I will try and keep this fairly short, my son (age 35) met and married a girl in 2009, they now have 2 very small boys. Myself, husband and daughter always had our doubts about her, she has come from an unsettled background, never knowing her dad was has left looking after her 2 younger brothers, at one point she was in a children's home, she has a lot of anger in her. I did warn my son but he was smitten and married her.

We have always been a close knit family and my son and daughter were so close, however, my daughter and daughter in law didn't really get on and have not spoken for over 2 years, daughter has not spoken to her brother either. About 3 weeks ago, my daughter-in-law texted my daughter asking if they could meet up, my daughter was not keen as she told them she is busy and may meet up later on. A few nights ago, my son telephoned his sister and asked her why she would not see them, and was told she is too busy. Things got heated, accusations were thrown and my daughter in law called my daughter some very filthy names, most four lettered. The call was cut short and my daughter phoned me in bits, I was upset as well. I normally looked after my son's eldest boy on a Wednesday but felt I couldn't do it as it would have been letting my daughter down, as she was so upset, I also didn't feel I could face daughter-in-law either after all the filthy language.

This has caused terrible problems with daughter-in-law, she has sent me nasty texts and says she will give someone else the privilege of looking after my grandson. A couple of nights ago she sent me a text and said that because of me and my daughter their marriage was over. She also tried to call me, 5 times in all but I would not answer the phone as I knew she would be abusive. My son phoned me next day and said she was kicking him out, but he would not be able to cope as he wants to be there for the 2 boys, they have talked and they are going to try again, however I am banned from seeing the boys. My son has already admitted that if it wasn't for the boys he would leave but he cannot bear to leave them.

I am at my wits end, I know I have to stand back but I am heartbroken, I have always tried to get on with the daughter-in-law but have often felt like I was footing around and walking on egg shells, she also falls out with people quite easily if they put a foot wrong. I don't know how I am going to cope without having some kind of access to my grandsons. To be honest, I don't see how their relationship can work if she has put so many restrictions on him. Has anyone got any suggestions?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

I'm assuming you want an honest answer and so - I think you are very involved in your son's life from your initial judgment of his wife (she was in a home and has anger issues) and your involvement in the argument between your daughter and your daughter-in-law. For whatever reason you placed yourself in the middle.

I also question why your son confides his marital problems to you and then expects you to act as if nothing is wrong.

I don't know how "close knit" (your words) your family is when the daughter-in-law and daughter get into an argument and the daughter stops speaking to both of them. Presumably these are adults - ?

I don't think you gave your daughter-in-law a chance. She got into an argument with your daughter so you wouldn't talk to her because she, the daughter-in-law, used foul language toward your daughter - ? Again, not your fight. Babysitting your grandchild would "let your daughter down" because she was upset over the argument? Ridiculous in my eyes. It's not your fight, although you very obviously have picked sides - and your daughter-in-law realizes it. So - who did you punish? Your grandchild.

Your dislike of your daughter-in-law comes through loud and clear. I do understand why she doesn't want her children in your presence. She is possibly concerned what you will/have said to them.

It also takes two people to argue. When your son and daughter-in-law wanted to meet with your daughter, as I understand things, your daughter was "too busy." That gives me an idea how important that family bond is to your daughter. After two years of not speaking I'd move Heaven and Earth to meet with her/him/them. Obviously your daughter does not feel that same way.

Your son is being disloyal to his wife by confiding in you, and that includes details which he can't possibly expect you to hear and forget. I don't think he's being fair to either one of you.

In short I'd stay out of arguments which don't directly involve you. At this point all you can do is do nothing and trust that the feelings of the moment will pass.

You didn't like her from the start. She'd be a fool if she didn't realize it. Maybe she's simply had enough.

Or maybe she has issues and needs counselling, individually or with your son.

