Hello:

Washington, Colorado and Oregon have measures to legalize pot on their November ballots... What happens to the drug war if one of those states says it's FINE to spark up??

I think Obama (during his second term) will propose to end it. You?

excon

PS> Interestingly, as you might recall, for about 5 minutes recently, Paul Ryan said it was up to the states... Then he changed his mind. Oh, OK.. He didn't change his mind.. After the phone call from Romney, he changed his POLICY.

It's certainly time for a change in thinking Ex perhaps decriminialisation for possession of small quatities for personal use as with tobacco and alcohol and perhaps registering and policing sellers but we can't get away from some of the issues, public health, addiction, associations with crime. These are bigger issues than rights. Ultimately we need to remove all addictive substances from our society. But legalising it and taxing it would certainly help to fix some other problems

It depends on how emotive an issue this is as to whether a President would take a brave decision which might affect his party's support for decades

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Originally Posted by paraclete

but we can't get away from some of the issues, public health, addiction, associations with crime. These are bigger issues than rights.

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Hello clete:

Those are exactly the issues legalization WOULD take care of.. If we treated it like the HEALTH issue it is, instead of the legal issue it isn't, we could DEAL with the health issues. People wouldn't be afraid to come forward when they need help.

In terms of addiction, I don't know ANYBODY who is chomping at the bit to try addictive drugs when and if they become legal. Everybody I know that wants to use drugs, is USING drugs... That said, I'm sure there are SOME idiots out there... But, in the main, I believe there'll be a net REDUCTION in addictive drug use.. One problem with the drug war, is that they'll stick in a fact amongst the lies, and expect people to believe the fact.. But, that fact is, addiction IS as bad as they told us it is... So, I believe that if given the choice between addiction and rehab, MOST addicts would choose rehab.

Finally, if drugs became legal, crime would END. As evidence, I offer our experiment with prohibition... During prohibition, crime was rampant... After we ended prohibition, alcohol crime ended.

Somebody has to step up... Maybe Obama is that guy.

excon

I wouldn't start betting on it yet. Even in California they can't figure out what to do.

Los Angeles Dispensary Owners Fight Ban | Dispensaries Marijuana Blog | THC Finder - Dispensaries - Legal Marijuana Dispensary and Cannabis Clubs at THCFinder

And right now they are making too much from taking they aren't going to be giving that back in anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

I wouldnt start betting on it yet. Even in California they can't figure out what to do.

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Hello again, dad:

Personally, I'm not in favor of the Washington initiative, either... But, that has to do with the way they're proposing to regulate it... Nonetheless, if all three states legalize it, it's going to cause BIG trouble in DC. I believe it would represent a groundswell that the feds won't be able to ignore...

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, dad:

Personally, I'm not in favor of the Washington initiative, either... But, that has to do with the way they're proposing to regulate it... Nonetheless, if all three states legalize it, it's going to cause BIG trouble in DC. I believe it would represent a groundswell that the feds won't be able to ignore...

excon

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Lets hope the domino effect works out as you wish. It is really hard to tell but local police and law enforcement are making so much money and getting cool toys for their local departments from seizures they will be the ones screaming bloody murder.

http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...cial/math.html

I don't know Ex with legalisation comes commercialisation and promotion, this is the great problem preventing more people particularly youth from being added to the list of addicts. It is too simplistic to say all those who want to use drugs are already doing so. Peer groups are part of the problem of recruiting.

We have tried to deal with the problems here both of legal drugs and illegal ones of public awaresness campaigns, restrictions on promotion, interceptions of imports, crimiminalising of manufacture, trafficking, etc. Unless commercialisation is addressed you get nowhere

We have different issues here ex, decriminalisation, and regulation and control. You have a system out of control there, self perpetuating, and you have got to get the snouts out of the trough and into a different trough to bring change. You see this is the problem when you have a political system based on influence and corruption, everything gets skewed and you think this is freedom. As a nation you have more non-free people than any other developed nation, how you can call yourselves a free country I don't know. Truth is you are a police state with more levels of law enforcement than you can poke a stick at, a system out of control. Your war on drugs, war on terror, war on illegals, just creates more law enforcement. The answers are complex but they include forgoing some of those rights for the public good

So you have got to stop sending addicts to jail and start sending them to rehab and community service, be tough on the dealers and crims, but recognise the illness and detox the addicts.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

but local police and law enforcement are making so much money and getting cool toys for their local departments from seizures they will be the ones screaming bloody murder.

