Hello:

Right wingers recognize that they LOST the Hispanic demographic bigtime, and they want to change that.. Apparently, that means they're going to back a comprehensive immigration bill...

But, that bill IS going to let the illegals STAY (amnesty). If it isn't, why even talk about it? How is that going to fare amongst rank and file Republicans who've been told for years, that the illegals are taking their jobs? How is smoothy going to be with it?

I don't think it'll fly.. I don't think the party can or will do an about face. Do you?

excon

I suppose you also think non-Americans should have the right to vote here too... like a certain well known left winger from Kalifornistan was caught publicly saying a few years ago.

Hello smoothy:

I don't know who that is, and I don't care. No, I think only CITIZENS should vote... There. I answered YOUR question.. Now, will you answer mine? Are you cool with amnesty? A yes or no will suffice.

excon

I know we can't send everyone back, but can we secure the borders or do you just want to let 'em keep coming in illegally?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I know we can't send everyone back, but can we secure the borders or do you just want to let 'em keep coming in illegally?

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Aren't the borders secure? Canadians aren't rushing in illegally any longer, and drones fly over the Mexican border, plus fences are up and guards are patrolling.

Hello again, Steve:

You remind me of the people who still yell about the federal prison country clubs... Uhhhh, they disappeared 30 years ago..

You've been yelling about securing the border for at least the past 8 years... Uhhhh, without electrifying the fence or building a moat, the border IS secure..

Now, if you mean secure, as in NOBODY EVER crosses it, then a secure border will only happen in your dreams. But, instead of treating our country like an armed camp, why don't we just make immigration INTO the US easier? If we did that, we wouldn't need a fence at all.

You're not afraid of losing jobs are you? Do you want to wash dishes? Do you know anybody who does? Americans don't want those kinds of jobs.. I'm reminded about an episode in Alabama last summer... They had just passed a DRACONIAN immigration law, and all the lettuce pickers fled. Instead of Americans taking those jobs, the crops rotted in the fields...

Or, maybe you don't know the present immigration process takes YEARS and costs $1,000. Our lettuce pickers and dish washers don't HAVE years and $1,000's. The immigration process should take WEEKS and cost a couple hundred $$'s.

You don't get that, or you'd understand why our dishwashers sneak across the border. You accuse them of not waiting in line, when waiting in line ISN'T an option for our dishwashers.. Their family is hungry TODAY. It's not really difficult to understand.

excon

And what you don't understand is that we are more than happy to reform immigration... the Rubio plan works for me.. But in exchange ,at a minimum we want operational security of the border (I'm more concerned with a terrorist and a bomb walking across the border than a dishwasher );,a better method of visa tracking ,(maybe photo id's )and enforcement in the workplace of existing law.
The Dems won't agree to those terms because for them ,immigration is a wedge issue they can continue to play politics with.

Nobody believes the repubs except other repubs, that's the wedge issue. Every solution and policy you guys bring up people run the other way. Except YOU guys.

You got your fence you got your guards and it still ain't enough, now you want your immigration bill. When are you guys going to figure out that hollering, throwing rocks, calling names, ain't going to help your dwindling numbers get any more people on your side.

Seems like you are the only one throwing rocks here. Like I said ;your side has identified this as a wedge issue. It is your side that is not open to rational debate.

My side has identified your sides intransigence as the wedge issue and that's not throwing rocks at all, its an observation of your words and actions that have led many to the conclusion that reasonable debate is not going to happen with your side.

Refusing to make an immigration policy until the border is secure and being a capitalist, knowing the costs the border can never be 100% secure without a whole lot more money.

The whole deal has been blocked for years about what kind of path to citizenship or "amnesty" would become law, but those that say NO amnesty have no solution other than self deportation.

I would hardly call what your side does as reasonable debate.

Who said 100% secure. That's your side putting words in our mouths to steer the direction of the debate. I congratulate them.. The lies and fear mongering against us seems to have worked.

Hello tal:

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the border can never be 100% secure without a whole lot more money.

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Even then, it'll NEVER be 100% secure.. If they can get drugs into a supermax prison, they can get drugs across the border... As long as the right wing holds up THAT red herring, or straw man, or canard (I don't the difference), immigration policy will NEVER be enacted...

