I have reached the point after 4 years in a relationship where I have started to play poorer than I am. I really feel confused and awful about it. I have savings, enough to get a loan in a bank for buying a house. My boyfriend has no savings, no job and a big debt. I love the man with all my heart, but I also love myself and I don't think it is right that I pay for everything. I should have been honest with him and told him about my savings and just said I won't spend them. We are in a dilemma where everything might be finished because he proposed to me, but has no money for even giving a ring, nor for any wedding. I almost wanted to cry when he proposed because I did not understand why he did it at this moment, it did not feel real and pure. I honestly think he did it to make me more committed without offering me anything.

He does not want me to have a smart phone, he thinks " we need to save all the money we can and that I can use the computer instead". I felt bad when he said so, because I do have a lot more money than he thinks.Yesterday I told him I had decided to buy the phone, and he freaked out. It turns out that he doesn't wan't me to have a smart phone, because he likes to control me. I got so angry. I have paid for all our vacations, all the dinners lately. I have hoped for better timed for 4 years and I feel like my life doesn't progress. I have so many things I dream about doing that I can do, because I have the money, but that I can't because I pretend to be poor, if not I will have to pay for the wedding, pay for him, then he thinks we have no excuse and that I should get him a car etc. etc.

He doesn't want me to travel without him, but he doesn't have money for going anywhere. Nobody hires him. And he is picky when it comes to jobs. When he had a season job for a few months, which I got him, he spent all the money he made on paying down on the debt. He invited me out 1 time! At least we had the freedom to do a bit more things, but still he was so careful with the money since he had to pay off some debt. He also pays child support. I dream about the times I could pack my suit case and go on adventures. I bought myself nice things without hiding the plastic bags and receipts.

Now I feel totally trapped. I want a wedding, I want a nice future. I want vacations. I just don't know if I am willing to spend all the money my parents and me have saved up for me to be spent on 2. What do I do about this?

I have to say I do this as well to test him. In the beginning I spent so much time, effort and money on the relationship. I felt like I was pulling everything, and my friends told me they had noticed the same. They even said: " make him worship you and respect you" He is very good at saying to me " we need to save, we can have everything, we can't split because we have struggled so much to make it"-. When he says that I know he means that I have to save, that we can have everything if I buy a house and I continue working my off, and that I have struggled a lot because of his mistakes. Because of all this I have started to see how much he is capable to do if I play broke and in a bad situation. He wants us to go for vacations and I say no. He wants to move in with me, but I say I can't support him right now. He wanted the wedding but I never mention anything about any wedding. Am I doing the wrong or right by playing?

There is no right or wrong here - you aren't married, and have no obligation to reveal your financial situation.
On the one hand, I have to admire him for using his earnings to pay down his debt, and I do feel for him having to pay child support.
On the other hand, I admire you for being careful about savings and not heaping all your money on him, or a wedding.
You are at a crossroads. You 'love him with all your heart' but are on the borderline between keeping secrets and lying. You also don't want to live together yet, and it's been 4 years, which is enough time to know someone. You also find him controlling. HMM! Is this 'love with all your heart' or are you hanging onto a memory of the first few months?
If you are uncomfortable about revealing your finances AND about living together, I would say that you don't love him with all your heart, and need to accept that there are some basic differences between you that mean a lot to you, and most likely aren't going to resolve.
So if I say 'time to break up,' what's your immediate reaction?

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Originally Posted by joypulv

There is no right or wrong here - you aren't married, and have no obligation to reveal your financial situation.
On the one hand, I have to admire him for using his earnings to pay down his debt, and I do feel for him having to pay child support.
On the other hand, I admire you for being careful about savings and not heaping all your money on him, or a wedding.
You are at a crossroads. You 'love him with all your heart' but are on the borderline between keeping secrets and lying. You also don't want to live together yet, and it's been 4 years. It seems to me that 4 years is enough time to know someone. If you are uncomfortable about revealing your finances AND about living together, I would say that you don't love him with all your heart, and need to accept that there are some basic differences between you that mean a lot to you, and most likely aren't going to resolve.
So if I say 'time to break up,' what's your immediate reaction?

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First of all thank you for taking time to answer.
I do love him. I did not tell all the details here because I don't want to be identified. The reason we are not living together has been long distance relationship. He has been studying somewhere else. I also admire him for paying off some debt. I think we are on such different levels when it comes to out economic situation, and it is a big challenge since I grew up with the mentality of respecting money a lot. I don't doubt that I love him, but I doubt that he loves me. I am scared he is not honest with me. I wonder how things would have been if he did have a lot of money. I also wonder how it would be if I ended up paying for everything. I know his ex struggled with the same. I have always been the one going to visit him, and I have paid his ticket to come to visit me. He has promissed several times to gather money and come to see me, and every time he let me down. In the end he always asks if I can come instead. I have spent like 10 000 USD on tickets- Still he thinks I haven't done enough. I reached the poing now where I play broke, simply to see if he can pull the relationship a bit, or what he is willing to do or capable to do.

