Yesterday when my son arrived home from school he was terribly upset. He had explained to me that he had had a substitute teacher that day. As the end of the day came he mentioned the substitute teacher had grabbed him by the back collar of his shirt and pulled him very hard, which stretched his shirt and she roughly push him back down to his chair. I had asked my son why she would do such a thing, had anything happened. His chair, from what I understand is close to the classroom door. He explained to me that he was just looking out into the hallway to see if there were any students that rode his bus lined up because apparently the bells were not working and he wanted to be sure he didn't miss the bus. At that moment is when the substitute teacher grabbed his shirt. This morning I went into the school to speak to the principal. We filled her in on the story. Her first response was that she has known the alleged substitute teacher for ten years. I myself did not see that as an accurate response to how that has anything to do with the matter at hand. As my son was explaining the event to her she assumed he was lying and basically implied that my son had stretched the shirt himself. I can assure anyone that my son would not lie regarding something like this. I've left a message for the Board of Education to return my call, which sadly they rarely do. I do also have a picture of my sons shirt. This makes me upset as a parent, that a stranger is allowed to do what she did and then the school principal to defend her the way she did. Any ideas on how I could resolve this?
Thanks

You're going to get mad at me as there is no easy way to do this and you're already hot about it...

You say she grabbed his shirt and roughly pushed him back into his chair. He says he was only looking out into the hallway. Well, those two items don't match up.

I'm not saying he's lying but I am saying that you may not have an entirely true story here. How old is he? Perhaps someone else did this to him and he is ashamed to admit it. Perhaps he did something to the shirt and is scared he will be in trouble. Things like this do happen.

Maybe the teacher really did do this but if so, how has she been in the system for 10 years without any previous complaints? Was this an isolated incident? I would think something like this would have popped up within 10 years.

Obviously I believe that if she did do such a thing, she should be severely punished for it but I also think that before you go trying to get her fired that you may want to investigate this just a little bit more.

Are there other things your son (or other students) complained about regarding this sub, or was he upset that he even had one? (Kids hate changes in the school day.)

What grade is your son in?

I'm with odinn -- I think there is more to this story. Teachers nowadays are very, very careful about putting their hands on students.

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Originally Posted by odinn7

You're going to get mad at me as there is no easy way to do this and you're already hot about it....

You say she grabbed his shirt and roughly pushed him back into his chair. He says he was only looking out into the hallway. Well, those two items don't match up.

I'm not saying he's lying but I am saying that you may not have an entirely true story here. How old is he? Perhaps someone else did this to him and he is ashamed to admit it. Perhaps he did something to the shirt and is scared he will be in trouble. Things like this do happen.

Maybe the teacher really did do this but if so, how has she been in the system for 10 years without any previous complaints? Was this an isolated incident? I would think something like this would have popped up within 10 years.

Obviously I believe that if she did do such a thing, she should be severely punished for it but I also think that before you go trying to get her fired that you may want to investigate this just a little bit more.

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Hi and thanks for the response. As far as my son being worried that he may get in trouble about his shirt, no he wouldn't worry about that. Also as far as the sub being in for 10 years I have no clue if there has been other complaints on her. The principal at this school has never tried to resolve any issues I have went to her with. My daughter has been bullied, kicked, punched spit on etc. this principal doesn't do a thing other them sending them to the counselor which does absolutely nothing. I mentioned that to let you in on how the "principal" handles things. My son is one of the most loving kids I have ever known and everyone we know will say the same thing. I have never caught him in a lie, he rarely has to be punished because he is seriously that good of a kid. No other complaints on him at school what so ever. This is the first time he had this substitute and I've never had him come home and tell me what he did yesterday. I don't know if maybe she told him to sit down but instead of handling like an adult should she grabs him?

You can assure everyone that your son would not lie.
The principal can assure you that the teacher would never manhandle a student.

The public isn't on your side, because kids lie all the time (and they start lying when they hadn't before). Did you get confirmation that the bells weren't working? That would have been my first question had I taken the trouble to go to the school in person.

There's often a bit of truth to every side of a story. If he was by the door, he might have left his seat and started to bolt before class was over, prompting a mass exodus of students, and the teacher did indeed grab his shirt. Shove him in his seat? Too much embellishment by your son, I think.

In short, I would have tried to get facts first. Starting with a methodical questioning of your son before going to the principal. And leave the Board out of it. It's not their province.

Parenting is a fine line between protecting your children and marching into school every year with various complaints. That in itself can lead to the very bullying your daughter has been subject to. Obviously if it starts you have to step in, but from the way you write, and from your mention of the way the Board reacts, it sounds like you have an approach that needs a bit of give and take.

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Originally Posted by joypulv

You can assure everyone that your son would not lie.
The principal can assure you that the teacher would never manhandle a student.

The public isn't on your side, because kids lie all the time (and they start lying when they hadn't before). Did you get confirmation that the bells weren't working? That would have been my first question had I taken the trouble to go to the school in person.

