My daughter is now 36. I have not seen her since she was 34. Since she moved in with the man whom she later married, it became more and more difficult to see her. She always sought his approval and permission before committing to a visit, whether we would travel the 450 miles to her house, or she would travel to ours.

Her mother-in-law is renowned for her pretentiousness, and my daughter witnessed her treating me very rudely many times. I remained polite, but after several years, I told my daughter that I saw no possibility of a really warm relationship.

Both my husband and I never felt welcome in the house after daughter and husband-to-be moved in together. She asked my opinion on many matters, including whether to insist on postponing the wedding when she had doubts; I always replied only that I would support whatever decision she made. [He told her that if she postponed, he would break off the engagement. He also wanted a prenuptial agreement. I did not judge the relationship at any time.]

When she asked me which wedding dress to choose, I told her to choose the one she really wanted. Instead, she choose the one her mother-in-law insisted on, and several years later burst into tears and said, "I picked the wrong dress."

When my daughter had her first child, she and her husband asked us to leave the house and stay in a motel when she came home from the hospital. We did, but we left town two days later. The day after she came home from the hospital with our second granddaughter, she said her husband wanted to "clear the air." He had been extremely hostile, as had his mother, when present, during the week in which we stayed in the house to babysit the "big" 19-month-old sister. Her husband proceeded to heap a pile of baseless criticisms on me ["When you enter a room, you don't greet everyone properly" and "You didn't greet my mother very warmly when you got to the hospital after the baby was born."]

I had just driven over 30 miles on completely unfamiliar roads at 1:30 a.m. and had to wander around the mostly empty halls of a huge medical complex trying to find the birthing room until I saw them standing in a hallway.

Son-in-law also announced that he was the "ideal son-in-law." During this, my daughter became upset and finally yelled at him that he was not talking about what he had told her he would talk about. I finally ended the conversation without criticizing him and went upstairs to pack. She followed me, crying, and said we would get counseling and "make things alright." She even brought the baby down for a day three weeks later and she and I had one counseling session, after which she sat in the car and bawled "I love you, Mom! We'll do phone counseling and get this right!"
I never saw her or my grandchildren again.

She will not tell me what the problem is. I never criticized her husband and was invariably polite to her mother-in-law, who was rude and would even yell at me and my husband from time to time. I believe her husband/mother-in-law have some degree of personality disorder; in the case of my son-in-law, I would guess he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

For a while, my daughter would make a phone call or send flowers on a holiday, but this year, there was no acknowledgement of Mother's Day. The last time I heard from her was an email in March, telling me she loved me, and she would see how things were when she returned from a one-month vacation with her husband and his mother, grandmother, and sisters. I never heard from her again.

Last week was her birthday. I sent a package with dolls for the girls and a jewelry organizer with some very small gifts and a silver flower ring for my daughter. The card said "If daughters were flowers, I would still pick you." It was very difficult for me to do that, because she has hurt me so deeply it has affected my health and state of mind. I love the person she used to be, but I can't understand why she is shunning me.

She said at one point that she is a different, new person. I don't like, trust, or respect this person. My daughter was a thoughtful, generous, successful, highly social person. She has now cut off one of her best friends because her husband said she had to choose between her friend and him. She has cut me off; her husband has cut off his father. This does not seem healthy to me.

She will absolutely not let me or my husband see our granddaughters. We are missing precious time with them that cannot be recaptured, and we are not young. In our state, grandparents have no visitation rights.

Friends have mostly said I should be MORE aggressive in forcing the relationship, but there is no reasonable way for me to do this. I am so hurt now that I did not hear from her after she received the package that I have decided I can no longer reach out to her again.

I appreciate any and all discussion.

How do I know if my son-in-law has narcissistic personality disorder?

You can recognize this disorder if the person exhibits any one or several of the following symptoms associated with this disorder, but truth be told, any MIL would probably say a son in law would have many of them !


Believing that you're better than others
Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
Exaggerating your achievements or talents
Expecting constant praise and admiration
Believing that you're special and acting accordingly
Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
Taking advantage of others
Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
Being jealous of others
Believing that others are jealous of you
Trouble keeping healthy relationships
Setting unrealistic goals
Being easily hurt and rejected
Having a fragile self-esteem
Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional

I've merged your threads, because they deal on the same issue.