Thank you for your honest reply. I did actually get on well with in law in the early days but had my doubts as she has various issues but always accepted her. My daughter is doing a degree course, has interviews and presentations to do, works and is a single mother so yes she is busy. Also my grandchild that I looked after on a Wednesday is only 2 so would not understand. My son does not really confide in me at all as he is quite a deep person it is only today that I asked him, if it wasn't for the boys would he still stay with her the answer was 'no'. He also said there were other problems but I did not question him on those. An abusive phone call and me not wanting to do the Wed babysitting is no basis for a marriage break up, there is obviously more. You are right when you say I have been stuck in the middle and have probably placed myself there but this is a very difficult situation. He would lose everything if he left, she has total control and now I feel she is holding him to ransom, she is also a very confrontational person and loves the drama of the arguments, I don't interfere but just feel that she has wrecked my family, she falls out with everyone, her mum, friends etc. She loves drama. Like you say, hopefully the moment will pass but I think it is going to take a long time.

I still don't understand why you decided to stop taking the child one day a week. He's too young to understand what? He doesn't have to know anything. Now more than ever the CHILDREN need as little disruption in their lives as possible. I'm sorry you have been banned from seeing the boys (by DIL, for what that's worth, since he has equal say), but you walked right into that. All you can do now is wait and hope that custody arrangements will work out. If your son moves back in with you, you will presumably see the boys half time.

It would have only been for that one day, I was willing to carry on for the weeks that followed, I just didn't feel that I could do it that day because of what happened. I don't think my son will move back in with me, and if he did she would probably put a ban on me seeing them anyway. She pulls all the strings and he goes along with it. I have tried to make things work with her, helping in the house and with the kids dropping everything to babysit at a moments notice (I don't mind this by the way) but have always felt she was set to make an argument. She did it on my son's birthday 2 years ago, I was just chatting to her generally and she went into a rage for no reason, so it is not all my fault.

I agree with "Joy." The child is too young to understand what? That his Grandmother wouldn't see him/babysit with him because she was angry with his mother for something his mother said to his aunt?

What?

You don't have to tell someone you don't like them in order to get that particular message "across."

I, likewise, was - at one point - a busy person. I went to school and worked 3 jobs. Yes, 3 in order to pay for law school tuition. I made time for my family. I'm not trying to place blame. I just don't think your daughter-in-law is the only person who didn't act like an adult.

And were I the mother and the grandmother couldn't/wouldn't pickup my phone calls and/or babysit as planned because of a third-party argument, yes, I'd be upset, too. And what is your son to say? No, he stays with her because he loves her, further upsetting you? I think he took the cowardly way out.

I think he should suggest counseling for himself, her or both of them.

Perhaps you don't realize that your son has equal rights to the children (unless a court says otherwise, which I hear no reason for)? So even if he doesn't move back in with you, if he moves close enough to you to drive back and forth, you can see the boys more than ever.

It's never all anyone's fault nor do I think the majority of the problem is your fault. I do think you got sucked in, and I think the decision not to babysit that one day may very have been the excuse your daughter-in-law was looking for to get angry and stay angry. I don't know her, but it's possible.

I'll repeat what I said - counseling!

Yes you are right I have been sucked in, my mistake unfortunately, It is very possible that in law was looking for a fight, she does this on a regular basis. I have only very briefly touched on the situation in my first post, but my daughter was in hospital with an appendicitis 3 years ago, when in law went to visit she fiddled with the drip (not in a malicious way), saying that the nurses hadn't got it on the right setting this caused her to have too much fluid going into her kidneys. When the nurse spotted it, she said it could have killed my daughter. During the phone call the other night, lots of the past got brought up and my daughter said 'well when I was in hospital you tried to kill me', this started the torrent of abuse', there were other accusations as well, at this point my daughter phoned me in a state. I just did what I thought was best.

I know, we all do what we think is best on the time knowing what we know and not being able to see the future.

I guess only time will change things.

Well, to follow up from my post yesterday, there have been developments, I had an abusive text from the DIL at midnight saying I had messed up her family (4 letter word was used), son phoned this morning to say he had to call the police because she was violent to him, she was arrested and taken into custody. The girl has serious anger issues. I have got the blame as I believe she wants my son to stop having contact with me. God I wish he had never met her.

