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My daughter stayed in Sellers Home for Unwed Mothers in Tallulah Louisiana in 1991, before giving birth. She gave up the child for adoption. I want to find my grandchild. Does anyone know what hospital these young women gave birth at? Prior to 1989, they went to the charity hospital in Vicksburg, Mississippi (Kuhn). Thank you for your help.
The only ways you can search is to either look on reunion websites or to hire a licensed private investigator.
Does your daughter know you are searching? Does she want this?
Even when you find out the hospital, they won't release any information to you, sorry. Your daughter might be able to find out if her child was adopted or remained in an orphanage or foster home, but she's the only one with that right, and if the child was adopted, all she can do is apply to the state in case the now adult child put in a request to contact her. Neither she nor anyone has a right to information on how to contact an adopted child - unless that child asks - because in the eyes of the law he or she is now the child of the adopting parents.
I've been searching reunion websites, and just this week hired a private investigator. As for my daughter, we have been estranged since she was 16. She talks to my mother. I've not told them of my search. They do not know that I know about the baby, who would now be 21. No one will disrupt my daughter's life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
If I told my mother of my search, she'd probably have a heart attack, thinking I disapproved of what she did. Which I do, and if we discuss it, I don't how I'd keep from telling her how much she hurt me, giving my granddaughter away. I won't do that to my aged mother. I probably will never find my granddaughter, but if I do, then the focus is on my granddaughter's feelings, and my mother could probably handle that. An adoptee has a right to know her family, if she wants to.
I am aware that I have absolutely no rights as a grandparent. There's something wrong with that situation. No matter how the law sees it, that young woman is my family. It breaks my heart to think she'd look for our family (we have a large, warm family), and cannot find us because my daughter wishes not to be contacted by her child. My daughter is not a nice person. Even if she were decent, how can a mother's preoccupation with herself take precedence over the rights of her offspring?Quote:
Originally Posted by joypulv
I want to give my granddaughter the chance to know her blood family, IF she wants to. Adoptees should have SOME say in the matter, but according to the law, only if it's acceptable to the mother. In cases where the mother doesn't want to know her child, it's likely she's living a lie, and does not want her lie exposed. I don't believe lying is okay, and it's sure not an excuse to keep someone from knowing their biological family. I have no intention of exposing my daughter's lie. I haven't had contact with her in 22 years, nor has any of our family. Her husband and daughter will not hear about me finding her first daughter unless my mother chooses to tell them. But I probably will never find her, though I spend most of every day searching reunion websites.
If your daughter is "not a nice person", does it not mean that she's at least a GOOD person for choosing nice people to raise her child?
How have you and your family treated her and talked to her about the adoption in the last 20-odd years?
Birthparents suffer from some pretty extreme forms of depression and anxiety, and if you gave her hell about making the best choice she could for her child at the time--even if YOU do not agree, it was HER choice--and call her selfish and self-occupied for making a selfless choice... well, I wouldn't want to search so that you could give the child I put up for adoption grief either!
You have obviously done zero research on adoption and the consequences that birthparents deal with. Some women do not want contact because they cannot go through pain of opening old wounds again without it destroying them. Some of them have only been able to cope by pretending their child was dead. Some of them have been "living a lie", but only because society forced the lie upon them. Seriously--if society makes you go live in a home for unwed mothers and give your child away sight unseen so that you can hold your head up and be accepted (which IS how it was even as little as 30 years ago), well to hell with society.
I firmly believe that the ONLY people who should be searching are the adoptee and the birthparents. Everyone else is choosing to search for selfish reasons that may cause pain to the birthparent or the adoptee above and beyond what they are already suffering. By all means, continue to search reunion websites, but I have a feeling that the reason your daughter has had no contact with you in 22 years is because you didn't support and still don't' support her decision to choose adoption.
Obviously some of this is guessing on my part, and I apologize if I am wrong... but I came from a large, warm, loving, open, forgiving family who gave me absolute HELL for choosing adoption 21 years ago. I ended up suicidal and the only way I could cope for many years was to live far, far away from my family. I've never lied about being a birthparent, but I've been involved with other birthparents through support groups and other reasons for over 20 years now. Every woman's reason for choosing is different, and every woman's reason for disclosing or hiding the child she placed for adoption is different.
Some states do have limited grandparent rights. But not when a child has been adopted. I'm sure you've told yourself over and over that adopting parents have rights too, and after 21 years of loving and supporting, they are 'family' and you are only related by blood - unless she wants to look for you. I know I'm not telling you anything new.
