Daughter and son in law relapsed after rehab and are alcoholic. Daughter home schooled kids last year and the Kindergartener and 3rd grader did NOT pass although they are both intelligent girls. Daughter said it was the school's (teacher's fault and that the girls hadn't turned everything in). My daughter has no business home schooling as she is drinking heavily every day and the children say "Mommie is napping" or "Mommie is taking another bath"! So far this school year, the one that flunked K is being home schooled and according to my daughter she was able to get her into 1st grade, however the one who flunked 3rd grade is not going to school! My daughter says her home schooling starts in September but that is odd that one starts now and not the other since it is the same system. My daughter and SIL often lie to me so I can't really believe much they say. The son in law also drinking but says he can handle it now! He buys an 18 or 20 pack of beer and when it is gone in one sitting he is pleased that he does not go out to buy some more. To him that is testament that he is "handling it"!

Their home was completely filthy -similar to hoarder type houses on tv). The carpets are thoroughly filthy from dog poop messes and cat or dog urine messes! The carpet in the family room was so bad that my SIL just tore it up and they've been living with the pavement of the house in there! I did threaten CPS 2 weeks ago unless they'd get their kids in a clean house and start going to AA. I really did mean it and yet I know CPS is often opening a can of worms. My SIL got so angry he did 2 things: 1) he cleaned up the house. This is a good thing. But 2) he no longer wants me to be allowed to see my grandchildren. This hurts terribly.

My daughter is a mean drunk and can act really crazy when drinking. She gets things confused and makes things up in her head when she is drunk. She is drunk every day. She is mean and crazy acting with her kids. The children don't want to be around her but they do like being around their father. My daughter has told me tonight that she no longer wants me in her life and actually said "you are dead to me"! This came about because of threatening CPS 2 weeks ago and also because her husband told her that I laughed when he told
Me she didn't want to have anything to do with me; and because he told her I'd said she needed to be in an "insane asylum"! Their words! I did say she needs help, counseling and acts crazy. I stand by that!

I have been helping them pay their bills and I had recently said I would buy them all new carpeting so that it would be clean in their house. Now with all this hurtful things said I don't really want to purchase this carpet ($3500!) but I also don't want to go back on my word. I also do want kids in a clean house. The cleaning up they've done so far is a good job but in the past they've done similarly cleaning only to have it completely filthy again in a few weeks with dirty dishes, rotten food and cat and dog poop, clothes everywhere etc, etc.. I still think I will go ahead an foot bill for carpet. But I am so tired of all this. They've been poisoning my older grandchild against me and you can see the turmoil when this child sees me. This child knows how much I love them and how I treat them but they've also bern told crazy things about me. The kids sometimes tell me that mom or dad said I was mean and didn't want them around me or that I want to cause problems.
I love my daughter, SIL and love, adore and would lay down my life for my grand kids! It breaks my heart to see how they are living and how dysfunctional their lives are.

Should I call CPS? What should I do? Am I enabling if I buy the carpet? And what do I do when they won't let me see my little ones?

Buying a carpet most likely will only end up in the same condition in less than a few months. They'd probably do better with a bare floor. As far as CPS most often they do more harm than good. Being homeschooled she should be required to show progress every so often. I think a handful of people think homeschooling will put them under the radar when that isn't the case.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

Buying a carpet most likely will only end up in the same condition in less than a few months. They'd probably do better with a bare floor. As far as CPS most often they do more harm than good. Being homeschooled she should be required to show progress every so often. I think a handful of people think homeschooling will put them under the radar when that isn't the case.

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Thank you for replying. To have the house tiled (bare floor) would be the best because of the animals but is cost prohibitive. It is more than double for tile. SIL talked me into the carpet saying he'd keep animals outside. (Daughter also will hoard animals but husband is now getting rid of them and also is keeping dogs outside for the time being).
When they went into rehab I paid for that. I also caught them up on their house payments, car payments etc. it cost me $20,000 and nearly all my savings to help them. I told them I gifted them the rehab and was glad to do that but they were to repay me for all the other things. The house and car and other bills came to $13,000! I am retired and this was a lot of $ for me! Our agreement was that they'd give me their paycheck and I pay their bills and pay myself back $200 - $300 a month. I have done a remarkable job helping them budget their bills, pay off even more creditors and pay off the DUI's, court costs, and still have $ for fun things too. SIL appreciates that. Without them spending $ for alcohol and mj they were able to make ends meet! He has paid me back nearly $6000 with this system (still owes about $4700) but now he wants to stop the agreement and keep his paycheck and not have me pay their bills. I am certain they'd be back in the toilet real soon because they are now drinking heavily again. The money I budgeted for their groceries and given them has apparently been going partly towards their booze. I am not sure how they are funding all their booze right now but I am sure that is why he wants to stop our agreement.

I would personally intervene with CPS.