What a sad situation, particularly for your grandchildren, who, by the sounds of things, are facing a lot of heartache because of the adults in their lives.

I think it is important for you to take a step outside of this situation. There is nothing positive or productive coming from trying to sort meaning from conversations with your daughter, your daughter in law, or your son. It is beyond your ability to repair or resolve all the differences.

To continue to alienate your daughter in law, may very well leave you without any contact with your grandchildren, and I presume your daughter as well.

You can communicate your thoughts effectively without having to pick up the phone or have conversations with anybody over anything.

Why not try to set some boundaries. Write to BOTH your son and daughter in law, on one letter to both (or email), that you find that you need to step out of their personal problems, and let them resolve what they need to resolve, within their relationship, and their relationship alone. Boundary one- you respect their space, they respect yours.

Offer the olive branch of not engaging in any arguing with either of them, or prodding, or discussions about their life together. Boundary two- setting the stage for better communication.

Suggest that in a couple of weeks, perhaps they might consider coming to dinner so you can see them. You promise no slipping back into any discussion that is uncomfortable to you, in your own home. Boundary three- your home, your direction.

In the letter, refrain from any comments that sound like excuses, or anything that may sound less than respectful and kind. Keep your opinions to yourself.

If you change the situation and stick to a few boundaries, everybody knows what the rules are, and no one will feel they are being set up for an ambush, or expected to explain themselves, or their actions of the past. It's just dinner. Keep it polite and respectful.

Be a leader instead of a participant and 'equal' in this family rift. Take the higher road, and a firm stand to never involve yourself in their personal business. It is an important underscore to what you are trying to accomplish. As long as your son can come running to mommy, and she is aware of that, she will feel you are not sincere, and not playing fair. She needs to feel that her marriage is her marriage, not the family marriage involving in-laws.

Whatever her problems may be, in my opinion they are no greater or less than your own daughter. Consider extending the same boundaries to her. She needs to learn, probably the hard way, that you are not going to support decisions she makes about her own life, good or bad. She too, needs to keep her opinions to herself, and you need to tell her you don't want to hear them.

It may take time, so expect that your sudden departure from the family drama will be suspect. You will be tested. Your children are used to you being very inolved in the intimate details of their adult lives.

So to you, I say, simply, separate yourself from your adult children, and let them be adults, and solve their own problems. You are doing them no favours in being a referee. If they don't learn how to rely on themselves, and each other, you will forever stop them from truly being independent, and able to make their own decisions, and suffer their own consequences so they can learn.

Their problems, stop on your doorstep.

I totally understand your concerns as a mom over the lives of your adult children, but step back mom, way back, because this is your son's business to cope with. Its troubled times for the adult kids, but under no circumstance should you allow yourself into their mess.

Anything that doesn't involve love and support, leave it alone for now, as somebody has to keep a cool head in bad times, and you are the oldest, and more experienced adult. You may even have to keep your attitude, and opinion to yourself for a while as they make the decisions they have to for themselves.

I know what your going through, but you just have to trust they will get through this. The hardest thing we grandparents go through is letting go of our kids and let them fight their own battles, because in the end we want the best for them, and want those grand kids in our lives. Shame we have so little control over them.

But they will get through this, just keep your distance, and sanity. They will need it later.

Thank you for your honest replies, I feel a little better and all what you have said makes sense. I think I have already lost contact with the 2 young grandchildren, I know that she has banned me from seeing them That hurts, Yes I should have turned up to babysit that day, something just held me back, I couldn't face the confrontation and DIL is very confrontational, I may think about the letter but knowing her nature I think she would just throw it in the bin. She doesn't want to know me, I don't feel as if I have done anything that bad except take sides with my daughter, and this is what happened. DIL has many problems that need to be addressed, she does fall out with everyone, her mum from time to time, brothers, sister-in-law and a close friend who is god mother to her eldest child, so it is not just me. I feel that she has caused a lot of destruction within the family and this hurts.