I do wonder about the phrase that your daughter is 'living a lie' because she chooses to hide the birth. Perhaps there was something awful about how the pregnancy happened so young? Do you wish to elaborate?
It's sad that all this searching, probably fruitless, could be waltzed right around by reconciling with your daughter. But you don't have to defend your estrangement - it happens. No judgment.
(Synnen, just saw your response - her daughter doesn't even know that her mother knows she had a child.)
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Actually, around 16, my daughter ran away from home. She came home the following day but we explained she would be grounded, or she could go live with my parents, which she did. Six months later, she said her father (he and I have always been married to each other) had molested her. Not true, and no one believed her but my parents. My parents now realize they were wrong about him, and wrong about my daughter.
Not long after my daughter went to live with my parents, my mother wrote saying she was having problems with my daughter... prior to this, my daughter was perfect and I was just too critical. I wrote back that it was hard for me to discipline my daughter if she was constantly telling my daughter that I was wrong to do so. This is when we became estranged. About a year later, my daughter gave birth. My mother put her in the home for unwed mothers. The neighbors called to tell me, saying what they were doing was wrong. The neighbors knew I'd want the baby, and give her a good home. I checked into it, and was told I had no rights. So I kept my mouth shut, and prayed for the Lord's will to be done, eventually. At this time, neither my mother nor my daughter know I know about the baby they gave away.
My reasons for searching do feel selfish. I've prayed for years and years for her well-being, and it would be a great relief to know that she had a good life. At the risk of exposing myself to scammers, my husband and I have been blessed financially. She deserves to benefit from it, because she is blood. No strings. It's just the right thing to do. She must be found first. IF she wants to be found. My daughter has mental problems, which began in her early teenage years and have continued to this day, or at least that's what I hear from my mother. It doesn't seem right that one bad apple keeps my granddaughter from finding the large number of biological relatives who would welcome her. When you are with people who share the same blood, the same traits, you fit in and belong. That's priceless. She may have enjoyed that feeling in her adopted family, and I hope she did. But I've read stories of adopted children who never felt like they belonged. Someone like that would benefit from a reunion with biological relatives--if the relatives are decent. And ours' are. Some are nuts, of course, but in a good way.
Sorry for this being so long.
Given this was in 1991, there's a pretty good chance that your daughter arranged for some contact with the adoptive parents. By then it had become pretty common, particularly exchanges of photos and letters. So, assume that if you do this, your daughter WILL find out about it. Assume if you do this that it could result in the adoptive parents stopping ALL contact because they did not agree on being contacted by an estranged grandmother.
As an adoptive parent, I can tell you that I dealt with my son's birth parents at the time of the adoption and because the biological grandmother was pushing for more contact, we cut back across the board on contact to protect our privacy. I maintained contact with the birth parents but we added restrictions that were not originally in place, like telling them nobody could send gifts, and limiting their letters to once a year, whereas it had been "any time". The reason we did this was, in part, because the birth grandmother did not support the adoption and wanted to play the regular role of grandmother in our child's life. We weren't comfortable with that arrangement, nor was the birth mother, who needed more of a break so she could move on with her life.
I do not support your idea of seeking out this child. If it is not a somewhat open adoption, the child may not know he or she is adopted.
My daughter was 17 when she had the baby. Since I wasn't speaking to my mother, I don't know the details of how she became pregnant. I found out after she left our house that she'd been promiscuous when I took her roller skating, with boys she didn't know.Quote:
QUOTE by joypulv;
I do wonder about the phrase that your daughter is 'living a lie' because she chooses to hide the birth. Perhaps there was something awful about how the pregnancy happened so young? Do you wish to elaborate?
It's sad that all this searching, probably fruitless, possibly could be waltzed right around by reconciling with your daughter. But you don't have to defend your estrangement - it happens. No judgment.
I interpret the Bible to say a parent should excommunicate a child who is too wayward. I think that is the best hope to get a child to conform to the proper rules of society (i.e. not lying). Saying your father molested you is a serious, serious offense. It destroys the relationship, and cannot be repaired. She needs to admit this was a lie. The day she does this, she will be welcomed back into our family.
For the record, my husband traveled for work and did not spend much time with our kids, a son and daughter, so no opportunity for molesting. He had ample opportunity to stray during his travels, but I only heard good things from his co-workers, of his integrity. Our son says his sister is lying. We have a large social network of friends and family. My mother and daughter are the only 2 who thought badly of my husband, and my mother has since realized her mistake.