One of the problems we have here is we often deal with only one side of the story. And we may not give the correct advice because of that. So I'm going to read between the lines here. Amateur psych analysis, does no one any good. You are asking about a psych analysis that we ALL suffer to some degree. That you would consider your s-i-l to be mentally handicapped says more about you, than him.

Another thing I picked up on was his saying you don't greet people properly or you treat his mother rudely. I'm sure you may not intend to, but I have a feeling there are some deep resentments going a long way back. Probably on both sides.

Unfortunately, I'm really not sure how to resolve this. I think you really need to take a step back and try to look at things that happened more objectively. One thing I might suggest is for you arrange to get together with the in-laws and see what you can do to get them involved in repairing this breach. Approach them with the explanation that you don't understand what happened that caused the rift and you want to understand and are prepared to do whatever is necessary to repair it.

At times you have to call a sleeping dog a dog. And not pretend it is a cat.

So have you not aired your issues with them, told them that she is being selfish and childish and that she is denying your grandchildren visits with you.

Sorry but about time to call it what it is, stop trying to be nice, and perhaps get it out in the open, may not help anything, but way past time for it.

I was very sorry to read about your situation. I have some expertise in this area and believe your son-in-law and his mother may well suffer from a personality disorder or disorders. Narcissistic disorder, however, does not begin to explain what has been going on here. If your telling of the story is accurate (and I have no reason to doubt you) than I would say that all the classic signs of abuse are present. There may well be no physical abuse, but psychological abuse can be just as damaging.

It seems that your son-in-law is influencing your daughter to break off her most important and closest relationships. The only reason I know of why someone would do this, is to have more power and control over the person. By cutting your daughter off from friends and family, your son-in-law is controlling her life and putting himself in an even more powerful position over her.

I understand how hurt you must feel about the way she has treated you, but try and remain open to her contacting you if she needs to in the future. She may feel trapped in this marriage, especially with two small children, but isn't able to see how her husband is controlling her life as I) she is probably very much in love with him and ii) he is probably a master manipulator.

If you close yourself off to her, and she does come to the point where she breaks away from his control and wants to reach out for help, she needs to know that you are there for her. If her husband suffers from borderline personality disorder (BPD), and I strongly suspect this is the case, no amount of rational discussion with him is likely to change things. You'd have to be pretty good at manipulation yourself in order to make him feel you were on his side, really liked him (people with BPD also may have narcissistic disorder/traits concurrently), and weren't a threat to his marriage. That's a tall order and not likely doable even if you wanted to.

I sincerely hope that your daughter reaches out to you before she becomes more cut off from the people who love her. Unfortunately, people with BPD fear abandonment more than anything, and this is why they try to keep their partners cut off from outside influence. The fear is that if their partner has people in her life who give her something objective to compare the way she is being treated or what her relationship is like with, than she will see how disfunctional and abusive it really is and leave them. By convincing her to cut herself off from friends and family, it also makes it harder for her to leave him if she has a "moment of clarity" because she doesn't have a support system to turn to. She may also feel too embarrassed if she has treated these people badly in the past, e.g. not thanking you for the package/gifts you sent.

If she is/was the type of person you believe you raised, than she has to be feeling badly about this on some level. It is painful to watch and do nothing, but other than letting her know that you are there for her if she needs you, I'm not sure what else you can do. This situation almost seems to call for an intervention of some sort, but if she won't see you or her friends, I can't see how that could be planned. I just wonder if being blunt about her husband's controlling ways and possible psychological issues to her might not get her to open up and maybe admit that all is not perfect in her domestic world. Clearly, trying to be nice and non confrontational has not worked. Your daughter may be fluctuating between believing what her husband is telling her, and what her heart is telling her. She may have in effect been "brainwashed" by him and may even be questioning whether she is the "crazy one". Gaslighting is something else that individuals with BPD excel at, and your daughter would be even more vulnerable with having had two children in the past two years (fatigue, hormone fluctuation, post natal depression, financial and emotional dependency on her husband, etc.)