With two active addictions going on, and the health issues (dog/cat urine/poop), and the schooling issues, and lack of parenting to these two very young children, it is necessary to get help. You cannot help them by threatening CPS, you have to actually speak to them.

Their response to not making changes to ensure the health and safety of their children, is to ban you from their lives as a gesture of the ultimate control- denying you access to the children. That says to me that they do not want to make changes, and are intending to do as they like, and as they have been. Which puts these children at risk in my opinion.

That they have both failed at rehab is concern enough, because their addictions are active. Two drunk parents are not able to provide the necessities of life to these children.

It is sad to say that things have gone this far for all of you. But you did not create the situation, and I suspect that if they didn't need you for your cheque book, you wouldn't likely hear from them at all.

Go and talk to a CPS worker, and explain what you have said here- bring a copy of your post. Talk to them about if the children are taken from their home, what happens to them- are you willing to have temporary custody?

Options are limited for you, other than to have a third party intervene. You cannot force anything, or any conditions upon them, but it would be wise for you not to invest any further financially or otherwise, until the situation for the children is addressed.

From what you have said, I see no other option.

You are enabling them. This has to stop. They need to learn to budget their bills, who is going to do it when, heaven forbid, you are gone?

They are adults with children. It is time that the accept that responsibility and stop expecting you to clean up their messes for you.

Is it going to be easy for you? No, of course not. Most likely the hardest thing you have ever done in your life. But it HAS to be done otherwise you will keep this vicious cycle going. Let them have their paychecks, let them pay their bills and their mortgage. When it all falls in around them and they finally hit rock bottom, they will come to their senses.

CPS won't do much more than you are doing other than possibly making the children go to an accredited school rather than homeschooling, and it will hurt your relationship even more. People live in pig styes and children fail school. Those are some hard facts of life.

However, the living conditions are, in fact, dangerous if those two young children are at home while mother is drunk and passed out. When that happens again, if you are told that mom is sleeping, you can call the police and voice your concerns about the children that young being left unattended. Then it is out of your hands when the police arrive to see what exactly is going on.

Basically, you have to stop enabling this behavior. Stop bailing them out of everything or this will never stop.

Sounds like you do need to quit doing for them. You call CPS and take your chances or you simply quit funding them and let them sink their own ship. Doesn't seem like they intend to pay you back either way.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

Sounds like you do need to quit doing for them. You call CPS and take your chances or you simply quit funding them and let them sink their own ship. Doesn't seem like they intend to pay you back either way.

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If I turn it back to them I can guarantee it will sink their ship. It also aw oils mean I wouldn't get paid back. He has paid me back $6000 and owes $4700 more. He has done well up to this point but because he is using he doesn't want to continue our agrreement. Believe me when I say that since I found out two weeks ago that they are drinking again that I have been so tempted to throw it all back in their faces! But I know where it would go. They would be back in the same mess with losing house, cars, etc.. I also would not be paid back at all then. At least this way I may get paid back some more. I figure if I
Pay for the new carpet so kids can live in clean environment, I will have kept my end (because I did promise I'd do it) and it is for the best for
The kids. I will be out the $ for the carpet and I can watch the train wreck happen without them being able to blame me for not following through on my end. The train wreck will come
About and I am finished with helping them.

Again, you are enabling. I don't think you understand that. You have to face the fact that you may never get that money back. It seems like that is the most important thing to you.

Yes, they may lose their house, their cars, their jobs and their children. But this is the life of the addict who does not accept responsibility. That is what is called "hitting rock bottom" for the addict and that is the only way for them to admit addiction and recover. Until that happens this cycle will continue.

When you placed them in rehab, did you get any counseling for yourself? That is an integral part of the family of addicts. Without you getting counseling, you don't have the proper skills to deal with the outcomes of relapse.

Your continuing to enable them is not going to work any better than your other 2 options. AND its only going to set you back more. You buy them new rugs at say $1,000.+ in order to get back $4,700. But it won't stop there. With their drinking they will nickel and dime you to death.

The most important thing to me IS my grandchildren and their welfare. Ironically, I am a retired counselor and had a very wonderful career. I have seen how CPS does not always help so it is not a clear - white and black option for me. My husband does not want to take on the grandkids. I would, but am not certain it is best for them; nor am I sure I am up to it and dealing with the system and all involved. I've also seen and heard many times
How the kids wanted to stay in the
Messed up situation! I think my grandchildren would be very torn up not living with dad. But I'd do it and may do it. It is something incredibly difficult to know how to handle.
Their children were taken away in 2009 for 3 months. The other grandma, a drinker, was awarded custody! I am glad she was able to have them but let it suffice to say that once again CPS did a poor job of monitoring and decision making. I once took
Kids to her home after a visit here with me and she was passed out! When I reported that I was told they'd look into it. End of story. When I told CPS that I knew my daughter and son in law were getting their "card signed" and not staying for meetings and other concerns they did nothing. My daughter and don in law got children back and were on probation for about a year. As soon as they were off they got right back on their drug if choice (booze and mj). It was then in Oct of 2011 that with their world crumbling around them that they came to me about rehab and I was thrilled to help them. They've been doing so well -right up until a few weeks ago. The carpet issue was already planned before I found out about their relapse. Don't think for a moment that mt concerns are about the money for carpet. My heart is being ripped apart here. I am old and I am tired. I can still pull my mojo together if I have to and I just might... But I am exhausted at this point from years... Decades of this problem. Really thought we were going to succeed this time.