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Hello again, dad:

That the cops now make money on the drug war is absolutely disgusting.. That they say we can't close down the prisons because it'll kill jobs is even MORE disgusting than the cops making money...

I hope you find these things as disgusting as I do.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, dad:

That the cops now make money on the drug war is absolutely disgusting.. That they say we can't close down the prisons because it'll kill jobs is even MORE disgusting than the cops making money...

I hope you find these things as disgusting as I do.

excon

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Yes I find it disgusting as well. Most of what happens with seizures is that they take it and start using it even before any trial takes place.

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/29/police-in-north-carolina-patrol-in-a-corvette/


I guess if they can't have it then they just come take it from you.

Gee I thought all the libs liked the expansive Commerce clause definitions. Here is my only thought on the subject . I do not favor legalization and would oppose it in my state. I do not think there should be overly punitive punishment for pot possession . Nationally ? The prohibitionists understood that it would take an amendment to make a national law banning alcohol because of 10th amendment .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I do not think there should be overly punitive punishment for pot possession .

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Hello tom:

Well, what DO you think the appropriate punishment should be for a teenager caught with a joint??

Today, we put him in jail, convict him of a crime, send him to prison, take away his right to vote, take away his ability to get college loans, and then Romney expects him to take responsibility for himself and pull himself up by his bootstraps...

excon

Hello again,

We've been here before... I know we don't agree on the macro level...

What I'd REALLY like to do is discuss the national implications IF ANY or ALL of these three states legalize pot... Or maybe there won't BE any. But, that ain't going to work..

excon

'Gonzales v. Raich 'upheld the Federal laws due to the expansive view of the Commerce Clause . The question will be if the Justice Dept in the next adm. Chooses to uphold the federal law. The Obama Adm has already proven that it will enforce Federal law in California . I have no idea what Romney would do.

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Today, we put him in jail, convict him of a crime, send him to prison, take away his right to vote, take away his ability to get college loans, and then Romney expects him to take responsibility for himself and pull himself up by his bootstraps...

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My State doesn't treat pot smokers that way. I doubt your state does either .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

My State doesn't treat pot smokers that way. I doubt your state does either

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Hello again, tom:

Yes, they do.. They've just got you convinced they don't... I speak from personal experience... By the way, what do you think the cops DO when they do a stop and frisk in NYC?? You think they just throw the pot away and let the perp go?? Really?? Sounds like you're stoned.

If they weren't worried about drugs, WHY do the stop and frisk?

excon

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If they weren't worried about drugs, WHY do the stop and frisk?

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illegal guns . We have a law passed in 1977 that bars the arrest of people for small amts possession unless they are publicly displaying it or smoking it publicly . If they are being arrested during stop and frisk then the cops are violating the law. Now I know it happens... but Ray Kelly this summer warned cops against making low level pot arrests during a stop and frisk.

Tom don't you know that police everywhere have to fill their quota, it's how their performance is judged, so if they are a bit behind nearing the end of the month, they do a little more pull them over and firsk or pick up on a few more traffic violations which of course provides opportunity

By the time the 21st Amendment repealing prohibition in 1933 was adopted , more than a dozen states had already opted out. Maryland never passed a law .New York repealed prohibition in 1923. Eleven states in 1932 repealed their state laws.

Yeah we know it was a bad idea but we keep perpetuating bad ideas

And when did your utopian nation legalize it ?

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

Yes, they do.. They've just got you convinced they don't... I speak from personal experience... By the way, what do you think the cops DO when they do a stop and frisk in NYC??? You think they just throw the pot away and let the perp go??? Really??? Sounds like you're stoned.

If they weren't worried about drugs, WHY do the stop and frisk??

excon

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Dude, they let me go when I was 16. That was 1976. In Texas. In a little podunk town called Canyon.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Dude, they let me go when I was 16. That was 1976. In Texas. In a little podunk town called Canyon.

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Hello Dude:

One experience doesn't indicate a statewide policy... It's a nice story. I'm glad they let you go... But, that doesn't mean they let EVERYBODY go.

excon