I am so sorry I can't be of more help and I really wish you and your daughter the best. The bottom line is that the smaller he makes her world, the bigger and more important and indispensable his role in it becomes, i.e. the less likely she will leave him. It seems like you have been hesitant to criticize her choices in the past, and perhaps she might have married him anyway, but sometimes we need to voice our concerns in order to for our loved ones to see they are making a mistake. If she had someone to validate her concerns about his treatment of her and tell her his actions weren't that of a person who really loved her, but that of someone who was being controlling, then perhaps she wouldn't have gone forward with marrying him. I don't mean to imply that this is in any way your fault, but just that it doesn't help to keep trying to sugar coat things. If you get the chance to tell your daughter what you really think of her husband, you may want to go for it. She may be angry now, but you have nothing to lose if she already has cut you off, and everything to gain if she later decides to leave him. She needs to know that she has somebody to turn to, no matter what, if she comes to that point. She needs to know that somebody else sees what is really going on and that she is not the one who is crazy.

I have lived through a situation very similar to the one you describe and I wish I had someone I felt I could turn to who saw him for what he really was, during my rare moments of clarity. It is very easy to be convinced that you are the one with the problem though if you are in an abusive situation with a controlling partner who has cut you off from outside/objective influences. The longer your daughter is cut off from you, the less likely she is to feel she can turn to you if she needs to down the road.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mommya

... My daughter is now 36. When she asked me which wedding dress to choose, I told her to choose the one she really wanted. Instead, she choose the one her mother-in-law insisted on, and several years later burst into tears and said, "I picked the wrong dress." ...

---

Of the entire post, this sticks out for me - several years after the wedding, after having a child, the daughter is crying because she picked the "wrong" wedding dress?

I think there are problems on both sides - daughter and son-in-law.

I also think it's dangerous to diagnose over the Internet - I would say the same thing if this were about a physical health issue. It is foolish (and dangerous) to label people based on a layman's knowledge and/or experience. In this instance I'd be more concerned about seeing "my" daughter and grandchild than which label to pin on my son-in-law.

I am very estranged from a family member who just "can't understand why." Trust me, she knows. I'm not sure that this isn't the case here, and that's the reason for the blog instead of a question.

"Tickle" listed the personality traits. That makes sense. A diagnosis does not.

And I agree with Frchuck - enough dancing around. Either ask and get it straighted out (or not) or let it go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iaskuanswer

I was very sorry to read about your situation. I have some expertise in this area and believe your son-in-law and his mother may well suffer from a personality disorder or disorders. Narcissistic disorder, however, does not begin to explain what has been going on here. If your telling of the story is accurate (and I have no reason to doubt you) than I would say that all the classic signs of abuse are present. There may well be no physical abuse, but psychological abuse can be just as damaging.

It seems that your son-in-law is influencing your daughter to break off her most important and closest relationships. The only reason I know of why someone would do this, is to have more power and control over the person. By cutting your daughter off from friends and family, your son-in-law is controlling her life and putting himself in an even more powerful position over her.

I understand how hurt you must feel about the way she has treated you, but try and remain open to her contacting you if she needs to in the future. She may feel trapped in this marriage, especially with two small children, but isn't able to see how her husband is controlling her life as i) she is probably very much in love with him and ii) he is probably a master manipulator.

If you close yourself off to her, and she does come to the point where she breaks away from his control and wants to reach out for help, she needs to know that you are there for her. If her husband suffers from borderline personality disorder (BPD), and I strongly suspect this is the case, no amount of rational discussion with him is likely to change things. You'd have to be pretty good at manipulation yourself in order to make him feel you were on his side, really liked him (people with BPD also may have narcissistic disorder/traits concurrently), and weren't a threat to his marriage. That's a tall order and not likely doable even if you wanted to.

