Ask Me Help Desk - Sewage Ejector Pump Backup Help

Hello,

I have a sewage ejector pump in my finished basement. It has no backup. I figured I should invest in some sort of a backup system, but I need some help.

The pit ejects the bathroom sink and toilet waste, washing machine and also my kitchen drains to the pit too including the sink and dishwasher. It would appear that there is one pump and a sensor in the pit.

Two questions:
What type of backup system would be best and most economical?

Is a secondary pump really necessary? Should I just get a battery type backup for the existing pump and if so, what do I need to buy?

I called one plumber who proceeded to tell me there's only one pump out there that fits the bill and it would cost me $6,000. Seriously! This can't be right. It's a pump, not a bar of gold and I'd need to win the lottery to afford that amount.

Any help you guys can offer me to understand what exactly I need to buy to properly backup this system,and get it installed economically.

Isn't there some sort of battery backup like I have for my computer? It's basically just a battery that you plug your computer into and then plug the battery into the wall. If power at the outlet is interrupted, the battery provides the power to the computer. Why can't something like that work?
Many thanks for any advice!

Hi Ncrobino

Sewage ejectors in basements do not usually require a secondary pump. Here, if the pump fails the fixtures don't drain and then you know there is an issue and can fix (unclog) or replace the pump at that time (never call that $6000.00 plumber back... bad dude!).

In your case, being that the basement is finished, I would think your money would be better spent installing some flood control meausures. Here, you could install the LEAK GUARDIAN leak detection system... a RF transmitter that sends signals to an automatic shutoff if it detects water at any of the fixtures or at the sewage ejector pit. Check it out at:

http://www.petro-meter.com/pdfs/Leak-Guardian.pdf

You would install the shut off valve on the water main and purchase say 3 or 4 transmitters (about $600.00 total). I would also install one of the transmitters (another $75.00) next to the water heater. This system would protect the basement from most types of water damage and alert you if the sewage ejector pit started to overflow in any way!

Finally, for another $500.00 you could purchase an INVERTER and a deep-cycle marine battery ($100) and have the battery back up for the sewage ejector should the power go down temporarily... easily installed by you!

Heck of alot cheaper than $6000.00, huh?

That's my thoughts...

Mark

Mark!

Many thanks my friend.

Well I wondered about a solution like you've mentioned too. Thank you!

Some follow up questions.

Here's why I thought I would need the backup pump and battery:

The toilet downstairs, on one occasion, was found to be running when we got home from being away all day. The pump was going off, had that failed... No alarm could've notified us.

Also, the washing machine and dishwasher are attached which both could potentially pump water continuously... But this would be stopped as your device actually shuts off the main home water supply if the pit is not being pumped, correct?

Lastly, the inverter, is that just a battery and is setup as I described at the end of my original note? No opening of the pit?

$6,000. I want to smack that guy. I'd hug you though for the help. Thanks

Can you give me more specifics on the marine battery I would use, what kind of inverter exactly and how to set it up? My local plumbers I've called are claiming there is no battery method with enough juice to properly backup a sewage pump and my only solution on this front is to buy an automatic backup generator which is more of a whole house application than and would be much more costly, don't you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Hi Ncrobino

Sewage ejectors in basements do not usually require a secondary pump. Here, if the pump fails the fixtures don't drain and then you know there is an issue and can fix (unclog) or replace the pump at that time (never call that $6000.00 plumber back...bad dude!).

In your case, being that the basement is finished, I would think your money would be better spent installing some flood control meausures. Here, you could install the LEAK GUARDIAN leak detection system...a RF transmitter that sends signals to an automatic shutoff if it detects water at any of the fixtures or at the sewage ejector pit. Check it out at:

http://www.petro-meter.com/pdfs/Leak-Guardian.pdf

You would install the shut off valve on the water main and purchase say 3 or 4 transmitters (about $600.00 total). I would also install one of the transmitters (another $75.00) next to the water heater. This system would protect the basement from most types of water damage and alert you if the sewage ejector pit started to overflow in any way!

Finally, for another $500.00 you could purchase an INVERTER and a deep-cycle marine battery ($100) and have the battery back up for the sewage ejector should the power go down temporarily...easily installed by you!

Heck of alot cheaper than $6000.00, huh?

That's my thoughts...

Mark

Hi guys!

Tom, we're talking about a sewage ejector here, so battery back up sump pumps won't work here! And, just FYI, in my opinion, battery back up pumps are definitely old school and outdated as of late! Here, these deep-cycle marine battery with power inverters are the only way to go as they allow the user to use the powerful pumps in place and do not rely on the smaller back up pumps or require installing the new pump in the sump pit or ejector pit (or lowering the pit to accommodate the new pump).

