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-   -   New bladder tank not filling up but have great pressure everywhere. (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=773795)

  • Nov 3, 2013, 05:00 PM
    Needanewplumber
    New bladder tank not filling up but have great pressure everywhere.
    We had a new bladder tank installed 6 months ago, pressure tank is in the basement pump is a submersable. Our water pressure has been just great throughout the house. Just discovered by accident that the tank is empty, tings with echo and is easy to move slightly ( considering pipes attached), It rocks gently on blocks it's set up on. With well unplugged I opened spigot (at pipes attar he'd to tank), drained off about 2 gallon of water till no more water drained out. Checked pressure in empty tank it was 45# I let off pressure to 35 as that is what is wrote in marker on top of tank from the guy that installed it. After plugging pump back in I watched the gauge drop to 37# pump kicked on and ran up to 58# and shut back off. I have fantastic pressure throughout the house didn't even realize tank was not filling into I accidentally bumped it working next to it and it wobbled sounding them
    I paid a lot if money to have it replaced don't wan to have to call the guy back to come back out if he wasn't compident enough to check everything to be right before he finished he job.
  • Nov 3, 2013, 09:07 PM
    ma0641
    Post a picture of the connection. There should be only a T with the bladder tank.
  • Nov 3, 2013, 09:10 PM
    hkstroud
    You were correct in the adjustments you made. The pre-charge pressure should be 2# less than the cut on pressure of the pump switch.
    That way your pump come on just before you have used all the water in the tank. With 45# pre-charge you pump wasn't coming on until you used all the water in the tank and enough in the pipe to reduce the pressure on the switch to 37#. The excess pre-charge pressure reduced the amount of water that is stored in the tank between the pump cycles.
    How much water is in the tank between pump cycles depends on tank size and pressure settings. Research the tank brand and size to find "draw down". That is the amount of water that is stored between pump cycles. Tank is never completely full of water. Draw down is usually about 1/3 of tank size or less.
    Your draw down will be greater than it was before you made your adjustments. Was plumber incompetent or did he just make an error? Who knows?
    The purpose of a tank is to reduce the cycling of the pump. Without a tank your pump would come on each time you opened a faucet. With a 100 gallon tank your pump would come on when you used about 30 gallons of water. Starting and stopping is harder on a pump than the running.
    The pressure that you have been experiencing is result the pump. It is capable of directly producing the volume you need at the pressure you want. If it were capable of only producing 1 gallon per minute at 50# of pressure you would probably have noticed immediately.
  • Nov 4, 2013, 09:17 AM
    Needanewplumber
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ma0641 View Post
    Post a picture of the connection. There should be only a T with the bladder tank.
    Yes it does have T plumbing
    The pipe coming in from outside joins to the "T" piece that first has the pressure gauge (right side of T) then the T portion back into the tank then the left portion if the T has the pressure switch right above the spigot I drain the water from.. From the T then goes on out to the house pipes.
    I am trying to figure out how to copy paste a pic to you but I the reply box is not allowing it.
    After I took the "empty" tank pressure down from 45# to 35# the tank still wobbles with ease and still tinges with an echo no solid "filled" sound.

