "hooked" back up as it should. Here is a final question, would the coil have any effect on the engine not turning over. I have replaced the spark plug with one that I know works. If there has been any adjustment on the coil from its normal position would this have any effect. BTW, there is a small wire coming from the coil and meshing with the other wires. Possibly leading up to the ingnition switch.
Thanks, please advise.

If this is an OHV engine, try adjusting the valve clearances. Over compression can stall the starter.

Mr. Batts, thanks for the reply. I don't think this is a OHV engine. To be honest I wouldn't know if it was unless it stated it. I don't know where the valves are on a lawn mower engine. Speaking of clearances, is there a clearance measurement for the coil to the flywheel. I took the coil off to give it a little cleaning from some dust buildup. I tried to install it back to its position by looking at the marks on the coil left by the screws. It looks as though there is some adjustment room, not much though. So should there be come min/max clearance?

I think you may have wires crossed on the battery, Here goes my best explanation.

One end of Red Positive wire Hooks to (+) post on battery, the other end hooks to side of solenoid.

One end of black ground wire hooks to (-) post on battery, the other end hooks to the engine hold down bolts to make a good ground.

Now another heavy wire like the positive will connect to the opposite side of solenoid and the other end of same wire will hook to starter.

A small wire coming from key switch will go to small post on solenoid and when Key is turned to "start" position The solenoid is energized and the two big wires are basically connected internaly.

The coil clearence is a little forgiving and the thikness of a business card will do the trick.

The wire coming of the coil is the "kill" wire, when the wire is grounded to the engine anywhere it shuts down the ignition by killing the spark. It is controlled by the key switch as well as other safety switches.

Hope this helps
Don

"2. I connect a screwdriver from the starter screw to a nearby ground and the starter engages, but the engine doesn't turn over"

Btw, if you do this again with things hooked up correctly you will weld the screw driver to the frame and cause a lot of sparks, bad idea.

You were turning the starter backwards by running current backwards

Don

I have done all that was suggested and I have been left with no choice but to send it to a "specialist" to see what is really going on. I will let you know what comes of it. I bet the engine is bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by str8dogg03

Hello, I am new to the site. hopefully this isn't a repeat post. I thought that I had posted before, but I can't find it. Nonetheless, here is the question. I have an older year Montgomery Ward ridding lawn mower with a B&G 12.5 I/C engine. Last season it went out on me at the end of the season. I knew of the bad starter and possibly a bad battery. So I put her down and used a push mower. This season, I replaced the starter (used) and battery (new). It won't even turn over. Before the replacement of the battery, I would turn the key and the negative cable would get red hot and literally melt if I kept the key turned too long. I removed he starter cable and the battery cable from the part just under the seat ( I think it is the solenoid). I left it off for a few days and can't remember which goes where. Nonetheless, no matter which way I put it back on, I am not getting any POWER any where. :( It seems as thogh I don't have any connection from the battery to the front of the mower. I don't know where to start because the electrical seems to be fairly simple and visible. :rolleyes: I know of two relay switches that are engaged or shoudl be before the key is turned and they seem to be so. I am lost, so any help to get me started. I don't want to spend more money on getting it fixed than what it is worth. Please HELP!!!:confused:

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I have a montgomery ward too and I had it for five years and min did the same thing mine wouldn't start because it was jamed by the starter and if its locked up in the engien ill have to now if it got any water in it

Well, what's the verdict?

My scotts 20 hp intek vtwin riding lawmower will not start. I was running it and it back fired and now it will not start. Could it be that the fly wheel key is broken and the mower is now out of time.
Thanks for any input on, how to check it out and replace the fly wheel key.

My mower was turning over to slow to start so I tried a used starter and that didn't work either. I ended up buying a new one, it started right up.