When I asked what your immediate reaction was to the suggestion that you break up, I didn't need more defense of your love for him, nor more complaints about him. Do you see what you are doing? I hope I don't sound mean, I just want you to stop waffling and to make a decision. If you can't make one, then I would suggest therapy, where you can talk about this for as many sessions as it takes.
I think you need to examine your insistence that you love him. I'm just not finding one inkling of it in what you write. If the money difference is important to you, and if you mistrust his love for you, and if you are worried that his 'love' is more about splitting expenses than anything else, then that's not love. Love between two adults has to be reciprocal, or it's just infatuation or obsession or a craving for love that isn't met.

You want him to be something that he isn't, and he isn't going to change. You are in love with someone who isn't there.

He has had already one failed relationship that he has to pay child support on. If he's not working, and you are paying for everything, are you also paying his child support?

There is something in my opinion, wrong, and out of balance, with a relationship where one person pays it all, and the other pays little to nothing. I don't hear you saying he's trying to improve himself (what is it about him that he can't keep a job), nor do I hear any remorse or embarrassment from him that he has to rely on you to support him.

You are 100% correct in keeping your finances to yourself. I can see where you work hard to plan a decent future, and have some resentment for him controlling the money he does know about. It's not okay for you to have a new phone, but, he needs a computer and a car.

Before you accept marriage to this man, and risk losing everything, including your dignity, I would end this. He is not going anywhere, and he is holding you back.

Taking him on financially, setting your dreams aside, and becoming a step-mom and dealing with all of that (I wonder what the mother of his children has to say about him- is he not working to avoid paying regular child support, for starters), is walking into a nightmare in my opinion, and if it isn't clear to you what the future holds with him, it should be by now.

Time to put this relationship to bed. Neither of you are on the same page when it comes to finances. It appears you work hard, respect your money, and want a bright future. He, on the other hand, works little, has no money, and already has a failed relationship in which he is required to support a minor child.

This is a give/take relationship. You are giving and he is taking. You have every right to do with your money as you so please. Him getting upset over the "smart phone" is absolutely ridiculous. It is your money to do with as you please and he is in no position to tell you otherwise.

Many marriages fail over financial reasons. Don't let this happen to you.

It's time to cut your losses and let him fend for himself. You have dreams and aspirations. This won't happen if you stay with this man-child.

Thanks for answering. Well, the funny thing, if I dare to call it funny is that after I wrote here today something happened. Last time we got back together he promissed to cut back on the alcohol, and actually quit it totally. He drinks and drinks a lot when he drinks, so he does very stupid things like drive fast etc. I know the distance is hard, and I told him last time we got back together that it if it was too much for him to do for the relationship to work, that I preffered that he would say he would choose the life style of drinking a lot and to leave me. He said he truly promissed to stop. He said he would no anything to be with me, and would really treat me like a princess. Today he failed on me. He did not answer the phone until 11 in the morning and acted all strange. He said he has been out yesterdat until 6 am and got wasted. I said he had failed on me and we haven't talked. I also said I warned him and said it was much to ask for, but that his drunkness is too much for me. He could not stop for more than a 1,5 month. Thank God he told the truth so I can choose now.

I am happy that you are beginning to feel a little more confident in your expectations, i.e. the drinking.

I just wanted to point out, that alcohol and drug addictions aren't something you can just switch off, even with the best of intentions. It is hard enough for most, even with AA or other types of addiction counselling. Relapse prevention is a common thread, and much learning goes on to identify triggers, and learn new responses to avoid the substance.

And, when one person is in a relationship that they truly want to keep, and repair, and work on together, a simple promise to quit, without help, to me at least, is a promise that cannot be kept, without backing it up with action.

My boyfriend finished with me. We have finished like 10 times before, but this time I think it is for real. It was the strangest day. We have been apart for a long time, long distance relationship. I gave and gave and gave and felt it was time for him to show me that he really wanted to be with me. I started to test him by playing a more passive role. Even my mother and all my friends had told me that I gave way more than him and that I had to stop that,if not he would " eat me alive". It affected my own life because he would always ask " what do we do" and expect me to have the answer. Now that I plaid the passive part he finished. 2 months ago he said he would do anything, he would do what ever it took for having me for the rest of his life. He promissed to follow me wherever I go. He promissed to go out less, because it had been too much and a threat to the relationship. He failed on the last one one week ago. He was totally wasted and disappared for a day. But the point is that he today said he had to choose wheter to continue one more semester or to move in with me. He said he was scared and that I had let me down since I had been text messaging with a guy the time we had a break for 1 month because I did not tell him about it. I have apologized for not saying it and I take the blame. Maybe that is why it all went to hell.. Maybe. He has failed on me several times and much worse, but the point here is not that.