I sincerely hope that your daughter reaches out to you before she becomes more cut off from the people who love her. Unfortunately, people with BPD fear abandonment more than anything, and this is why they try to keep their partners cut off from outside influence. The fear is that if their partner has people in her life who give her something objective to compare the way she is being treated or what her relationship is like with, than she will see how disfunctional and abusive it really is and leave them. By convincing her to cut herself off from friends and family, it also makes it harder for her to leave him if she has a "moment of clarity" because she doesn't have a support system to turn to. She may also feel too embarrassed if she has treated these people badly in the past, e.g., not thanking you for the package/gifts you sent.

If she is/was the type of person you believe you raised, than she has to be feeling badly about this on some level. It is painful to watch and do nothing, but other than letting her know that you are there for her if she needs you, I'm not sure what else you can do. This situation almost seems to call for an intervention of some sort, but if she won't see you or her friends, I can't see how that could be planned. I just wonder if being blunt about her husband's controlling ways and possible psychological issues to her might not get her to open up and maybe admit that all is not perfect in her domestic world. Clearly, trying to be nice and non confrontational has not worked. Your daughter may be fluctuating between believing what her husband is telling her, and what her heart is telling her. She may have in effect been "brainwashed" by him and may even be questioning whether or not she is the "crazy one". Gaslighting is something else that individuals with BPD excel at, and your daughter would be even more vulnerable with having had two children in the past two years (fatigue, hormone fluctuation, post natal depression, financial and emotional dependency on her husband, etc.)

I am so sorry I can't be of more help and I really wish you and your daughter the best. The bottom line is that the smaller he makes her world, the bigger and more important and indispensable his role in it becomes, i.e., the less likely she will leave him. It seems like you have been hesitant to criticize her choices in the past, and perhaps she might have married him anyway, but sometimes we need to voice our concerns in order to for our loved ones to see they are making a mistake. If she had someone to validate her concerns about his treatment of her and tell her his actions weren't that of a person who really loved her, but that of someone who was being controlling, then perhaps she wouldn't have gone forward with marrying him. I don't mean to imply that this is in any way your fault, but just that it doesn't help to keep trying to sugar coat things. If you get the chance to tell your daughter what you really think of her husband, you may want to go for it. She may be angry now, but you have nothing to lose if she already has cut you off, and everything to gain if she later decides to leave him. She needs to know that she has somebody to turn to, no matter what, if she comes to that point. She needs to know that somebody else sees what is really going on and that she is not the one who is crazy.

I have lived through a situation very similar to the one you describe and I wish I had someone I felt I could turn to who saw him for what he really was, during my rare moments of clarity. It is very easy to be convinced that you are the one with the problem though if you are in an abusive situation with a controlling partner who has cut you off from outside/objective influences. The longer your daughter is cut off from you, the less likely she is to feel she can turn to you if she needs to down the road.

You may want to check out this site: Borderline Personality Disorder - Support group for families and relationship partners. You will find a lot of good information there and message boards where you can read about others' experiences. The message board for Coping With Parents, Relatives, or Inlaws with BPD may be particulary helpful. Don't give up hope, and remember that no matter how it looks, your daughter does love you.

---

I appreciate your reply. While I won't reply to every post individually, you are saying what two psychologists and several people who know my daughter and her husband have already said to me. I feel sure that there is truth in your analysis. I wish there were a way to alleviate my own grief; there isn't a day that passes without my wondering what my grandchildren look like and realizing they have no concept of their grandmother and a very loving grandfather. And then there is my lost daughter. People who view this from the outside might wonder whether I am being accurate or wonder what I am leaving unsaid. It is, at the very least, reassuring to hear from someone who understands the situation and knows that sometimes this happens without provocation. I will continue to try to let her know that I am here if she needs me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mommya

I appreciate your reply. While I won't reply to every post individually, you are saying what two psychologists and several people who know my daughter and her husband have already said to me. I feel sure that there is truth in your analysis. I wish there were a way to alleviate my own grief; there isn't a day that passes without my wondering what my grandchildren look like and realizing they have no concept of their grandmother and a very loving grandfather. And then there is my lost daughter. People who view this from the outside might wonder whether I am being accurate or wonder what I am leaving unsaid. It is, at the very least, reassuring to hear from someone who understands the situation and knows that sometimes this happens without provocation. I will continue to try to let her know that I am here if she needs me.