Well, since my posts in February, things are certainly unravelling. My son has left DIL, to add to what is going on, my son thinks that she is having an affair, I must admit from what he says he may be right due to her having quiet conversations on the phone in the back yard so he can't hear, hiding her phone, refusing to let him see her call logs, if she was innocent she wouldn't mind doing this surely? She originally blamed me and my daughter for their marriage being in trouble but I believe that was an excuse.

I wrote to my DIL about 4 weeks ago and apologised for not turning up to babysit that day and asked for her to draw a line under everything and move on but she just sent me nasty texts. Myself and my ex husband went to see her (my son's request) to try and sort things out, I asked her what she wanted me to do, she said you will have to prove yourself, she spoke to us like we were a couple of naughty children. During all this we have remained calm but she was having none of it, she ended up getting abusive, shouting, saying we don't care about our grandchildren, in the end she told us to get out and f*** off. We did try, very hard to make amends but failed unfortunately. My ex husband has had abusive phone calls from her and he has high blood pressure problems and all this is not doing him any good. My son is now staying with me, he is paying maintenance for the boys but she wants more and has threatened to stop him seeing the boys if he doesn't cough up so she is using the children as weapons which I think is absolutely shocking. I just wish he had listened to us and his sister years ago, we warned him that this would happen.

DIL has serious emotional problems although to her she is perfect and doesn't do anything wrong. Her temper is vile. I reckon their marriage is all but over but it is the 2 little boys I am so worried about and I don't know what to do except support my son.

'she wants more and has threatened to stop him seeing the boys.. '

She can't do that. She can't stop him from seeing the boys at all, unless a court orders it. I tried to tell you this twice 2 months ago. He needs to go to Family Court and file for shared custody NOW. But even before court, he can see them. He can even 'take' them as long as she knows where.

You have to stop saying several times now that you wish this and that had never happened.

He has to take some command of his own life with no help from either you or your ex. This is so much more his problem. Despite the fact that you may be 'right', you, your ex, your son, and your daughter are all against her. This serves no good purpose, and in fact, all it does is corner her all alone like a wounded animal, vile though her temper may be. He will do much better handling this all by himself.

Stay out of this as either your son handles his business properly or doesn't. Let him handle his own stuff, its his life. I understand your concerns, and loyalty's but stay out of this.

Not only is your grandson too young to understand why you wouldn't watch him as you had apparently already committed to do, I don't understand it either and I'm pushing 50.

Here's the deal - your daughter in law was given a life that is the psychological and practical equivalent of a poop sandwich. Coming into your family, your son was attempting to give her the opportunity to be part of your more stable "close" (as you call it) family. But both you and your daughter, apparently with full support from one another, indicted her early on for overcoming terrible circumstances which were entirely beyond her control in her childhood.

Where you went wrong was providing judgment instead of loving acceptance. Instead of overlooking things that don't need to be blown out of proportion - such as behaviors in the heat of the moment when she's hurt and angry, and understanding she was never taught better; you determined to exaggerate and fertilize the situation by expanding it into totally unrealted family relationships and arrangements.

You and your daughter are both wrong and you both owe your son and his wife an apology. She should apologize to you, too, but you have deeply hurt her and she may not have the skills nor the emotional ability at this point, such as any level of trust in her relationships with you and your daughter (which, sorry - is largely your fault) to offer that apology at this point. You should let that part of it go until the relationship is mended, and then tread very carefully in letting her know what you need.

First, your daughter should have met with her brother and his wife without making excuses. I really don't care that she's a working single mother. So am I. There is NO request that my brother or sister or their spouses could make of me that would not be a huge priority for me. I would NEVER tell my brother or sister that a conversation they want to have with me interferes too much with my work, parenting, cleaning the refrigerator, washing my hair or whatever lame nonsense I might come up with because they would know it's a bunch of bull and that, if I cared, I would meet with them.

For a woman who has been let down at every step by family, both her own and yours, to reach out to mend the rift and try to talk to your daughter and help her husband get his sister back - well, just know the emotional cost of that gesture, when she does not know how she will be treated or viewed or whether she will even be heard - is enormous. Your daughter should have met her half way, or given that she had the benefit of your close and loving family, perhaps 3/4 or more of the way.