So he said today " Since I am the one giving everything and I am willing to sacrifice my life and everything for you, you choose wheter I stay or I move in with you" I said: " Come here". We said June, but did not agree on any spesific date or month so I looked at tickets for June, July and August. When I said that July would be a good month since I have a new place to live and not under the roof of my parents, which he already had expressed he did not want since they are my parents, I said he could come in July. He exploted and attacked me. He called me a liar, manipulating woman,I was driving him crazy. He attacked me so suddenly because I changed the month from June to July. Did it for the best for us all, and as well because my father is sick so he might not like to have people in the house. He said I could not make a single sacrifice and that he was giving up his entire life. He said I changed it for my own well being. He asked me to stop looking for tickets and if I mentioned June again he would never talk to me again. He exploted in my face. I felt helpless. No matter what I said it was wrong. He said I had made a fool of him and his family and that he had just told everybody that he was moving. ( in less than 10 minutes and his mom and dad knew already he claimed) so from black to white, he said he would study and move on with his life and get me all out of his plans. All of this hit me in less than 10 minutes. From marriage to hard break up in 10 minuts. I am really surprised and I almost think the crazy one is him. I really sit here wondering what on the planet happened. He was so ugly with me the whole day, pushed and accused me. He attacked me, then wanting to marry me and then break up. I am totally confused and exhausted. We did not talk about anything. It was all him taking it out on me and if I said something he shot back and twisted everything. It was awful. I am hurt, but it is as if it was not the one I know, but a stranget talking.

When I say attack and push it is verbal via skype.

You're not going to like to hear this...

You call him crazy. I can't say anything about him because I haven't heard his side of the story but honestly, I am going to call you crazy too. You played games with him and it blew up in your face and now you don't understand it. That's funny. What did you think would happen when you started playing games and testing him? And to top it all off, you wanted him to move to you and have him give up school to do it. You couldn't even be good enough to wait until he was finished with school... but you are the one that always gives, right?

No, you're both better off without each other. For his sake, I hope he sticks to what he said and does finish school. If you're already playing games with him now and testing him, it surely will become worse if you two ever started actually living together.

EDIT- I see also that you've been lying to him about your bank account and such. Makes me wonder how much more is going on.

Take this opportunity to make this a very clean permanent break up forever as the preview was ugly, and bound to get worse.

Take this as a blessing in disguise move forward and never ever regret this whole ugly mess. Do better in the future.

THE END!

Now that the threads are merged and I have taken the time to read your earlier stuff, I decided that I may have been too harsh on you.

I still say you shouldn't play with or test people... look what you get. I still say that you're both better off without each other. I still wonder what else is going on.

Just thinking maybe I was a little mean... if you portrayed him accurately, he sounds like a loser... just be done and move on.

I'm doubting this is over for good. On June 2 you posted you were done with him because he went out drinking again. Now you've obviously given him a second chance that only lasted 2 days.

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Originally Posted by J_9

I'm doubting this is over for good. On June 2 you posted you were done with him because he went out drinking again. Now you've obviously given him a second chance that only lasted 2 days.

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You are right. It may not be, it has lasted and lasted with sevaral break ups. It is frustrating because things feel unfair, but the love is there. It is a mess of strong feelings vs. how things should be, how I imagine mr. dream man, what is expected by our families, and how things in reality are. Everything is in conflict. When I stop thinking that things are unfair or that he does things that is unaccepted by society like verbal abuse, and I just don't worry about the drinking I am the most happy person, as soon as I think my thoughts are worse than anything because they make me doubt so much.

You have your head in the clouds. If love was there, there would be NO breakups. If love were there, there would be little conflict.

I don't think you really understand what a healthy relationship is, because this is certainly an unhealthy relationship.

What culture is your family from? I haven't heard anyone say 'make him worship you' in 50 years in the US. Climbing down off the pedestal above the man who romances with roses and rings and promises meant that women were stronger in themselves and also didn't have the same idealistic expectations of men.
In other words, I wonder if you are hanging on to him ('mr. Dream man') from a fairy tale notion of love.
Yes, you did say worship and respect, but they really don't go together. Love is respect, admiration, compromise, acceptance, ability to disagree and even fight, knowing that the next day the relationship will be stronger.

He's not very likely to change. Sounds like just the alcohol will be a lifetime battle. Drugs too? It's often the case. You can do better than this but hard to imagine how you could do much worse. Set your mind to it and end it while it sounds like there is a golden opportunity to do so. I have a friend who took on what you are considering. That was 40 years ago. They are together because she has done all the earning, child rearing, counseling to keep it going, visiting him in jail due alcohol related occurrences. Now she is dealing with caring for the grandchildren during her retirement years who have failed partially due (in my layman's opinion) to the lack of a second parent positive influence. He provided nothing to the relationship at the start and it never changed over all those years. If you are the caretaker/volunteer etc type, try to take him under your wing and change him. If you want more out of your life, now is the time to make the decision. Good luck.