---

You apparently went in for counselling and the Psychologists diagnosed your daughter's and step son's problem(s).

What was their advice on how to handle the situation? It is a fairly frequent question on AMHD, and this is the first time anyone has actually discussed it with a medical professional.

What is the advice - and I know it varies from person to person, situation to situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Of the entire post, this sticks out for me - several years after the wedding, after having a child, the daughter is crying because she picked the "wrong" wedding dress?

I think there are problems on both sides - daughter and son-in-law.

I also think it's dangerous to diagnose over the Internet - I would say the same thing if this were about a physical health issue. It is foolish (and dangerous) to label people based on a layman's knowledge and/or experience. In this instance I'd be more concerned about seeing "my" daughter and grandchild than which label to pin on my son-in-law.

I am very estranged from a family member who just "can't understand why." Trust me, she knows. I'm not sure that this isn't the case here, and that's the reason for the blog instead of a question.

"Tickle" listed the personality traits. That makes sense. A diagnosis does not.

And I agree with Frchuck - enough dancing around. Either ask and get it straighted out (or not) or let it go.

---

Oh, there is no doubt that there are problems on both sides. But your last sentence, particularly, belies that you have no insight into this situation. And my concern is not about "pinning" this on anyone. It is about how to reestablish a relationship with my daughter while she is still in this very restricted situation. You assume that I have not asked--but I have, many times, and I have entreated her to participate in joint counseling with me. She not only now refuses to do that after suggesting it in the past, she refuses to talk to me and has consistently refused to discuss this in front of any third party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mommya

Oh, there is no doubt that there are problems on both sides. But your last sentence, particularly, belies that you have no insight into this situation. And my concern is not about "pinning" this on anyone. It is about how to reestablish a relationship with my daughter while she is still in this very restricted situation. You assume that I have not asked--but I have, many times, and I have entreated her to participate in joint counseling with me. She not only now refuses to do that after suggesting it in the past, she refuses to talk to me and has consistently refused to discuss this in front of any third party.

---

Yes, my entire post was meant to contradict an assumption that I have no knowledge of these situations. I just don't know that coming up with a diagnosis changes anything.

I never assumed that you didn't ask - in fact, I read your entire blog/question twice. It cannot be easy to have your daughter turn her back on you - and take the grandchldren with her!

Please don't attempt to read meaning into my words. I say what I mean, mean what I say - and so forth.

This might be the one in a million time when one side is 100% correct and the other side is 100% wrong with personality or mental or physical issues involved. I just don't know at this point that that would matter to me. I'd rather be wrong and see my daughter and grandchildren than be right and not see them.

That still doesn't answer the "what should you do" question, and I realize that. My thought was that you were putting all of the blame on the husband (and I don't find a Prenup all that shocking, by the way. Yes, hopefully everyone stays married forever, but that does not happen in real life and people who do not protect their assets, particularly if the financial relationship is one sided, are fools), and I find your daughter crying over chosing the "wrong wedding dress" some years after the wedding to be, well, over emotional.

I also see a obvious dislike of your son-in-law's mother ("Her mother-in-law is renowned for her pretentiousness,. ). I don't know how/why everyone knows this OR why they would discuss it with you (I think family business should stay within a family, not be discussed with other people because word does get back) and that may very well cause problems between your daughter and son-in-law. You'd be amazed at the cast of in-laws I smile to and make nice with!

I find it shocking that a professional psychologist would make such a diagnosis.

Don't get me wrong, I sympathize with your situation. But I can't see how putting mental health labels on anyone will help you expect maybe with how to deal with them. But even that is iffy. Like I said originally, I don't know if there is any answer for you. If your son-in-law and his family does not want to cooperate, and they exert such a level of influence on your daughter, then there may not be anything you can do. As your grand children get older maybe they will ask about you. Maybe you can contact them through social media.

I would continue to send birthday and holiday presents in the meantime.

Is there a cultural disconnect? I get the sense that your sil's family background and culture are not the same as yours.