Ncrobino, check out this article of real time experience with these inverters I am talking about. The technology isn't so new, but using it for home appliances/pumps is pretty new so not so surprised to hear that your local plumbers may not be on top of this stuff... ;)

Power Inverters | Power Inverter Review - Consumer Reports

Note here that the inverter they use are in this article is a max. 1500 watt and under $200.00. The inverter I mentioned using here would probably be around 5000 watts or more and as mentioned earlier, would cost more ($500.00ish). Also note that these guys are not talking about a deep-cycle marine battery... they use their simple car battery in the examples.

You can also click on this link from the inverter store... call them up and see exactly which inverter they recommend for this application:

Power Inverters and Solar Inverters for Home and Businesses - The Inverter Store

Finally, to answer your questions:

Yes, the leak guardian shuts off the water supply to the entire house if you are home, or not home, so really a smart investment to protect your home 24 hr/365 days a year!

Correct, no opening of the pit for an inverter installation. Here, you install the deep-cycle marine battery (or two if you really want to be protected for worst case) on a wall near the pump and then install the inverter to the marine battery (about $100.00 each by the way) which keeps the battery "trickle charged" at all times via the 120 outlet the inverter plugs into and then you plug the pump into the inverter. When power goes down, the battery is fully charged and inverts the 12V power in the marine battery to 120V and runs the sewage ejector, or sump pumps, or refrigerators, etc... ;)

Check into it and then come back and give me that hug, OK? :)

Mark

Mark! Thank you!

So I'm going to look into this battery inverter combo STAT!

As for the water Guardian, is there any way to put a sensor in the pit? Ideally I'd like it to shut the water off BEFORE it starts overflowing. There's still residual water in the line once it shuts off, so shutting it down prior to starting the overflow would be nice.

Lastly, my ejector pit had a hole where the cords from the pump came out. I put a makeshift plug in there and siliconed around it all. That said, I'm not sure it would hold back any pressure if the pump had failed. Are there forces inside that would cause the waste to backup into the basement shower or toilet as opposed to overflowing out of the pit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Hi guys!

Tom, we're talking about a sewage ejector here, so battery back up sump pumps won't work here! And, just FYI, in my opinion, battery back up pumps are definitely old school and outdated as of late! Here, these deep-cycle marine battery with power inverters are the only way to go as they allow the user to use the powerful pumps in place and do not rely on the smaller back up pumps or require installing the new pump in the sump pit or ejector pit (or lowering the pit to accommodate the new pump).

Ncrobino, check out this article of real time experience with these inverters I am talking about. The technology isn't so new, but using it for home appliances/pumps is pretty new so not so surprised to hear that your local plumbers may not be on top of this stuff...;)

Power Inverters | Power Inverter Review - Consumer Reports

Note here that the inverter they use are in this article is a max. 1500 watt and under $200.00. The inverter I mentioned using here would probably be around 5000 watts or more and as mentioned earlier, would cost more ($500.00ish). Also note that these guys are not talking about a deep-cycle marine battery....they use their simple car battery in the examples.

You can also click on this link from the inverter store...call them up and see exactly which inverter they recommend for this application:

Power Inverters and Solar Inverters for Home and Businesses - The Inverter Store

Finally, to answer your questions:

Yes, the leak guardian shuts off the water supply to the entire house if you are home, or not home, so really a smart investment to protect your home 24 hr/365 days a year!

Correct, no opening of the pit for an inverter installation. Here, you install the deep-cycle marine battery (or two if you really want to be protected for worst case) on a wall near the pump and then install the inverter to the marine battery (about $100.00 each by the way) which keeps the battery "trickle charged" at all times via the 120 outlet the inverter plugs into and then you plug the pump into the inverter. When power goes down, the battery is fully charged and inverts the 12V power in the marine battery to 120V and runs the sewage ejector, or sump pumps, or refrigerators, etc...;)

Check into it and then come back and give me that hug, OK? :)

Mark

No way to put a sensor in the pit. However, the sensor at the pit SHOULD really only be there as a back up sensor just in case water should get out of the pit. Here, that pit should be gas-tight so issues should develop at the toilet and shower before overflowing the pit, right? In other words, if the pump stopped working for any reason, the toilet couldn't flush and the shower wouldn't drain, etc.. . may get some dribble at the pit or not.

A leak guardian sensor behind the toilet may be good, a sensor at the pit, a sensor at the water heater and at the washing machine area should cover you pretty good.

Thanks. Well, that's what I thought "should" be, but like I mentioned... There is a hole in the kid for the cords to come out. It's air right only by a piece of cardboard covered and slathered in silicone to seal around the cords... Not something that would hold back a flood. I didn't know if the pit level rises above the entry hole for waste inside if it would continue to fill and overflow or start to push out the fixtures. If the flood is relying on this airtight lid to hold it back, it won't...

Kid=pit

And good idea behind the toilet. Ill get an extra sensor

In my experience silicone around the cord holes and the pipe seals and a quick bead around the lid work real good at holding the water back... usually keeps things to a trickle and by then the homeowner notices the fixtures don't work.

Shouldn't be any floods if you have the sensors in place!

Thanks for the confirmation! Very helpful!!