As for you, you should have simply told your daughter, "you should make time for your brother - you're wrong in this situation." and you should have told her, "I'm not getting involved - I love both of you". You never should have dragged your babysitting arrangements into the situation.

You describe your family relationships as close but neither you nor your daughter have a relationship that's worth much with your son, and you are putting petty grievances above the best interests of your son's family - not only him but also his wife and children.

I think you should call your daughter in law. You should apologize for not taking her calls. You should tell her you were wrong to get involved in the disagreement between your kids and that you were wrong to cancell the child care arrangement.

You should also tell her that you realize you have been unfair to her, expecting her to understand your family expectations and to operate the way your family operates, given that she was not raised in your family. Tell her that you were offended by her language, but that you realize that what you did was equally disrespectful of her and you would like a fresh start. Tell her that your son loves her, and that she should not let a lack of understanding of each other's feelings interfere in her marriage and undermine what's best for her, your son and the children and tell her you want to try harder to have a better relationship moving forward.

I think you should also call your daughter and tell her you've realized the two of you were wrong to commiserate and you should have tried harder to understand the hurt caused by this lack of communication for two years. Tell her that while the language wasn't appropriate, you both made too much of it - the young lady was deeply hurt and was lashing out in frustration. Your daughter created that frustration and should own some responsibility for not simply making herself available to talk things through as requested. Her refusal was a deeply wounding thing to do for which she should apologize.

When you and your daughter do meeet with your daughter in law again, you need to talk about a tenth of the amount that you listen to your son and daughter in law, even if they offend you. Do not react in the moment. Let things go, try to understand how it feels to be them and do not offer excuses or justifications or argue - just listen and absorb. Your mission should be to understand her and to support her relationship with your son. Her understanding of you can be addressed later. When some trust is renewed and you are in a more comfortable place with her, you can carefully and respectfully ask her to make some adjustments in turn.

You have to try harder than she does. Why? Because you have not been what she's been through and life isn't fair. It certainly hasn't been fair to her. You have to work with people from where they are in life, not hold them to a standard that they don't even know exists. The motivation should simply be love, and the fact that you're able to do more. At some point in life, someone else - maybe her - will meet you more than half way when you have such a need.

People do swear when they are angry. It's not a flattering behavior, but it only inflates things to start focusing on an angry, hurt person's language instead of what they are trying to say. I think your daughter in law was trying to tell your daughter, "you are morally reprehensible and cruel to deny your brother a chance to mend this rift with you; you are really being mean to be so judgmental of me; and you are hurting my husband, which hurts me in return, especially since you're using me as an excuse to hurt my husband". She may not have been able to find the words in her anger and instead might have called her a "B" or said "F you" or whatever. Frakly, it sounds like your daughter WAS being a "B". If the shoe fits...

You can win the relationship or the argument but not both. I think you owe it to your family to win the relationship.

Dontknownothing - you've surpassed yourself. Well said, clear and concisely - absolutely the best!

10 out of 10!

I think one sentence out of everything you've written absolutely describes where you are coming from - " I just wish he had listened to us and his sister years ago, we warned him that this would happen."

Yes, you certainly were right but the cost has been high - to you, your DIL, your entire family... and children who will grow up without a grandparent on their father's side.

And as far as all of this turmoil raising your husband's blood pressure and possibly making him ill - I have high blood pressure, too, well controlled. If his is so out of control that a family argument makes it worth mentioning he needs to see another Physician - or the same Physician, more frequently. I am so tired of grandparents playing the "health" card - "Do what I say because I'm old and/or in poor health."

I'm an investigator and I do handle family matters. I hear that all the time. If grandparents would stay out of the fray and do nothing but support the grandchildren everyone would be far better off.

As far as what the DIL threatens or doesn't threaten, it's your son's ATTORNEY who should be giving him advice and/or heading her off when she threatens.