My parents took her to a counselor after the accusation. He told my parents she was lying, and would not enjoy his sessions when he made her face her lies, through all the discrepancies. My parents did not want to hear this, and did not go back. They left it up to my daughter to continue, and she stopped going.
When a child accuses a parent of any sort of abuse, if it's true, the parents do not deserve to be around the child. Excommunication is proper. If it's not true, the child needs to admit the lie, for his/her sake. If someone repeats a lie long enough, they begin to believe it. One lie leads to another and another... soon no one believes you about anything. From what I've heard, that describes my daughter today.
The lie I referred to was that her second daughter is her ONLY child. I'm not interested in what my daughter told her first or second husband, or her second daughter who is now 13. I'll talk to the second daughter, if she wants to talk to me, when she is 18. It would be wrong to embroil her in this feud until she's older. What matters to me now is my first granddaughter is old enough to meet us, IF she wants to. I will do all within my power to give her the opportunity.
I like to think she'd be glad to know us. But it's not about me. It's about her. Her rights seem to matter less than protecting the lie my daughter wants to put out there, that she only has one child.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontknownuthin
I see your point, and don't blame you. The difference is, my granddaughter is 21 now. I am trying to give her the opportunity to know us, IF she wants to. I have not been in contact with my daughter's second child, for the fact that it would not be in her best interest to be around grandparents when the mother says they are bad people. My mother has consistently pushed me to be involved, thinking it would be good for my second granddaughter to be around her grandparents. I said, "It would be terrible to put a child in that situation. Not until my daughter says she's been lying will I have a relationship with anyone in her family." But now that my first granddaughter is 21, she's entitled to know us... IF she wants to. It'll all about her.
Thanks for answering. I appreciate your thoughts.
I do realize my daughter will find out, IF I find my first granddaughter. At that point, the rights of my first granddaughter take precedence over the feelings of my daughter. My daughter has created a new life where she has no contact with any family, except my mother. Even if my first granddaughter finds me, it is not likely this situation would mean my daughter's new family would hear about it. Unless my daughter chooses to tell them. Or if my first granddaughter chooses to confront my daughter, which I would heartily discourage. It can't turn out well to contact people who do not wish to be contacted.
Bottom line: adoptee's have rights, and I want to give my first granddaughter the opportunity to know her blood relatives, and inherit financially what is rightfully hers. It ought to be her choice, but this is a 2 way street, and my daughter being the other part of the equation would cheat my first granddaughter of a lot... most importantly family.
It would seem logical that an adoptee asking to see if her mother has asked to be contacted could just as rightfully be told that another relative has put a request in the file.
Since you write well, perhaps a succinct description of what you have said here given to the dept of adoption records would result in your name being put in the file. But that is a very, very slim chance, given the laws. Perhaps your PI knows how to bend the rules, or shmooze the right person.
Thanks for your suggestion. I've called the adoption registry and was told I couldn't put anything in the file. I'm hoping the PI can find out something, and if not, I'll ask him if he can figure out a way to put something in the record. This is a really good idea! Thanks!
I am going to sound very very harsh, sorry.
This child first may not even know they are adopted and finding them could cause serous issues between her and her parents ( adopted but they are now her parents) She already has grandparents who she most likely loves and respects)
You are being very selfish and not considering the serious harm you may do to the child.
Next no this child does not have a loving family with you, what will she find, she finds you, but also finds her real birth mother, who will not want anything to do with her, and may even curse at her, or worst.
So finding her also means she finds her bio mother and finds no love, and no desire.to be found. That pain, that suffering is what you offer this child.
I agree, since you don't know if your action will be good or bad despite your intentions. I prefer that adopted children make the decision to find there blood relatives.
Making decisions for others doesn't always end well.
The possibility that this child does not know she is adopted is slim. Most adoptive parents today tell their children they are adopted. On the off chance she has not been told, I intend to contact her adoptive parents first--if I find them. We will discuss whether she's had questions, whether they think it's in her best interests to meet us. If they don't think it's in her best interest to meet me, I will ask them to take my name and phone number, for future reference, if they ever change their mind. Meanwhile, I will continue to monitor the internet, just in case she's looking, and the adoptive parents were wrong about her desire to meet her biological family.
Your point about her birth mother not wanting to meet her... I've thought of how difficult that would be to know. Long story short, if I was adopted, not knowing would be worse, for me. So I can only do what I would want someone else to do for me, and that is give me some information about myself and my family. In our case, I think knowing such a large, loving family and realizing her mother is just one person out of all the rest who would welcome her, if I was the adoptee... I'd be glad to find this biological family.