    Now since I brought that pressure down to 35, to unplug the pump and drain the water I have gone from 1 and a portion (about 1 1/2 gallon) bowls of water drain out to 5 gallons. After I plugged the pump back in it did take a little longer to shut off and I was curious if it was going to the tank or up through the house pipes so I shut the value on past the left portion if that T leading to the house pipes to stop any flow possibly going through there. And it did continue to run. So I am assuming it went into the tank. I just can't hear a change in the ting hi up or down low and I guess approx 5 gallon of water is in there and still easy to rock?
    Since I can't get the pic to copy / paste the tank is a Well-Rite 33.4 gal.
    Thank you kindly for reviewing my issues and giving any further comments or suggestions.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hkstroud View Post
    You were correct in the adjustments you made. The pre-charge pressure should be 2# less than the cut on pressure of the pump switch.
    That way your pump come on just before you have used all the water in the tank. With 45# pre-charge you pump wasn't coming on until you used all the water in the tank and enough in the pipe to reduce the pressure on the switch to 37#. The excess pre-charge pressure reduced the amount of water that is stored in the tank between the pump cycles.
    How much water is in the tank between pump cycles depends on tank size and pressure settings. Research the tank brand and size to find "draw down". That is the amount of water that is stored between pump cycles. Tank is never completely full of water. Draw down is usually about 1/3 of tank size or less.
    Your draw down will be greater than it was before you made your adjustments. Was plumber incompetent or did he just make an error? Who knows?
    The purpose of a tank is to reduce the cycling of the pump. Without a tank your pump would come on each time you opened a faucet. With a 100 gallon tank your pump would come on when you used about 30 gallons of water. Starting and stopping is harder on a pump than the running.
    The pressure that you have been experiencing is result the pump. It is capable of directly producing the volume you need at the pressure you want. If it were capable of only producing 1 gallon per minute at 50# of pressure you would probably have noticed immediately.

    Thank you for your info.
    The tank is a Well-Rite, 33.4 gal 125psi/35psi (I am guessing that means it needs at least 35psi and can handle up to 125 psi)
    This morning I did unplug the pump again, drain out the water at the spigot in the plumbing T there at the tank.
    Yesterday I got 1 1/2 bowls (aprox 1 & half gallon) today I filled 4 bowls full which filled a 5 gal bucket completely full. So now there is more water apparently, I still hear no change in the ting nocking on the tank from bottom to top sounds all the same. I can still wobble the tank on its block with ease. From what you explained I think the tank should have had at least another bucket full to drain out.
    About 1/2 way through the tank refilling when I plugged it back in, I decided to turn the shut off lever (on past the T where the plumbing goes on out to the house) to see if it was pumping the water into the tank or up through the house. And the pump did continue to run a bit longer before it shut off. I can only think it must be putting water in the tank. The pump never runs very long to pump up (I didn't actually count , but I can if it would help) I would guesstimate it pumps for about 10/15 seconds if that to take the gauge back up to 58# then the gauge kind of settles down to 55#.
    Thank you for any and all comments and suggestion I do appreciate the help.
  • Nov 4, 2013, 09:53 AM
    ma0641
    I believe the tank is filling. The bladder isolates the water so the sound may be misleading.
  • Nov 4, 2013, 10:02 AM
    speedball1
    1 Attachment(s)
    Bladder tanks don't fill up. This may help you to understand a bladder tank functions. Good luck, Tom
  • Nov 4, 2013, 02:40 PM
    hkstroud
    Well-Rite, 33.4 gal Tank Specifications


    Application(s) Pressure Pump Tank, RO Water Storage
    Total Volume 33.4 Gallons
    Tank Pre-charge 38 psi
    Inlet/Outlet Size 1" FNPT Stainless Steel
    Inlet/Outlet Location Bottom
    Air Valve Stem Location Top
    Drawdown at 20/40 Setting 13.3 Gallons
    Drawdown at 30/50 Setting 11.3 Gallons
    Drawdown at 40/60 Setting 9.7 Gallons
    Dimensions
    Height w/ Stand 42.75 "
    Diameter 16 "
    Weight 49 lbs
  • Nov 4, 2013, 03:13 PM
    ma0641
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
    Bladder tanks don't fill up. This may help you to understand a bladder tank functions. Good luck, Tom
    Bladder tanks don't fill up? What is the "stuff" in the bottom of the tank in picture C. Water fills the tank and compresses the bladder-No?
  • Nov 5, 2013, 12:36 PM
    speedball1
    Bladder tanks do not fill UP. As you can see that only fill part way. Regards, Tom
  • Nov 5, 2013, 03:16 PM
    ma0641
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
    Bladder tanks do not fill UP. As you can see that only fill part way. Regards, Tom
    I'm an optimist and see it as 1/2 full. Semantics my good friend!

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