I know you are being ripped apart. I am a grandmother as well as a nurse who has to report to CPS when there are issues.

You have to STOP enabling them. You will never succeed if you continue to pay their bills, replace the carpet, and expect a 180 degree turnaround. It's just not going to happen.

You are a retired counselor, correct? If so, you know the cycle of abuse, and you know that there has to be a rock bottom. However, your heart is with the grandchildren, and I understand that. I have 3 of my own.

However, there comes a time that we, as parents, not nurses or counselors, have to step back and force our children to make their own choices in life and to deal with the consequences of their actions.

You thought you were going to succeed this time, and the last time, and the time before, ad nauseum. It didn't happen, did it? It's time, no matter how hard it is, and no matter how much it hurts, to make them responsible for their actions.

Maybe some advice from as Alanon group could guide you to a decision as how to stop enabling and make better choices for yourself and your family. You can find a local chapter in your area before you throw more money down a dark hole for counseling, carpets, or more rehab.

That's my suggestion, that you get free advice from experts who have gone down your path already, and J_9 is dead on the money. You have gotten good advice already, you just have to take it. And making a threat you don't intend to keep is a foolish one indeed.

Get to an Alanon meeting near you. Most counselors are great with others, but make lousy clients. That's your problem to deal with first.

I want to thank you for all the replies. I'm planning on attending an alanon meeting tonight.
The threat was not an empty one and that is what is fueling this chapter of them being made towards me. They want me to promise I won't call just as the other grandma (a preschool teacher) has promised not to call! I won't promise I won't. I can't make that promise. They wanted to take the CPS off the table as something I could do and although I understand all those concerns I cannot promise them that I won't call. That infuriates them. 2 weeks ago is when I found my daughter drunk and crazy. It is also when I found out that they both have been drinking. It was a terrible night. That night if I had called most certainly the children would have been taken because of how drunk she was and because of the hoarder type filth in house.

He begged me give them 2 weeks and my husband also asked me to promise I wouldn't call in that length of time. I made my first mistake by giving in that night by saying I wouldn't call for 2 weeks but I also said the kids couldn't live in that filth and they had to start back to AA and get a handle on the drinking after nearly 2 years of sobriety. I naively thought they would want to stop and that they'd see what the likely outcome was if they didn't. I have them the 2 weeks which was last night. That is why they gave me a tour of the house and it was so much cleaner, a huge improvement (although it won't be long before it is a disaster, as we have cleaned before) but still they are drinking and they haven't gone to meeting nor are they likely to. That part of what I agreed to they haven't done.

So I am back at square one with so many thoughts about decisions and the right/best course to take. I don't want to be punitive and dump all the bills in their lap but at the same time I do see the bills need to be transitioned back to where they are the ones organizing and paying them. The fact I am getting his paycheck and paying all their bills in an organized manner has begun to improve their credit and has shown them they can live on what he makes and shown them that during the last nearly 2 years they were able to pay me back half of what they owed me. If they kept up this system they would be able to save that money in the future for themselves. But of course they won't be saving any money if they incur more/new DUI and court fees and if they play first before paying bills. So I don't want to be punitive, as I've said and just dump it back in their ungrateful drunk laps without at least attempting to show him how and what the system is (he has a little more sense and functions and goes to work). I do think that paying for a carpet is a lost cause and depletes further my own resources; however, I have already promised my grandchildren that I would get it so I will do that. At which point, the gravy train ends.

Both My husband and I have been at their beck and call - putting in yard and sprinklers, driving up to fix pipes bursting. Cleaning and helping with birthday expenses as well as sporting type activities we have paid for so the kids could attend. The SIL says I've been too involved in their lives so I think it is time for them to have a wakeup call. As I looked at their clean home last night I saw that every single thing in their house I had bought them! The family and living room and dining their bed and all the children's beds. I was staring at pictures on their walls that had hung on my own walls. There was my beautiful childhood piano and the bookcases I had as a newlywed! Every single thing! When we left there was the 2003 car I sold them and then gave them the pink slip to because I didn't want his DUI's in a car registered to me! The same car he later exchanged the pink slip for a money/shark loan - which was one of the loans I paid back after their rehab (Oct 2011). So their ungrateful mess and surliness are typical of the alcoholic that blames the only person that has been there for them Been there in all facets of the word! His mother is also good at being there for him but has not been able to give to them to the extent I have. She also enables in other ways that I do not. She drinks with them and it is a culture of alcoholism on his side of family. They are all uncomfortable around my husband and I for that reason.