*sigh* Who can say. I'm biased. We treat others as we would want to be treated, and if I'd been adopted, I'd want to know who and where I came from.
You are not harsh. I've considered your points, and they are valid. Thanks for taking the time to answer. In the end, I've put this in the Lord's hands. If it is His will, then it will happen, and 'All things work for good to those who love the Lord.' So if I never meet my granddaughter, then that is for the best too, though it's not what I hope for.
I will have to disagree more than you know, I have been a counselor for adopted children having to deal with all of their problems, not knowing is really nothing and they learn that the parents who raised them is really the parents and the other people just had sex to make them born.
I have been there with the child that was cursed at by the bio father, spit on my the bio mother, that is the worst.
We will agree to disagree. I ordered some books on reunions. (Who knew there were books on the subject?) Hopefully they will give me some tips on doing this in a way that works best for my granddaughter. I have no preconcieved ideas about what kind of person she is, or expectations about any kind of relationship. It's all up to her.
I am sorry for those that had bad reunions. I do not believe the bad reunions make a case for everyone else to avoid a reunion. I like to believe in most cases, reunions are about family love. I love my granddaughter, whether she's bi-racial, handicapped or looks like a one-eyed budgie with a squint.
Yes, adoptees have had disastrous results from finding birth parents. That is the reason the contact information is now only given out when MOTHER and CHILD both put in a request to the state (in most states, and in most situations). This young adult isn't even going to be searching if she was never told she was adopted, so that part is moot. If she does know and does contact the state, and is told that her mother has no request in but a grandmother does, she could be free to make her own conclusions about what that means. But given the adherence to the law, I doubt it would ever happen.
I personally know a couple whose lawyer told them that for a certain amount of cash (for the judge), they could get the house that had been held up because of probate never being filed. Someone was just here saying that her divorce went through despite a MA law requiring both people to show a certificate for counseling, and her husband didn't go, and her lawyer agreed with his lawyer to lie about it to the court. People impersonate; forge signatures; forge documents; grease palms. Laws get bent all the time.
This situation is more serious and emotionally charged that getting a house on time or details of divorce requirements, of course. But I have to agree that an adoptee who WANTS bio info should be able to see a request from anyone in the bio family.
The birth mother still has her rights too of course, such as slamming the door in her child's face. But we all concede a bit on rights in all aspects of life and we have to weigh the rights of everyone who is affected.
Does the birth mother have the right to remain unknown and unreachable? That is the question.
If an adoptee connects with another relative and is warned not to seek out her mother, she is risking a lot of pain by trying. I suppose the mother could even sue the state if she did.
Therefore the entire law would have to be changed. Will it? I don't see it happening in the next 50 years.
Kathyandluther, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Janine and I come from a long line of adoptees/adoptives. Before I respond to you I would like to give you a bit of background so that you understand where I am coming from.
1) My husband is an adoptee, as is his brother and one sister;
2) My SIL (from my side of the family) gave up a child for adoption in 1991;
3) My cousin has adopted 5 children;
4) My aunt gave up a child for adoption in 1972; and
5) I am a nurse who assists in adoptions frequently.
Now, I understand you come from the deep south and are very religious. I come from the deep south myself. Memphis to be exact.
Before I give you my advice, I would like to share my stories with you, if that's okay.
To start, I'd like to tell you about my SIL who was adopted from Germany. She never felt whole when she knew she was adopted. With her parents' blessing she searched for her biological family. After an intensive search she found her biological mother and 3 sisters. She traveled to Germany only to be turned away and spat at by her biological mother. Two of her biological sisters told her that they wanted nothing to do with her. The third sister kept in contact with her for about 6 months when they parted ways under undesirable circumstances. My SIL has not been emotionally the same since then.
My BIL (who is moderately mentally retarded) searched for his biological mother as well, with his parents blessing. His results were that he was born mentally retarded because his birth mother was a drug addict and attempted a back alley abortion prior to Wade v. Roe.
My husband was born of Russian immigrants who were sent to this country for better education, however, they became pregnant while in college here in the states. It was a disgrace to their families back in Russia to have a child out of wedlock, hence the adoption. This is all we know about his biological parents. Quite the opposite of my husbands siblings, he wants to know nothing about who he came from as he considers his adoptive parents his real parents. He has stated on numerous occasions that he cares nothing about those people who birthed him other than maybe medical history. He is thankful that his adoptive parents gave him a wonderful life and considers them his parents.