Yes, there is definitely a difference in culture. Although my SIL came here at age 10, he aggressively identifies with his birth country more strongly than with the US. However, I brought my husband here from a very (very!) different culture when he was 48, and he and I manage our cultural differences, including language, since we did not know each other's languages when we met.
I think the differences between me and my SIL and his mother are more idiosyncratic than cultural. I have worked and traveled to many parts of the world without encountering problems, and have dear friends in many other countries as well as many immigrant friends here. In fact, this is part of the reason that I find it strange that my SIL launched such a diatribe against my social skills. No one else has ever given a hint that I was socially inept, and I have interacted with people at literally every level of society, from peasants to heads of state, without encountering anything like this.
For whatever it's worth, both my husband and I get the strong feeling that we are expected to be much more impressed with SIL and MIL. MIL characteristically introduces herself to people and then immediately adds a professional designation to her introduction. This has puzzled even her own family, who know she has not worked in almost 40 years and probably never filled the role she uses as her "identity." I introduce myself as my daughter's mother, or as a neighbor, or a friend of a friend, etc. If people want to know my professional capacity, I let them ask later in conversation. As for other signs of pretension, it is so overriding that yes, people do talk about it.
In my daughter's own words, vis a vis personality disorder, MIL "doesn't know how to take 'no' for an answer." She starts every sentence with "In my opinion," and there is zero tolerance for of any other point of view.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ScottGem

I find it shocking that a professional psychologist would make such a diagnosis.

Don't get me wrong, I sympathize with your situation. But I can't see how putting mental health labels on anyone will help you expect maybe with how to deal with them. But even that is iffy. Like I said originally, I don't know if there is any answer for you. If your son-in-law and his family does not want to cooperate, and they exert such a level of influence on your daughter, then there may not be anything you can do. As your grand children get older maybe they will ask about you. Maybe you can contact them through social media.

I would continue to send birthday and holiday presents in the meantime.

---

Scott,

My hope is get enough insight to know how to deal with it. Unwavering politeness was not the answer. Overall, I think we are viewed as "lesser beings" that would be better dispatched to oblivion. That does not excuse my daughter's compliance, so I seek understanding of her state of mind in order to extend empathy, which, I admit, under the circumstances, is difficult. To stop caring is not a possible option, I'm afraid. Those who would counsel that can't help me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mommya

That does not excuse my daughter's compliance, so I seek understanding of her state of mind in order to extend empathy

---

I'm thinking Stockholm syndrome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mommya

Yes, there is definitely a difference in culture. Although my SIL came here at age 10, he aggressively identifies with his birth country more strongly than with the US. However, I brought my husband here from a very (very!) different culture when he was 48, and he and I manage our cultural differences, including language, since we did not know each other's languages when we met.
I think the differences between me and my SIL and his mother are more idiosyncratic than cultural. I have worked and traveled to many parts of the world without encountering problems, and have dear friends in many other countries as well as many immigrant friends here. In fact, this is part of the reason that I find it strange that my SIL launched such a diatribe against my social skills. No one else has ever given a hint that I was socially inept, and I have interacted with people at literally every level of society, from peasants to heads of state, without encountering anything like this.
For whatever it's worth, both my husband and I get the strong feeling that we are expected to be much more impressed with SIL and MIL. MIL characteristically introduces herself to people and then immediately adds a professional designation to her introduction. This has puzzled even her own family, who know she has not worked in almost 40 years and probably never filled the role she uses as her "identity." I introduce myself as my daughter's mother, or as a neighbor, or a friend of a friend, etc. If people want to know my professional capacity, I let them ask later in conversation. As for other signs of pretension, it is so overriding that yes, people do talk about it.
In my daughter's own words, vis a vis personality disorder, MIL "doesn't know how to take 'no' for an answer." She starts every sentence with "In my opinion," and there is zero tolerance for of any other point of view.

---

I don't understand why your son's mother is being given so much "credit" for the problem. I certainly see a clash of egos, yours and hers, and a lot of posturing. I don't know why her being pretentious is such a problem for you - I would ignore the woman and trust that her problems are just that, her problems. If she wants to introduce herself as the Queen of England, who cares? I dated a Doctor (and I've posted this) who either introduced himself as Doctor X OR said "I'm John Jones. I'm a Physician." For whatever reason that was important to him. And, again, who cares?