When my daughter is not drinking she is a lovely girl and sweet and she appreciates all that her father and I have done. When she is drunk - every time she is drunk - I am the villain. Her husband also contributes to that notion by telling her his version of things said that only hurt or belittle her. Her husband talks to her as if she was a child or worse - like ordering a dog. Her behavior is pathetic and to see a once bright, beautiful girl living a non-life is heartbreaking to a me. That is actually worse to see than her words to me last night that she never wants to see me again. I know those words are empty. It is her behavior that pains me.
She was not raised with drinking but she has had drinking problems since she was in her teens. She remembers a different childhood than what are actually had! She tells people crazy stories about how she was raised! She was once diagnosed bi-polar when she was about 20 years old but the medications along with her drinking made her even more difficult. It is now 15 years and 3 children later. She is scathingly hateful with when she is drinking - which is one of the first clues - that her always getting very skinny because she doesn't want to eat and ruin her buzz. It is such a waste of lives and it reeks of hate, evil, disgust and all things negative.
But I do want to thank those of you who have responses. Your comments are helpful and they also help just to be able to pour out my heart. As I said I am going to go to an alanon meeting tonight

The issue is, promises made by them mean nothing,
The children have to be protected

How did the Alanon meeting go?

I have to admit that I did not read your entire last post as it was very hard to read in that it was not broken down into paragraphs and punctuation was lacking.

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Originally Posted by J_9

How did the Alanon meeting go?

I have to admit that I did not read your entire last post as it was very hard to read in that it was not broken down into paragraphs and punctuation was lacking.

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The alanon mtg was not really helpful as we read a passage out of a book and then we wrote our feelings about it. I guess there are different kinds of meetings. I will try another one, possibly today. I am feeling exhausted this morning feeling like there is little I can do.

I can actually applaud you giving them structure and discipline, but my problem with calling CPS is the kid suffer because where do they go? To the other grandma? To the county system? If you and your husband are unwilling to take the at least temporarily, for support, and stability you do more harm than good in my opinion, and I suspect your daughter needs more help than just stopping drinking.

I also believe that a family in crisis needs more outside intervention than just you because you are hardly objective enough to give proper perspective. Not blaming you, just pointing out That you have too much take in the outcome, and a obvious emotional attachment. You seem to dominate the situation rather than lead them to better behavior. You give them few choices to make better decision because on their own which is the goal, rather than force them into doing as they are told.

I can get with the discipline I truly can, but the safety net is a false and taxing one on you and your budget, and puts pressure on them to please you and not what best for them. Your kids need sponsors, not enablers, of which you are clearly one, which indicate you backing off to a safer distance which allows for consequences to happen for the sham of their recovery.

Hold off on that carpet as that only hides their inability to be motivated to do for themselves because it's not going to help your grand kids, who from my experience need more help than all the adults do. It should be that whatever you do doesn't go on the book as a loan to be repaid, but an action from the heart, as I strongly point out you have replaced their issues, and best solutions with your idea of what they should be doing, in effect doing what they should be doing for themselves as you extend their credit that they cannot get on their own, so have no need to wake the hell up.

This should never be about what they owe you, or what you have done for them and has become an ever growing resentment point that retards recovery significantly. You really do need to back off and get more objective experts involved.

For sure recognize your way is not yielding the desired results, and this isn't a problem just you can solve by yourself, no matter how hard you try, or how much money you throw at it, and get help and better direction from those that know.

Jails, institutions and death are the fate of alcoholics and rehabs (detox) are only the beginning of a longer journey that you must want above all else want to take. They aren't there yet, so back off and get out of the way.

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Originally Posted by Hopeful54

The alanon mtg was not really helpful as we read a passage out of a book and then we wrote our feelings about it. I guess there are different kinds of meetings. I will try another one, possibly today. I am feeling exhausted this morning feeling like there is little I can do.

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Boy if that's the way you feel, then imagine how an actual alcoholic sees his first meetings. Or first try at sobriety.

First, get the kids better care than they have now even if it not your ideal. "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" or something similar is the saying. The kids are in danger now, if from nothing else, just the atmosphere of bad judgments by the parents.
The alcoholics will not change on their own and if they do finally change, it will always be a threat for relapse. They have to have a strong desire to stop and cutting back to 20 or so beers per day ain't quite a step in the right direction. Do they drive - I was going to say when drinking- but if they drive at all it is most likely at least partially impaired, and if they drive with the children, a significant hazard exists already.