Frankly, that'll HURT right wingers more than us. I thought that they were trying to SOFTEN their stance... And, that's why I brought it up in the first place.. It doesn't look like they're changing ANYTHING - not even the language.

Excon

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Originally Posted by tomder55

who said 100% secure. That's your side putting words in our mouths to steer the direction of the debate. I congratulate them .. The lies and fear mongering against us seems to have worked.

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So where is the immigration policy from you guys? What happened to the dream act you guys walked away from after you wrote it?

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello tal:

Even then, it'll NEVER be 100% secure.. If they can get drugs into a supermax prison, they can get drugs across the border... As long as the right wing holds up THAT red herring, or straw man, or canard (I don't the difference), immigration policy will NEVER be enacted...

Frankly, that'll HURT right wingers more than us. I thought that they were trying to SOFTEN their stance... And, that's why I brought it up in the first place.. It doesn't look like they're changing ANYTHING - not even the language.

excon

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Its an old story EX, delay and distract the posse while the robbers get away with the loot.

I guess I am throwing rocks.

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What happened to the dream act you guys walked away fromafter you wrote it?

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You mean shamnesty ?
The fact is that by doing nothing i.e. law enforcement (which is what the President and the Dems have done for years ) ;there is defacto amnesty ;and you still get to demagogue the issue. Amnesty means no consequences for breaking the law... and that is the defacto position we find ourselves in today.
Rubio will be introducing a series of proposals that no doubt will sit on Harry Reid's shelf . Therein lies the plan you ask of us. But your side prefers status quo ;and to only bring up the subject when there is a politically expedient reason to do so.

Hello again, tom:

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you mean shamnesty ?
The fact is that by doing nothing i.e. law enforcement (which is what the President and the Dems have done for years )

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Wow! How did you miss THIS?

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WASHINGTON -- Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials announced on Friday that the agency surpassed its record number of deportations in the past fiscal year, but also will enact reform of a controversial immigration enforcement program that could lead to fewer non-criminal immigrants being removed from the country.

The agency deported 409,849 immigrants in the 2012 fiscal year, up from 396,906 immigrants last year. More than 392,000 immigrants were deported in the 2010 fiscal year.

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Excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

Wow! How did you miss THIS?

excon

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I wonder if it has anything to do with the current prison population counts ?

Thanks to President Obama's immigration crackdown, Latinos lead federal prison population

As parole would normally occur then it seems deportation after time served would be an easy way to show effective numbers.

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Wow! How did you miss THIS?

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Because that is bogus .all you need to do is to include people who returned to their country on their own into the stats ;and it's easy to make the figures look impressive.
The President also admitted he cooked the books by including people that have been turned away at the border. The truth is that ICE is arresting far fewer people in the interior than ever before. 2010, ICE located fewer than half the number of deportable aliens in 2010 than they did in 2006 (517,000, down from 1.2 million).
So the President's inflated numbers come from people who have done what Romney called 'voluntary deportation' ,and people who have been turned away at the border.

You want real enforcement ? Put the heat on employers ,enforce e-verify to the fullest extend of the law. Keep looking at ways to increase border security . Then we can talk about a 'path to citizenship'.
That's fair... no ? We agreed to amnesty once before with those conditions ;and the Dems reengaged on their end of the bargain.

Hello again, tom:

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You want real enforcement ? Put the heat on employers ,enforce e-verify to the fullest extend of the law. Keep looking at ways to increase border security . Then we can talk about a 'path to citizenship'.
That's fair... no ?

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Fair? Of course not. What it IS, is moving the goal posts..

But, I'm THRILLED you and your fellow right wingers AREN'T going to change your tune. Like Christine O'Donnell insured the election of Harry Reid, your intransigence is INSURING the election of Hillary Clinton.

Excon

I think you mean Sharon Angle insured the re election of Harry Reid ex,

The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2010: A Summary | Immigration Policy Center

All those things were in the last bill but we know why it wasn't passed don't we?

Hello tal:

Yeah, I got to quit smoking that sh1t..

excon