If she wants to introduce herself as “Mary Jones, and I’m an Attorney,” (or whatever), again, who cares? If she has some driving need to “top” everyone else, again, who cares? I see you also posturing, explaining your background, breeding, credentials. Why? This woman makes you feel inferior?

I see a lot of what other people think in all of your posts. I truly hope you aren’t discussing your daughter, her husband, her mother-in-law with people outside of your family. It appears you are, however, from your other posts. This should not be the subject of a survey of personality disorders among your friends and colleagues.

Likewise, if “In my daughter's own words, vis a vis personality disorder, MIL "doesn't know how to take 'no' for an answer." She starts every sentence with "In my opinion," and there is zero tolerance for of any other point of view,” again, who cares? I’d rather have “in my opinion” than “this is how it is” any day.

I’d spend as little time as necessary with her, of course, but would I let her rankle me to the point where I lost my daughter and grandchild? No.

I’m not certain that your criticism of your son-in-law and his family hasn’t driven your daughter away from you. Maybe she got tired of hearing it. I know you don’t like them; I can only imagine what other people think. I might tell you that my husband is a jerk, but you tell someone else he’s a jerk and I’ll be all over you. Did you repeat anything your daughter said or share your opinions about his family with people outside your family?

Was your daughter’s marriage arranged? I am assuming you raised her. Why are you so positive that she can’t make her own choices in life (good, bad, indifferent). I’m assuming she’s a college-educated woman.

And I guess the answer is that you care.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mommya

In my daughter's own words, vis a vis personality disorder, MIL "doesn't know how to take 'no' for an answer." She starts every sentence with "In my opinion," and there is zero tolerance for of any other point of view.

---

See these are the type of things that bother me. Many people are stubborn and intractable. That doesn't mean they have a personality disorder. It can just mean they have a bad personality. I really don't like bandying the issue of some mental defect just because you don't like their personality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

You apparently went in for counselling and the Psychologists diagnosed your daughter's and step son's problem(s).

What was their advice on how to handle the situation? It is a fairly frequent question on AMHD, and this is the first time anyone has actually discussed it with a medical professional.

What is the advice - and I know it varies from person to person, situation to situation.

---

My daughter went with me once, to a psychologist of her choosing, someone she knew. At the end of that session, she was anxious to get on with joint counseling, but something must have happened when she returned home, because she has since then staunchly resisted it. The other two psychologists I mentioned were one that I saw and one family member who did talk to my daughter at length and observed the situation when she and her husband were last here. The one that I saw has said the very same things said by iaskuanswer. The family member concurs. Both see that daughter's personality is immature at this point, and with two small children she is overwhelmed and intent on survival. Both referred to cult-like behavior on her part. Iaskuanswer said "The fear is that if their partner has people in her life who give her something objective to compare the way she is being treated or what her relationship is like with [him]... " Both psychologists said that my presence is intolerable to her because I do that. I am the annoying presence of something at least closer to normalcy. Also: "If she is/was the type of person you believe you raised, than she has to be feeling badly about this on some level. " When she and I were still talking, my daughter frequently apologized and cried. She insisted that I was a wonderful mother and role model in the same sentence as she would criticize me for "inappropriate behavior," (e.g., singing softly outside the door of the room when the baby called out and wouldn't go to sleep. I wasn't allowed to enter the room.) It was on actions such as this that she bases her decision not to see me nor let me see the grandchildren. In fact, when I look back on what was chosen as my worst behavior, I actually feel better about myself.
There are two thoughts about actions. Friends want action--an intervention. This isn't practically feasible, although several have volunteered to call her or write to her. The professionals counsel that I make clear to her that I am available and just try to survive the hurt. I have not been very active in contacting her for the last six months, since I had little success. Having just sent a package, I will back off for a month or so. I expect she will not acknowledge the package. I hope I am wrong. As months, and now years, go by, my hopes of resurrecting any meaningful relationship has faded. I have started on a "book" to leave for my granddaughters, since it is becoming clear that I might never see them again.
Try to imagine the deaths of three of the four most important people in your world, planned and carried out by your own daughter, while she cries and tells you she loves you. The only answer that fits is that she finds herself helpless in her situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

I don't understand why your son's mother is being given so much "credit" for the problem. I certainly see a clash of egos, yours and hers, and a lot of posturing. I don't know why her being pretentious is such a problem for you - I would ignore the woman and trust that her problems are just that, her problems. If she wants to introduce herself as the Queen of England, who cares? I dated a Doctor (and I've posted this) who either introduced himself as Doctor X OR said "I'm John Jones. I'm a Physician." For whatever reason that was important to him. And, again, who cares?

