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I have a ungrounded wood stove, should I make it a priority to ground the stove & flue?
Is there any Nec chapters I want to review?
Should I use a separate groung rod or can I use near by house wiring gnd or run a separate line to main panel ground
Same question for a gas fired water heater flue.
Are you concerned about a possible lightning strike? Your water heaters is most likely already grounded via the plumbing pipes.
Lightning is always a possibility, So I want to "play it safe" But I also want to make sure there is no code violations to deal with if a loss ever occurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ballengerb1
The water heater is currently ungrounded, plumbing is cpvc plastic.
In researching the topic, the results are mixed with some suggesting leaving the applicances ungrounded as not to attract lightning.
Having a new installed solar panel array and grounded frames, makes for a big lightning rod.
So want to make sure all my ducks are lined up.
I have never grounded a water heater flue or a stove flue, lightning rod would be the best thing on the house.
Todd,
Just because you have PVC piping inside your home does mot mean you have an ungrounded system. The cold water electrical ground refers to the water supply pipe. Even with that, the pipe must extend at least 10' from the home.
But you should already know that. Have you checked the main service panelboasrd for an EGC? Have you checked for a connection to either one or two ground rods.
Metal pipes make bonding easier.
The plumbing is all plastic from the water meter into the house, I should know a I had to replace all the qest brand crap with glue together cpvc.. Even the gas line is buried pvc.
When I installed the new water heater I didn't think the flue might need to be grounded,
Todd,
You do know that the NEC is not a "How To" manual. It provides the "Minimum" requirements for a "Safe" installation (Article 90)
Thanks for the additional information. You are mixing two different terms. Grounding and Bonding. Basically, they serve the same purpose but in different ways. I'm paraphasing here so please don't shoot me if I'm not spot on. You can check the definitions for Grounding and Bonding in the NEC, Article 100. Also, Article 250 specifically addresses Grounding and bonding.
Are you using a bare copper ground conductor in your cables? Ground carries the amperage away from a circuit and discharages it into the earth ground.
Bonding means connecting all metal parts together so they would be at the same potential with reference to ground. This prevents things like getting a tingle when you touch the metal frameof the sink.
Not exactly. It is more important that the reference to the source be noted.Quote:
Bonding means connecting all metal parts together so they would be at the same potential with reference to ground.
The dirt outside has nothing to do with clearing faults and tripping circuit breakers.
I really think we need to clarify in the NEC the vast difference between the neutral/ground bond in the main service and a patch of dirt outside.
For some reason NEC treates a built-on-site home differently that a mfg home. In the end, either structure is basically the same, but according to Google searches NEC states the woodstove frame must be connected to a ground source, bolted to the floor (in case the home is ever relocated), and must use out side fresh air for combustion.
In case I didn't make this distinction earlier, the structure is, at least in the eyes of the county, still a mfg home.
The last requirement doesn't make much sense, to me at least.
The difference between the neutral/ground is the neutral lead is a return path for an electral component, the ground is a path to earth ground.
I have never heard of such requirements in the NEC. Especially about combustion air, why would that be in the NEC?Quote:
For some reason NEC treates a built-on-site home differently that a mfg home. In the end, either structure is basically the same, but according to Google searches NEC states the woodstove frame must be connected to a ground source, bolted to the floor (in case the home is ever relocated), and must use out side fresh air for combustion.
In case I didn't make this distinction earlier, the structure is, at least in the eyes of the county, still a mfg home.
Also, the NEC only makes distinctions with regard to mobile homes. Modular homes are treated the same as stick built homes.
This is what I mean about experience and knowledge. This is a fatally flawed incorrect assumption. One that can kill people and burn down houses.Quote:
The difference between the neutral/ground is the neutral lead is a return path for an electral component, the ground is a path to earth ground.
A neutral is a circuit conductor intended to carry circuit current.
An equipment ground is intended to only carry fault current back to THE SOURCE, not to the earth.
A grounding electrode is intended to dissipate extremely high voltage surges such as lightning.
All three very different things.
Stan,
At the start of my post, I said I was taking literary license. I did that because I do not believe that the OP has ever read or studied the NEC.
So I do apologize for the over simplication and I will make sure I do delute the statement again, but not my guess. I believe the OP is fishing for code compliance information while holding back on necessaryinformation. JMO!
This is basically what I said, only in a different way.
"At the start of my post, I said I was taking literary license. I did that because I do not believe that the OP has ever read or studied the NEC."
Not True, I have the 2011 edition
"So I do apologize for the over simplication and I will make sure I do delute the statement again, but not my guess. I believe the OP is fishing for code compliance information while holding back on necessary information. "
Not really fishing for code compliance here but rather the need (or not) to have a water heater and wood stove flue grounded.
Additionally trying to make sense of the first and third item, "why a mfg house is required to have the w/s grounded and not in a 'tradition house'" and "using fresh air for combustion"
Can you provide the actual code references for these?Quote:
"why a mfg house is required to have the w/s grounded and not in a 'tradition house'" and "using fresh air for combustion"
NFPA 9.3 for starters, Duct systems for all wood or solid fuel burning
Appliances must, at a minimum, comply with the
Requirements of NFPA 89-M (Table 2-3).
Wa state L&I installation checklist extract reads...
3280.809(d) Fireplace/wood or pellet stove is grounded with #8 copper grounding wire or
Equivalent and terminated at each end with an NEC approved grounding device.
A paint penetrating washer shall be installed where connected to frame.
3280.709(g)(1) Combustion air inlet conducts outside air directly into fire chamber and prevents
Hearth droppings onto area below mobile home. (Check that skirting is
Adequately vented (no closable openings)).
3280.709(g)(1) Fireplace/wood or pellet stove is secured to mobile home structure. (Check
Manufacturers installation instructions to see if appliance must be secured to a
Structural member.)
NFPA 9.3? What is the title of this code?
Where did you find this?
Google and Wa state Dept of L&I, their instalation check list answers my questions re: grounding etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by hfcarson
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