Now, my SIL gave up a child for adoption in 1991, the same year your daughter gave hers up. My SIL also went to a home for wayward mothers in Michigan. That adoption was sealed as are most adoptions from homes such as this. Alaine does not want to know anything about this child as she was 15 at the time and it was something that she is not proud of.
My cousin who adopted 5 children have no idea that they are adopted. And they never will. Luckily they are products of my cousins' wife's family, so there is a familial resemblance.
My aunt who gave her daughter up for adoption in 1972 has had a reunion that went well and they are still in touch.
HARSHNESS WARNING
Now I go back to your religious beliefs, and we are going to have what I call a "Come to Jesus Meeting."
So, rather than trying to identify the reason why your child accused your husband of sexual abuse, it's easier to toss her to the street or to your parents? Rather than get to the bottom of the accusations and the reason why, you chose to toss her out like common garbage. It was your responsibility to get her into counseling. It was your responsibility to find out why she was spewing these accusations. Not your mother's. YOURS. But rather you "excommunicated" her. Your daughter was screaming for help, but rather than helping her you tossed her to the curb like common trash. It wasn't your parents' responsibility to take her to counseling. It was yours, but you failed her. Because tossing her out was easier for you.Quote:
I interpret the Bible to say a parent should excommunicate a child who is too wayward. I think that is the best hope to get a child to conform to the proper rules of society (i.e. not lying).
No it's not. You are the parent and you are responsible. Excommunication is proper for priests and/or nuns, but not your own CHILD.Quote:
Excommunication is proper
It is quite apparent that there are more issues that you are not willing to admit to. Issues within the family unit that happened way before she accused your husband of sexual abuse.
If you haven't figure it out by now, I am very angry that you think you deserve a relationship with this 21 year old girl. You don't. What you deserve is to get to the root of the hatred you have with your daughter, but you are using this "child" as a pawn.
You won't even have a relationship with the child she has now. What you are trying to do is to have a relationship with the child your daughter gave birth to 21 years ago so that you can throw it in your daughter's face. You want to seem like the better person. The Bell of the Ball. The rescuer. When in actuality, for reasons we don't know, you were the actual cause of the situation in the first place.
I know you, I know people like you. I know what will happen if you form a relationship with this child. You will throw it in the face of your daughter and make her feel worse than she already does.
You say that you have money you want to leave her. Good. Set up a financial fund that she could benefit from. Make it anonymous and let the adoption agency know.
Your actions are selfish and self-centered. You don't take into account the repercussions that could effect a plethora of people/family members.
It's all about you. Not the child involved. Just you.
*clunk off my soapbox*
If your daughter was raped, and chose to give birth rather than abort, and REALLY does not want to remember that time in her life---do you really think you have the right to open that can of worms?
What if it was an abusive relationship, and she placed the child so that the child could be safe and loved without EVER having to worry about the biological father hurting the child?
What if it was just the protection broke, but she knew she couldn't raise the child?
I disagree with Chuck that biological parents were just people who had sex and gave birth. That designation just ticks me off every time I hear it, and if I'd known I was going to be thought of that way for the rest of my life, you can bet your bottom dollar I would never have placed my child for adoption. I was and am a parent, who made the hardest and best parenting choice for my child that I could. Your daughter is the same.
Sorry, but frankly your daughters choices override yours here. If your daughter wants no contact with her child, you need to respect that choice and back off. However, you don't even KNOW, because you don't even talk to your own child. Frankly, to her point of view, you wrote her off as a teenager, and I don't blame her for not wanting you involved in her life now--you didn't stick by her when it was toughest, and didn't get her the help she needed then--why should she give you ANYTHING now?
If your biological grandchild comes looking for you, then welcome her.
Otherwise, you need to back off. This isn't YOUR child. It wasn't YOUR choices, and it's not YOUR life that could be completely upset by finding this child. You are respecting NO ONE'S choices but your own by searching more diligently than placing your contact information on reunion websites.
THIS is why adoption law needs to change. If grandparents and cousins and sisters and hamsters can overturn the choices made by the PARENTS---and NOT abusive choices, mind you--just because they WANT to, and feel they DESERVE it... well, congratulations. You upset the lives of at least 4 people doing so. I would be absolutely LIVID, and cut off all contact and probably sue my parents if they had attempted contact without talking to me about my choice, or if they had attempted to get custody or visitation after I chose adoption.
You claim to love your granddaughter without even knowing her, but your actions show that you don't love your daughter and don't care about any of the choices she made.
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