If she wants to introduce herself as “Mary Jones, and I’m an Attorney,” (or whatever), again, who cares? If she has some driving need to “top” everyone else, again, who cares? I see you also posturing, explaining your background, breeding, credentials. Why? This woman makes you feel inferior?

I see a lot of what other people think in all of your posts. I truly hope you aren’t discussing your daughter, her husband, her mother-in-law with people outside of your family. It appears you are, however, from your other posts. This should not be the subject of a survey of personality disorders among your friends and colleagues.

Likewise, if “In my daughter's own words, vis a vis personality disorder, MIL "doesn't know how to take 'no' for an answer." She starts every sentence with "In my opinion," and there is zero tolerance for of any other point of view,” again, who cares? I’d rather have “in my opinion” than “this is how it is” any day.

I’d spend as little time as necessary with her, of course, but would I let her rankle me to the point where I lost my daughter and grandchild? No.

I’m not certain that your criticism of your son-in-law and his family hasn’t driven your daughter away from you. Maybe she got tired of hearing it. I know you don’t like them; I can only imagine what other people think. I might tell you that my husband is a jerk, but you tell someone else he’s a jerk and I’ll be all over you. Did you repeat anything your daughter said or share your opinions about his family with people outside your family?

Was your daughter’s marriage arranged? I am assuming you raised her. Why are you so positive that she can’t make her own choices in life (good, bad, indifferent). I’m assuming she’s a college-educated woman.

And I guess the answer is that you care.

---

I would happily spend little time with MIL, but even though I saw my daughter only a couple days every few months, it was mandated by SIL that his mother always be included in our plans. I did tell my daughter that it would be better to minimize our meetings, but that I would always be polite to MIL, and I was. Unfortunately, SIL did not agree with leaving his mother out of anything, even a weekend when we were visiting.
"In my opinion" translates to "this is how it is." When daughter was in the hospital with granddaughter #2, she gave me instructions to skip #1's bath when MIL finally brought her home. She wanted the child fed and put to bed; bath in the morning. MIL brought #2 home late and exhausted and crying. I thanked her for bringing the baby, and my husband calmed #2 down by taking her to watch the ceiling fan. MIL refused to go home and repeated over and over that in her opinion, the child needed a bath. I told her, very politely, that my instructions from the mom were to feed her and put her down for the night. Morning bath. Everything would be fine. MIL became incensed, pulled out her cellphone, called her son at the hospital, and stood in the middle of the house yelling into the phone in her native language. Then she went out to the car, took out the childseat, and shoved it at me hard enough to cause bruising. She left without a word. My husband and I were only concerned about the baby, and it has been my behavior to follow my daughter's wishes concerning her own household or child. We did and said nothing with any intent to upset MIL. Her hostility was unexplainable. It was this scenario that prompted my daughter to say that MIL doesn't take no for an answer. But never.
The next day, my daughter came home. I asked what she and SIL would like for dinner, and I spent most of the day preparing it. I specifically asked who would be there for dinner, and she said, "I've had enough of his family. I want it to be just us. They'll drop by in the afternoon, but they aren't staying for dinner." However, after SIL brought her home, he made several very ugly comments--to no one in particular, just to the wall--about why I hadn't invited everyone to eat dinner there. At dinner, he pointedly refused to eat anything. I was totally confused. Obviously there was a problem between them, but the following morning was his criticism fest about my manners. When my daughter heard him, she told him to stop, but he didn't. Not wanting to cause more stress with the new baby now at home, we packed up and left.