There's often a bit of truth to every side of a story. If he was by the door, he might have left his seat and started to bolt before class was over, prompting a mass exodus of students, and the teacher did indeed grab his shirt. Shove him in his seat? Too much embellishment by your son, I think.

In short, I would have tried to get facts first. Starting with a methodical questioning of your son before going to the principal. And leave the Board out of it. It's not their province.

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Yes the principal herself confirmed the bells were not working. A couple of others students have also stated this fact to be true. I've done a little research on this sub and yes she has many other complaints as well.

OK, I'll subscribe to your view of the sub. All I can suggest is that you suggest to your son that he stay as quiet and obedient as possible around her, much as you and I had to do when we were in school. Let it drop.

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Originally Posted by joypulv

OK, I'll subscribe to your view of the sub. All I can suggest is that you suggest to your son that he stay as quiet and obedient as possible around her, much as you and I had to do when we were in school. Let it drop.

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I appreciate your responses but I'm a parent and someone else putting their hands on my children will not be dropped.

I strongly suggest you find an area counselor who works with students and their school situations. You and your son meet with that counselor to determine what had happened (at least from your side of it). Then, with the counselor as your advocate, ask the school to schedule a staffing for you, your counselor, their counselor, the principal, the sub, and your son's regular teacher.

The same thing can be done regarding the bullying your daughter has endured.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I strongly suggest you find an area counselor who works with students and their school situations. You and your son meet with that counselor to determine what had happened (at least from your side of it). Then, with the counselor as your advocate, ask the school to schedule a staffing for you, your counselor, their counselor, the principal, the sub, and your son's regular teacher.

The same thing can be done regarding the bullying your daughter has endured.

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I appreciate everyone helping with this. Hopefully getting a meeting with everyone will help resolve this matter.

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Originally Posted by BrandyR1984

I appreciate everyone helping with this. Hopefully getting a meeting with everyone will help resolve this matter.

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Until you do that, it will be you against the sub or the principal or whoever, and you may get a reputation as a disruptive parent who would rather complain and make trouble than find a reasonable resolution. A staffing will open everyone's eyes.

So you have talked to everyone but the sub teacher, and therein is where half the truth is. No way do you send your bullied daughter to this counseling without personal interactions with the counselor.

Get all the facts before any complaints and never fight your battles in front of them.

OK, my initial reaction here was that at best this is a case of he said/she said. You had no corroborating evidence and no proof of anything (other then a stretched shirt). But reading on, I see you have confirmed the issue of the bells not working and determined there are other complaints against the teacher.

So the next question is what you want to do about it. Unfortunately, School officials and Board of Ed people are insular. They protect their own like most groups. Plus if this sub has a history of complaints that have not been acted on, it opens a liability issue for continuing to use her. So you are going to have an uphill battle.

My next stop would be your PTA, see if you can enlist their aid in going up against the principal and the Board of Ed.

This will all depend on how much effort you want to expend on this. You may go as far as you can with no resolution.

Choose your battles carefully. Is there any chance that this matter will be definitively resolved? To accomplish that, nothing short of an admission (or video) by the substitute teacher would be acceptable.
"This makes me upset as a parent, that a stranger is allowed to do what she did..." You imply that it would have been OK if his regular teacher had done it-?
I think that the teacher probably grabbed his shirt to deter him from leaving his desk too soon and maybe that was wrong by today's standards, but you most likely wouldn't complain if she had done it to stop him from getting into a dangerous situation.
Your side of the story has already been put out there (or will have been by the time you complete what you intend to do).
Unless you can prove it and I don't know how you could do it short of a video or admission from the substitute, I think you need to drop it and move on. But document your complaint to the school board (cc the principal) via certified letter, not phone calls. If something happens in the future, there will be a record. And if you include the USPS cert. number on the letter and keep a copy, you will be able to tie it all together later to prove that you registered the complaint.

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Originally Posted by smearcase

Choose your battles carefully. Is there any chance that this matter will be definitively resolved? To accomplish that, nothing short of an admission (or video) by the substitute teacher would be acceptable.
"This makes me upset as a parent, that a stranger is allowed to do what she did..." You imply that it would have been ok if his regular teacher had done it-?
I think that the teacher probably grabbed his shirt to deter him from leaving his desk too soon and maybe that was wrong by today's standards, but you most likely wouldn't complain if she had done it to stop him from getting into a dangerous situation.
Your side of the story has already been put out there (or will have been by the time you complete what you intend to do).
Unless you can prove it and I don't know how you could do it short of a video or admission from the substitute, I think you need to drop it and move on. But document your complaint to the school board (cc the principal) via certified letter, not phone calls. If something happens in the future, there will be a record.

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NO I'm not implying it would have been OK if it would have been his actual teacher. My point is NO ONE lays a hand on my kids period!